IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2017-03-12

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vsteveso here's a fun one, I installed VirtualGL today to do some vnc stuff, and once i rebooted, I now get "cannot open file America/New_york" followed by "INIT: Entering runlevel:5"00:07
jaegersounds like the installer assumed some things, such as you being on a redhat or similar system that uses runlevel 500:08
vsteveoh no00:08
vsteveso I have no idea how deep this damage goes then00:08
jaegerThe runlevel's easy to fix, at least. Check /etc/inittab00:09
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vsteveyeah my init default was set to 500:12
vstevethanks virtualgl00:12
vstevewhy on earth would they do that?00:13
vstevewhy would they even want to?00:13
jaegerbecause runlevel 5 is often used as the "multi-user with X" runlevel00:14
vsteveyeah, but by the same token wouldn't it assume that's already the way "your" system is setup?00:14
jaegerhistorically that wasn't the default00:15
jaegerthey would start in 3 and switch to 5 to start X automatically00:15
vstevewell so you were right, I'm logged in now, so thanks for that00:15
jaegercrux doesn't even use 3 or 500:15
vsteveI'm not sure why it still can't load my locale though00:15
vsteveor...what I assume is my locale00:15
jaegerLooks like timezone, actually00:16
jaeger /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York00:16
vsteveI just replaced it with the files from my laptop, which is working fine00:16
vsteveI assume that's an ok thing to do00:16
vstevewhat's interesting is the error says specifically "cannot open file America/New_york" with a lower case Y00:17
vstevebut all instances of anything timezone/locale related show the Y being capitalized00:17
vstevebut...I tried renaming the files and that didn't help either00:18
vsteveO_o my timezone was given execute permissions00:20
vstevewhat the hell did this do00:20
jaegergrep around in /etc to see where it's being set that way00:20
jaegeror check your bashrc/bash_profile and the like00:20
vsteveyeah, will do00:20
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joacimis it normal for winscp to perform like shit on windows?00:55
joacimscp from openssh works great between os x and crux00:55
joacimbut with winscp, i'm limited to 200 Mbps00:55
joacimmore like 16000:55
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jaegeryeah, winscp kinda sucks01:02
nogagplzI had a similar issue with winscp to osx and linux, turned out it wasn't winscps fault but windows had some stupid power saving setting enabled for my nic which made speeds tank01:06
joacimhmm. i could try that01:08
joacimstill stinks01:10
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jaegerAny useful output if you start it from a terminal?03:58
mechaniputerjaeger: Hasn't crashed again since I started trying that... :P  Figured I'd ask here to see if there was an easy answer.03:59
jaegerfair enough. No idea here04:00
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mechaniputerjaeger: Happened again. Just "segmentation fault". Running with gdb now.04:35
j_vis it generating a core dump?04:43
j_vif so, you could get a backtrace from it04:44
mechaniputerj_v: Nope.04:44
j_vwhat is output of: ulimit -a04:47
j_vor you can: cat /proc/$$/limits | grep 'Max core file size'04:50
mechaniputerj_v: ulimit -a output:
j_vcore files are not enabled, can be set with ulimit -c <core_file_size_max_in_bytes>05:04
j_vor ulimit -c unlimited05:04
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mechaniputerj_v: Yeah, was just reading up on that. Running it in gdb still, has not happened again yet.05:05
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j_vit least running it gdb should give you access to the backtrace05:07
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elderKHey guys, has anyone experienced weird rendering issues when running Java applications?06:38
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: gtkspell: fix dependencies07:27
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: [notify] pidgin: 2.11.0 -> 2.12.0 CVE-2017-2640 Out-of-bounds write when stripping xml07:27
Romsterchinarulezzz, thank you for the heads up i was out, and only read that not long ago.07:28
RomsterelderK, i have clang on my http://crux.ster/zone/07:29
RomsterelderK, i have clang on my
RomsterelderK, nope java is okay here07:30
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chinarulezzzis it just 4 me?07:38
chinarulezzzConnecting to||:443... failed: Connection refused.07:39
chinarulezzz=======> ERROR: Downloading '' failed07:39
j_vI get connection refused also07:40
elderKRomster: Gutted. Java seems to render all kinds of things wrong...07:40
elderKThings only flicker into existence when you resize the window, etc.07:40
chinarulezzzRomster: please, fix gtkspell url07:42
Romsterare you using nvidia?07:43
Romsterthere was a bug with a nvidia driver version regarding java and minecraft07:44
Romsteri thought i did fix it chinarulezzz07:44
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Romsterum okay...07:45
Romsterwhy does sourceforge have to break shit07:46
j_vi just used that one and the md5sum checks out07:46
j_vthey just suck07:46
j_voops, did i say that out loud07:47
elderKRomster: Nope, Intel.07:48
elderKHD Graphics 50007:48
elderK*er, 550007:48
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: gtkspell: fix source url07:48
Romsterfixed ^07:48
Romsterthen i don't know elderK07:48
Romsteri'm doing a build of ports but because i already got the sources...07:49
elderKI'm used to Java being a piece of shit on X11.07:49
elderKWhich is a shame as the logic simualtor I need for school is written in JAva :|07:49
Romsterit's a ram hog but it works for me07:50
Romsterare you using jre or jdk?07:50
Romsteri just use jdk07:50
elderKI figure JRE and JDK would have the same result, right?07:51
elderK:| Gutted.07:53
Romsterdoes other things java work ok?07:53
elderKSome programs do, most don't.07:54
elderKNot unless I tell it to use the OpenGL pipeline.07:54
elderKThen most things work okay.07:54
elderKAnd still others then break.07:54
elderKIt's very frustrating.07:54
Romsteri guess it's related to your intel video?07:54
elderKIt seems there are issues related to D3D w/Java on Windows and IHD5500.08:05
elderKThat doesn't help me all that much, however, as I'm on Nix of course :P08:05
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j_vso frustrating... if a configure script goes to the trouble of using pkg-config to check if a library is installed the why oh why does it just insert it's own idea of the library name and not use 'pkg-config --libs'08:23
tsaopI hope it lets you override that with configure arguments08:25
elderKWhat program, j_v?08:25
tsaopso that if all else fails, you just pass the right paths08:25
j_vicedtea's build harness for openjdk808:28
j_vtsaop: nope, but that would be sensible and what i see many packages do08:29
tsaopwell, that's a beast of its own08:29
tsaoptry building openjdk8 directly08:29
j_vyeah, i bet... ok, i'll stop whining now, if you just pass the cheese08:30
Romsteri thought about building openjdk but i haven't got to that08:47
Romsteris it just me or is the entire google infrastructure slow09:01
j_vlately, it seems to be slow, but i have no proof09:03
tsaopmmh, pretty normal here09:05
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pedjagoogle works fine here, but github is sloooow10:04
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pedjaspeaking of java, has anyone tried this
pedjacertified build of OpenJDK810:12
pedjaand free to redistribute, as opposed to Oracle one.10:14
pedjasome people are using it for Docker images of Java apps10:15
pedjain theory, it should be a drop in replacement for Oracle's jre/jdk10:18
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pedjain practice, no, if you need java to run a desktop application (Zulu JDK/JRE have no JavaFX)11:25
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chinarulezzzFirefox 52 will drop NPAPI. Google Hangouts (video calls) dont work :(12:07
chinarulezzzit would be nice to have firefox-esr in ports.12:08
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pedjaGoogle nuked it in Chrome, so why would FF keep it?12:20
pedjaiirc, Hangouts work in Chrome without the plugin.12:21
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: fossil: update to 2.114:05
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lounge               /quit16:30
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: alsa-lib: updated to version 1.1.317:33
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: alsa-utils: updated to version 1.1.317:33
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.3]: alsa-lib-32: updated to version 1.1.317:33
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timcowchipDST in the USA19:18
timcowchipin case your hwclock is set to localtime19:19
timcowchiplike mine19:19
timcowchipUTC sux with multiboot19:20
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timcowchipmoved all my port distfiles to github19:24
timcowchipbitbucket kept changing their links19:25
tsaopbutbucket is evil19:34
tsaopI just do a git pull to the right branch if it is hosted on bitbucket19:35
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mechaniputerj_v: Regarding my firefox problems: Program terminated with signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. #0  0x00007faeb1aaaeff in raise () from /lib/
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druid_droidits normal to alsa stop working without touching anything ?21:08
jaegerof course not, heh21:09
druid_droidwhat should be done ? make software craved in diamond so it don't change ?21:09
jaegerbroken isn't considered normal21:09
druid_droidI have done traditional (I have no idea of I'm doing) reboot21:10
druid_droidand it seems I have new sound efects XD21:10
druid_droidstrange, I have stop working for 5/6 days... boring as f... need new toys ....21:12
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pedjaLFS has a 'systemd edition' now.22:28
pedjadon't worry, they have a 'legacy' edition, too :)22:30
just_funAs long as there is minimal linux, I sleep well -
john_cephalopodaWhy would anybody want systemd. It's not really great.22:36
pedjaI like Alpine, even though it refuses to use tini as docker-init to shutdown properly.22:37
pedjasome people find it useful22:37
pedjas/some people/all the major distros/22:38
john_cephalopodaI don't really get why making everything more uniform is good.22:39
john_cephalopodaLinux' big strength is, that it has many facets.22:39
pedjait's also one of it's weaknesses (duplicated effort to recreate almost but not the same thing).it all depends.22:42
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pedjathere is no such thing as 'The Linux community'.There are Debian, RH and friends, Gentoo, etc.etc.communities22:46
pedjaand uniformity/standardization is not necessarily a bad thing.22:54
john_cephalopodaA bit of standardisation is surely good.22:55
pedjawell, no one can agree what the value of 'a bit' is, apparently :)22:56
pedjawhere do you draw the line22:56
john_cephalopodaSome standard to have at least some interoperability is a nice thing.22:57
pedjasadly, that discussion is rarely based on technical merits, it seems22:57
john_cephalopodaI just find it scary, that one init system with all its services takes over so many distributions.22:59
just_funwhy is prt-get install rebuild the package, even when there is no need?23:00
john_cephalopodajust_fun: It doesn't here.23:01
john_cephalopodajust_fun: Probably the already built package is outdated.23:02
just_funusing strace, and searching by package name, the first thing is to find the Pkgfile23:03
just_funand then starting pkgmk23:03
just_funIt makes sense to start pkgmk, because it doesn't know about PACKAGE_DIR23:06
john_cephalopodaSomething is VERY wrong with libreoffice.23:09
just_funProbably the mtime on Pkgfile was bigger than pkg. After touching the pkg, it was  just installed.23:09
john_cephalopodaWhy is libreoffice distributed as binary? O_o23:09
Romster Ryzen - The Tech Press Loses The Plot23:10
Romsterbecause it's such a beat to compile23:10
pedjabecause building libreoffice will take an eternity?23:10
john_cephalopodaRomster, pedja : Crux a source-based distro. It should allow me to build it.23:11
john_cephalopodaChromium also takes an eternity to build, yet it is source.23:11
Romsterfeel free to make a libreoffice source port and all it's dependencies23:11
john_cephalopodaI'll try.23:12
pedjagood luck23:12
Romsteri tried once and gave up on that idea.23:12
john_cephalopodaIs it easier to write an own office suite than making a source libreoffice package? If yes, I'll write my own suite ;)23:12
Romsterand spend the next 10 years perfecting your own suite...23:13
just_funLFS says: libreoffice Estimated build time: 36 SBU with parallelism = 8 + download time , chromium 94 SBU23:14
john_cephalopodaRomster: If compiling libreoffice takes ages, I'll be finished before the compilation finishes ;)23:14
Romsteri think i got stuck on dependency hell and didn't even get to libreoffice itself23:15
Romsterbut this was a few years ago i tried.23:15
john_cephalopodaDependency hell... I wonder how that could be solved in a good way.23:15
Romsterlet me know if you find a solution to that23:16
john_cephalopodaProbably Wirth has the answer. Wirth tends to have the answer to everything and anything.23:16
pedja"Software is decelerating faster than hardware is accelerating."23:18
john_cephalopoda"Data expands to fill the space available for storage."23:21
Romsteri dunno23:21
Romsternot all of that is useful data23:22
jaegerI made one a few years back. It worked fine, just wasn't worth the effort to package all the deps in the end23:23
john_cephalopodaSometimes I dream of new infrastructures, that make programming and packaging much simpler.23:25
john_cephalopodaMost of the existing things just seem so flawed.23:25
Romsterin what way23:26
Romsteri know libtool needs to die and pkg-config needs to be used in every project.23:26
pedjajaeger, you have a Mac, right? What's in those dmg files? software with all the dependencies or?23:29
john_cephalopodaRomster: Software grows without a significant addition in functionality. Things take longer and longer to compile. Everything is bloated. Everything needs a lot of dependencies to run.23:30
jaegerpedja: in some cases, I'm sure. I've never really looked into them much23:31
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pedjanever played with Apple gear, apart from occasional iPhone23:33
Romsterthe idea of dependencies is to reduce inventing the wheel when someone else has done the work for you.23:34
pedjabut do you bundle them all when you package them, or depend on the system running the sw to provide them, that is the discussion23:36
Romsteryou let the distro package all the dependencies23:36
pedjatell that to Gitlab :) (they prefer you use their Omnibus installer)23:37
Romsterbut with browsers and office it seems to be easier for the packagers if upstream pulls in all the dependencies and then they apply all there own patches and make it one monolithic mess, so it's easier for distro packagers to just grab the one massive source.23:37
Romsteror binary23:37
pedjapackaging software is a hard problem23:38
Romsteri know this.23:39
pedjaupstream and distro package maintainers have different goals/priorities sometimes23:40
john_cephalopodaSome programming languages are rolling their own packages now.23:40
john_cephalopodaPython does it with PIP, the node.js infrastructure does it with npm.23:41
Romsterthat's fine but they should offer ways to disable that and let the packager choose to do it manually themselfs23:41
pedjasalt has spm :)23:41
Romsternot to forget ruby with gems23:41
Romsterhell rust has something to23:41
john_cephalopodaIt has its good sides.23:42
pedjayeah, frinnst was WTF'ing a lot recently while he worked on rust port :)23:42
Romsterit's a mess it pulls down git trees23:44
Romsterfind for dev work but for stable i don't like it23:44
Romsterme and my crap typing.23:44
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pedjaFF-54 removed the '--disable-rust', so he has to import it into opt at some point23:46
pedjaor switch to ESR23:46
Romsteri know i've been following the #rust channel23:46
Romsterthey are going to rewrite parts in rust to speed it up.23:47
pedjayou code in Rust?23:47
Romsterjust been following the discussion23:47
Romsteri was gonna use rust but it's too cmplicated for me.23:47
pedjashell is sometimes too complicated for me :)23:48
Romsteri keep hitting the shell limitations so i am trying to learn other languages23:48
pedjaI tried Python several times.It just doesn't stick in my brain (low CPU)23:49
john_cephalopodaI use python as calculator :D23:50
Romsteryeah i do a little python23:50
john_cephalopodaI just start the interactive shell and type in what I want to solve.23:51
john_cephalopodaNot doing much more with python.23:51
pedjai use qalc as calculator23:51
john_cephalopodaI am often thinking about rolling an own programming language. Something that is easy to implement, powerful and modular.23:52
Romsterlike perl python ruby?23:53
john_cephalopodaRomster: With "easy to implement", I mean the implementation of the compiler/interpreter.23:53
Romstereh go for it but there are so many languages out there now23:56

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