IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2017-04-10

vsteveI added 'x11' to the services line in rc.conf00:00
ryu0well if you're using a display manager, it'd probably be started by inittab.00:00
vstevehere's the x11 script I added  https://pastebin.com/kstBfGX400:01
ryu0iirc, that's how it worked backed when i used to use sysvinit.00:01
vstevethis script lives in /etc/rc.d/x1100:01
ryu0...00:01
ryu0all this will do is start a X session as root.00:01
vstevewell..for my purposes that might be ok00:02
ryu0...00:02
abenzX as root is never ok for any purpose00:02
vsteveif it's a security reason, it's on an airgapped machine00:02
ryu0The X server itself still runs as root, but nothing else in your session should generally be.00:02
ryu0doesn't matter. security bugs or mistakes happen.00:03
vsteveok, well how should it be run?00:03
ryu0if you must start and login to a session automatically...00:03
ryu0iirc, lightdm can login a user automatically when it starts.00:03
abenzvsteve: why not just install xorg-xdm?00:04
vsteveabenz I don't know what xorg-xdm is :)00:04
abenzah you want to login automatically (no prompts or anything) ?00:04
ryu0thats what it sounded like.00:04
vstevenot...necessarily00:05
abenzhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Xdm_Screenshot.png00:05
vsteveI don't know what's required for what I'm trying to do00:05
ryu0which is what? just starting the GUI at boot?00:05
ryu0if so, any DM should work.00:05
vsteveI have two machines networked only to eachother (doing a proof of concept sort of thing), one of which is a turbovnc server, the other is a client00:05
vsteveit'd be nice if when the server rebooted that it could bring up X and the turbovnc server on itsown00:06
Sitrivsteve: something like XDM, GDM, KDM or Slim will give you an X-based login prompt.  Alternatively you can use su to run icewm as your user from the start-up scripts.00:06
vsteveits own*00:06
cipppi have: c1:2:respawn:/sbin/agetty --noclear -a cippp 38400 tty1 linux00:07
ryu0ok, then maybe you should look into something like Xvnc or w/e. runs a specialized X server.00:07
cipppin /etc/inittab00:07
cipppand: exec xinit -- -quiet vt1 -keeptty -nolisten tcp > ~/.xsession-errors 2>&100:07
cippp.zprofile00:07
cipppa bit more here, but for idea00:07
vsteveI think the turbovnc server is 'vncserver' and acts in place of Xvnc, but likely a similar idea00:08
vstevethe key difference being that turbovnc works with virtualGL which forwards GL like a champ00:09
vsteveXDM looks nice and minimalistic, I'll likely start there when I start looking at login-type stuff00:10
vsteveexec xinit -- -quiet vt1 -keeptty -nolisten tcp > ~/.xsession-errors 2>&1   <--this interests me greatly00:10
cippphttps://dpaste.de/20q500:11
cipppfew lines, put in bashrc or so00:11
vstevewell, so that requires a login, which...is ok I guess, but I still wonder if there's a nonroot way to start X, maybe with 'su someuser' with proper permissions in my x11 script?00:14
cipppi said before, for login00:14
vsteveyeah, if that's the only way to do it, that's the only way00:14
cipppi have: c1:2:respawn:/sbin/agetty --noclear -a cippp 38400 tty1 linux . in /etc/inittab00:15
vsteverighty00:15
vsteveright*00:15
vstevedo all of the services in rc.d get run as root?00:15
cipppsure00:16
vsteveahh, and there's no way around that?00:16
ryu0vsteve: in theory there is, if you use something like sudo to run them as a different user.00:17
ryu0but managing any issues like permissions is up to you.00:17
cipppvsteve: to run services as user ?00:17
cipppwhy ?00:17
ryu0cippp: some people run network services as a special user, like httpd.00:18
cipppput in bash profile00:18
vstevewell the reaction to running x11 as root seems frowned upon, so it'd be nice to run x11 as a service, because it's convenient, so if I could do it as a user and as a service, everybody's happy00:18
*** Introoter has quit IRC00:18
ryu0vsteve: it's the principle of least privilege.00:19
vsteveand also what ryu0 said about httpd, which is far, far more common then what I'm doing00:19
ryu0httpd doesn't need root except to setup its listening sockets for the most part.00:19
ryu0so it should drop privileges asap.00:19
vsteveI get the least privilege thing, and I'd be happy to adhere to that, I've just got things working as root as-is00:21
vsteveideally I'd get all of the permissions stuff hammered out, I just wanted to get to a point where the function I wanted worked first, then worked backwards on the security from there00:22
vsteveso, ryu0, like you said about httpd, I should be able to fire up a service as a user?00:25
vsteveI assume with 'su' in the rc.d script?00:26
cipppvsteve: you can start anything you want after login if you put in you ~/.yourshellprofile00:28
cippp~/.bin/startsomescript.sh; sudo /etc/rc.d/cups start; ...; startx00:29
vstevecorrect, but I'm hoping to do it before login if I can00:30
cipppthis will run only once after login, put in ~/.bashrc, ~/.zshrc and will run every time you open a terminal00:30
cipppah00:30
cipppsu -c00:30
cipppif im remember well00:31
vstevethank you00:31
jaegerok, time to reinstall MATE on the test laptop, woo00:39
cippp:)00:42
*** vsteve has quit IRC00:45
joacimmate is pretty nice i think00:48
joacimhas a lot of the gnome 2 feel that i liked 15 years ago00:48
jaegerI like it pretty well.00:48
jaegerI alternate between MATE and i300:48
joacimi'll probably go the i3 route for my laptop00:49
joacimbut tempted to test mate too00:49
*** SiFuh__ has joined #crux00:50
*** SiFuh has quit IRC00:50
cipppim happy with dwm but i like and gnome3, and mate and xfce are nice00:52
cipppi3, i never know to use it00:53
*** timcowchip has joined #crux00:53
*** moth has quit IRC00:54
joacimgot an x220 on the way, but  tempted to get a 2560p too, since they're only about 100 dollars00:55
joacimdont want to fiddle around with windows too much with a screen that small. mate would be better for my larger screens i think00:57
joacimtho, 15 years ago, i was using a 15" screen that did at most 1024x768 at comfortable refresh rates00:57
timcowchipjoacim: tried lxqt?00:58
joacimno. barely heard about it00:58
timcowchiphttps://github.com/timcowchip/LXQT00:58
timcowchipI know it should be a published repo01:00
timcowchipright above mate on the portdb01:00
timcowchipright below kde4 and kf501:01
timcowchiphttp://lxqt.org/01:03
joacimonly 13 packages in my repository. i guess i'm really content with what's available01:03
joacimsince i only really package what i feel is missing01:04
joacimand i want to use01:04
timcowchipI only have 1101:04
timcowchip40 in the lxqt repo01:04
timcowchipbut that's so I can have a DE01:05
*** SiFuh__ has quit IRC01:47
*** blueness has joined #crux01:48
*** timcowchip has left #crux ("Leaving")02:05
*** Kruppt has quit IRC02:13
*** blueness has quit IRC02:25
*** blueness has joined #crux02:34
*** _________mavric6 has quit IRC02:52
*** chinarulezzz has quit IRC02:52
*** _________mavric6 has joined #crux02:53
*** chinarulezzz has joined #crux02:55
abenzfrinnst: the search is not working in thunderbird again02:57
*** emmett1 has joined #crux03:13
*** blueness has quit IRC03:14
*** blueness has joined #crux03:15
*** SiFuh has joined #crux03:15
*** cippp has quit IRC03:36
*** tilman_ has joined #crux04:04
*** tilman has quit IRC04:07
jaegerhttps://github.com/mhoush/crux-mate updated for MATE 1.1804:08
jaegerThere are undoubtedly things I missed, feel free to report issues04:08
*** Introoter has joined #crux05:16
*** abenz has joined #crux05:36
*** SiFuh_ has quit IRC06:20
*** SiFuh has quit IRC06:20
frinnstdoh06:27
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: thunderbird: unbreak search06:56
*** timcowchip has joined #crux07:02
*** SiFuh has joined #crux07:20
*** john_cephalopoda has joined #crux07:28
*** timcowchip has left #crux ("Leaving")07:38
*** timcowchip has joined #crux07:38
*** timcowchip has left #crux ("Leaving")07:49
frinnstseems there are some other issues with thunderbird too08:19
frinnstif you use lightning08:19
otwieraczI've got a question.08:36
otwieraczIs this possible to display version of port in portdb?08:36
otwieraczhttps://crux.nu/portdb/?a=search&q=i3 ← i am looking at this08:36
otwieraczAnd I need to click on every single pkgfile08:36
otwieraczto examine it's version08:36
frinnstportdb doesnt index that08:37
frinnstunfortunately08:37
frinnstawesome. typed "rm -r .thunderbird" instead of "rm -r thunderbird"08:49
ryu0frinnst: perhaps thunderbird can't handle all the thunder? lol08:50
frinnsti should run btrfs at work :(08:51
frinnstsnapshots ftw08:51
*** blueness has quit IRC09:47
*** Introoter has quit IRC09:48
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.3]: libdrm: update to 2.4.7909:56
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libgphoto2: update to 2.5.1309:57
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: mysql: update to 5.6.3609:57
frinnstubuntu dependency hell \o/09:58
*** parlos has joined #crux10:05
*** emmett1 has quit IRC10:06
frinnst"apt search <string>" will return ~50 results and all irreellevant10:10
*** nogagplz has joined #crux10:11
*** john_cephalopoda has quit IRC10:19
*** Introoter has joined #crux10:27
parlosHello; anybody experimented with PXE based installs of Crux?10:45
*** parlos has quit IRC10:54
*** nwe has quit IRC10:56
*** john_cephalopoda has joined #crux11:02
*** snux has joined #crux11:06
*** blueness has joined #crux11:15
*** SiFuh_ has joined #crux11:18
*** SiFuh has quit IRC11:20
*** blueness has quit IRC11:20
*** blueness has joined #crux11:36
pedjaI've tried netboot.xyz with Crux-3.2.It almost worked :)11:36
pedjaboots fine, can't find the media, or something like that11:37
john_cephalopodaArchlinux has some nice guide to PXE.11:44
*** nwe has joined #crux11:53
*** parlos has joined #crux11:54
*** onodera has joined #crux11:55
*** blueness has quit IRC11:58
*** blueness has joined #crux12:00
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: thunderbird: include lightning again12:31
*** Romster has quit IRC12:46
*** Romster has joined #crux12:47
*** SiFuh_ has quit IRC12:53
*** SiFuh has joined #crux12:54
*** parlos has quit IRC13:08
abenzfrinnst: thanks13:10
*** parlos has joined #crux13:22
*** parlos has quit IRC13:25
*** emmett1 has joined #crux13:28
*** onodera has quit IRC13:35
pedjawhat are the advantages of thunderbird to something like claws-mail?13:36
pedjaOutlook support?13:37
SitriPlugins probably13:44
*** emmett1_ has joined #crux13:46
pedjaclaws has plugins, too ( gpg, html. etc.)13:51
*** emmett1_ has quit IRC13:51
pedjasome are core, some are third party13:52
*** emmett1_ has joined #crux13:52
pedjahtml mail should be taken behind the barn and shot, imho13:53
pedjabroken e-mail clients that top-post by default, too13:55
pedjaonce I asked someone on some ML wth is he top-posting all the time13:59
pedjahis reply was 'Do you know who I am?I work at Sun.Fuck off, peasant.'13:59
pedjaSun imploded some time after that.Karma *is* a bitch, I guess14:01
*** onodera has joined #crux14:11
just_funpedja, top-posting is less painfull on the phone.14:13
just_funDo you know who I am?14:13
john_cephalopodajust_fun: No.14:14
just_funNeither I.14:14
john_cephalopodaWeird.14:14
just_funI'm looking in the mirror and I don't recognize me.14:15
just_funNot sure if it counts.14:15
john_cephalopodaDeep.14:15
just_funACTION renamed to deepest_fun14:18
*** Introoter has quit IRC14:28
*** Introoter has joined #crux14:37
*** blueness has quit IRC15:24
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: bc: update to 1.07.115:39
*** snux has quit IRC15:40
frinnsttop-posting is very much standard in every business circle. I top-post from work too :(15:52
john_cephalopodaWhat's top-posting?15:53
frinnsthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting15:53
john_cephalopodaI have seen Interleaved style a lot on mailing lists. It's very common there, since it is actual discussion and the reply references some text most of the time.15:55
*** onodera has quit IRC15:55
john_cephalopodaMost mail programs do top-posting by default, which makes sense in conversations. Having the question next to the answer helps finding out quickly, what the question was.15:55
john_cephalopodaAnd when I know the question already, I don't want to scroll down to see it.15:57
*** moth has joined #crux16:09
*** onodera has joined #crux16:12
*** emmett1_ has quit IRC16:14
pedjatop-posting doesn't make any sense, it breaks the Q-A-Q-A flow.'OK' as reply on top of untrimmed wall of text is fucking annoying.16:31
pedjabusiness mail might have different requirements (the original message must stay intact)16:32
just_funif is not business, it doesn't matter16:33
just_fun:p16:33
pedjaheh16:33
*** abenz_ has joined #crux16:36
pedjapoor users are confused? they are confused with just about anything tech related.16:39
*** abenz has quit IRC16:40
pedjajust tell them 'it's magic' :)16:40
*** emmett1 has quit IRC16:40
pedjait's 2017, why do I have to keep telling people that no, watching stuff compiling, or installing Kali does not make them l44t hax0rs?16:44
pedjabut that's a whole another rant16:45
pedjaapologies, i get ranty when the Moon is full.or day has 'y' in the name.16:57
rmulll33tness is a spectrum17:05
*** Introoter has quit IRC17:08
pedja'your connection is NOT ipv6 ready'.yeah, yeah, rub it in.17:13
john_cephalopodapedja: <0ḿþ1ł1ŋ6 15 4 TEH 13375 0ŋł¥17:18
pedjais it weird that I had no trouble parsing that?17:19
*** moth has quit IRC17:21
pedjahttps://deis.com/blog/2017/deis-to-join-microsoft/17:24
pedjaMS is taking this container/k8s thing seriously, it seems17:25
pedja2/3 of Azure is used to run a Linux image/container/whatever, btw :)17:27
*** john_cephalopoda has quit IRC18:12
*** john_cephalopoda has joined #crux18:12
*** timcowchip has joined #crux18:13
timcowchiphttp://en.zimagez.com/zimage/cruxwallpaper.php18:24
*** blueness has joined #crux18:26
just_funThat is LXQT?18:26
timcowchipyes18:28
*** tsaop has joined #crux18:30
just_funYou could accessorize the "bike" with some open windows :)18:33
timcowchip:)18:35
just_funhttps://punpun.xyz/ricespo/img/f/unixmafia_1.png18:35
john_cephalopoda"zsh: command not found: hehehe" :D18:36
tsaopI cannot manage to comprehend how I managed to use a 1024 x 768 CRT monitor in the past18:40
tsaopit seems too little now, but is was alright back then18:40
just_fun:) I was a conservative, sticking with 640x480, and cursing websites with 800x600 standards :)18:43
john_cephalopodaI always hear people with two monitors say how they can't believe that one monitor was enough for them once :D18:43
joacimback then, ui elements werent as huge as they are now18:43
tsaopthat's also true18:44
joacimlike when you had a os made when 640x480 was the res most people used, and you got a monitor and graphics card that could do 1024x768x3218:44
jaegerI like two monitors, even if they're small18:44
jaegerthough one is huge now, heh18:44
tsaopI wonder how would it be to have one of those curved 4K monitors18:44
tsaopwith hidpi and all that stuff18:45
john_cephalopodaI got a medium-sized full HD screen. Quite nice. I don't need more.18:48
john_cephalopodaThe only thing that would be nice would be a stand that lets me rotate the screen. That would be extremely useful when writing or reading.18:48
jaegertsaop: I have a curved 3440x1440, I like it better than 4k (which I have for work)18:51
tsaopjaeger: tell me about text on that monitor18:54
tsaopis it crisp clear?18:54
jaegerYeah, it's great. No complaints whatsoever18:58
*** tsaop has quit IRC19:06
*** blueness has quit IRC19:12
*** Introoter has joined #crux19:13
*** blueness has joined #crux19:14
*** timcowchip has left #crux ("Leaving")19:19
*** timcowchip has joined #crux19:47
*** timcowchip has quit IRC19:50
ryu0it's so clear jaeger can see the anti-aliasing effects.19:53
*** timcowchip has joined #crux19:58
*** Guest1284 has joined #crux20:04
*** snux has joined #crux20:05
*** snux has quit IRC20:13
pedjadoes subpixel rendering make any difference on that resolution?20:26
jaegerI haven't really compared. I pretty much leave it alone20:27
pedjaisn't it disabled in opt/freetype?20:28
pedjait's disabled by default, iirc (patent(?) issues)20:29
jaegerI think that patent expired a while back20:29
john_cephalopodaReminds me of dxn/stc.20:30
john_cephalopodaIt's used everywhere but not enabled by default.20:30
john_cephalopodaPatent runs out Oct this year though.20:31
pedjacheck the note at the bottom https://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/reference/ft2-lcd_filtering.html20:31
pedjaCleartype patents, that cover this, expire this year, iirc20:32
frinnstexpired*20:33
pedjanot until 2019, according to Wikipedia.20:36
frinnstah sorry20:36
pedjano need to be, you are partially right.*all* of them should expire by then, but some did expire this year :)20:39
pedjaMS could, in its new found love for open source, just donate them to Linux Foundation or whomever, but I wouldn't hold my breath20:41
pedjait would probably piss off Apple20:42
pedjaI enable that in my freetype port20:43
pedjaACTION braces for black choppers20:43
*** Guest1284 has left #crux ("Leaving")20:44
*** timcowchip has left #crux ("Leaving")20:46
*** abenz__ has joined #crux21:07
*** abenz_ has quit IRC21:07
*** blueness has quit IRC21:56
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg22:05
*** john_cephalopoda has left #crux ("Trees are hiding until the final day.")22:12
crash_haha i miss the show22:18
*** onodera has quit IRC23:13
*** blueness has joined #crux23:15
*** chinarulezzz has quit IRC23:19
*** chinarulezzz has joined #crux23:20
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: gnupg: 2.1.19 -> 2.1.2023:21
*** Introoter has quit IRC23:28
*** vsteve has joined #crux23:43
vstevehow do you guys configure X to do something every time it starts?23:44
vsteveI'm trying to put commands into ~/.Xsession and nothing I do there makes any difference23:44

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.14.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!