IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2017-04-14

pedjawell, webrtc almost works.sometimes.00:17
john_cephalopodaI had webrtc working with ff once. Then it stopped recognizing my camera and mic, all of a sudden.00:18
john_cephalopodaIt works in chrome though.00:18
pedjadoes work for you?00:18
pedjain either FF or Chrome?00:19
john_cephalopodaI can use, a webrtc-based chat service.00:20
john_cephalopodaIf webrtc doesn't work for you at all, you can take a look at
pedjaannoyingly, it works on janus demo pages, sometimes on, once in a blue moon on test.webrtc.org00:22
pedjaI'll test it tomorrow on, when I get a hold of sister's laptop while she is at work :)00:24
pedjadamn, it's late. good night00:24
john_cephalopodaI'll leave, too.00:26
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Romsterwell that happened, cd /usr/ports/ ; for p in *; do ; /usr/sbin/pkg-clen -r; prt-get depinst $p; done i left that going and now it's messed up my database for pkgadd for the first time ever...01:34
Romsterpkgadd: could not synchronize /var/lib/pkg/db.incomplete_transaction: Input/output error01:34
Romsteri must of broke my docker some how... but i don't see how that could do that.01:34
Romsterjaeger, have you done the docker images yet on dockerhub?01:35
Romsteri really want to redo mine on top of that.01:35
Romsteras i got distcc ccache and some other tools in there01:35
jaegerRomster: not yet. need to set up the github commit CI02:01
jaegeryou can pull it from my github repo, though, if you want02:02
Romsteri want to start automating it again and since i exploded my container now is a good time.02:02
Romsterwhere is that again jaeger ?02:02
jaegeractually, I take that back, haven't done a 3.3 image yet :/02:02
jaegerbut it's at
jaegercould always update the 3.2 one to 3.3 with the ISO02:03
Romsterlast time i just manually imported 3.3 into my docker02:03
jaegerMy plan is to set up a CI script that pushes a new github commit when the ISO is updated weekjly02:03
jaegerbut I've run into some problems in the ISO CI that I think are fixed now02:03
jaegerso hopefully will get the docker bit set up soon02:03
Romstersounds good.02:03
jaegeronce that's automated, maybe then the hub folks can make it official02:03
Romsteri'd like to rebase my changes off that. and then do more work on automated builds of all the ports.02:04
Romsteron another note do we have a rss/atom or some other way to get to push out commit messages instead of me poling the site or git itself?02:05
jaegerwhat does cruxbot use?02:05
Romsteri am guessing a git hook?02:05
Romstercruxbot isn't the most reliable bot to depend on. it's not always in here, plus it gets flooded off the network on a large commit bomb.02:06
Romsterim thinking if i can get commit notifications i can automate the building/testing. better than polling the site every hour.02:07
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Romsterthat looks far more follow able than prologics attempt. at the docker creation.02:13
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jaegerthe script to build the image is already made, I just need to write the part that checks if there's a newer ISO and invokes it if so02:23
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Romsteri see that, i am cloning it now. and i'll manually edit it for the new version and build one02:28
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joacimneed to setup the basics like what sleep/hibernate and what happens when i close the lid now02:34
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Romstercrux-3.3-docker-base-image.tar.xz cool i got it jaeger thanks dude.03:22
Romsterdevmapper: Thin Pool has 0 free data blocks which is less than minimum required 163840 free data blocks. Create more free space in thin pool or use dm.min_free_space option to change behavior03:24
Romsteroh that's why i broke my container...03:24
Romsterwell 100GB isn't big enough apparently.03:27
abenzjoacim: x220? thats a nice machine03:38
joacimyeah feels pretty solid03:39
joacimcheap too :)03:39
joacimwas damaged in shipping tho :(03:40
joacimtrying to decide between getting another for parts, or just buy a new lid and bottom casing to replace the cracked pieces03:40
Romsterreturn it as a RA and get it replaced?03:41
joacimalready got a refund :D03:41
joacimebay/gsp took responsibility03:41
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abenza zen based X series would be cool03:43
abenzzen APU that is03:43
abenzso good battery life and decent graphics03:43
joacimi think a zen-based elitebook is more likely03:44
abenzproblem is vendors always cheap out on AMD laptops, its like AMD can't break free from the "budget" mindset of vendors03:44
joacimsince hp have already made elitebooks with apus in the past03:44
joacimi think those elitebooks are the only "nice" laptops with apus that i've seen03:45
abenzI reckon thinkpads have better build quality no03:45
abenzno idea about elitebooks never tested one03:45
joacimchepaer laptops will always be full of compromises tho. even a cheaper lower quality laptop with an i5/i7 can feel slow and crappy03:45
joacimi wouldnt know too much about elitebooks. from what i've seen, accessing the internals is easier on an elitebook, since the whole bottom panel screws off03:46
joacimon thinkpads you have to remove the keyboard and wristrest03:47
jaegerRomster: I use 128GB for mine but I don't have a ton of container images, so it doesn't fill up too quickly03:47
joacimbut thats not too much of a hassle03:47
abenzyes, but with intel you have the options. Ie some vendors make cheap, some make good. AMD always cheap.. or you get a very imbalanced system, like the MSI G series laptop where the APU is a severe bottleneck03:47
abenzX series laptop with ARM cpu and 1 day battery life! That'll be cool!03:48
abenzlol, right there in the link you posted, 4GB RAM, I bet you thats a single dimm. And as you know, APUs use system memory for graphics memory03:49
abenzand since this is a singel DIMM, it'll work in single channel mode03:50
abenzwhich will severely cripple performance03:50
abenzthats what I meant, cheap out03:50
joacimthats just the base model tho03:50
joacimadding another module wont take much time03:50
jaegerI'd really like a thinkpad x1 carbon or asus zenbook 330ua or whatever it is, but they're both really expensive03:51
joacimhavent used the ux330 much03:51
abenzstarting at 1300 USD03:52
joacimdidnt like the ux305 tho, those had so many issues03:52
abenzthe X1 carbon, sold out on lenovos website..03:54
joacimwas looking at the latitude e5470 a while ago. dont know if there are better alternatives, but thats the one i would've bought if i wanted to get a new laptop03:55
joacimhavent looked at the recent lenovos03:55
jaegerRomster: the base docker image for crux 3.3 is larger than 100MB compressed, so can't host it on github directly anymore... and the docker hub doesn't support git-lfs04:27
jaegerMaybe I should trim down the list of things that need to be installed04:29
jaegerthough it wouldn't be quite like a manual install, all of core probably isn't required04:30
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jaegerthat would make it annoying to use for some builds, though, since core deps are simplified04:40
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pedjajaeger, if you are interested, here is my fork
pedjapatches/sanity checks welcome :)10:04
pedjaminimal Crux image is an interesting idea, as a base for a Java or Go app10:06
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pedjaso no need for toolchain10:06
pedjajre is huge, so you win some, you lose some10:13
john_cephalopodaJust use a small forth interpreter ;þ10:16
john_cephalopodaWay better than Java!10:16
pedjawithout gcc and static libs from /usr/lib, image is ~70Mb10:24
pedjafrom ~100Mb10:25
pedjaI wonder if I can make it go below 50Mb10:31
john_cephalopodaUse musl ;þ10:33
john_cephalopodaAnd busybox.10:33
pedjaalpine is very cool, and I use it whenever I can, but for some apps glibc-based distro is required :)10:34
pedjaif I can make Crux Docker image to be ~200Mb, no need for that10:37
pedja100Mb tarball = ~450Mb image, so the target for tarball is 50-ish Mb10:39
pedjawithout breaking the system, of course10:40
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: thunderbird: updated to 52.0.117:54
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timcowchipCouldn't find include 'Xkl-1.0.gir' (search path: '['.', u'gir-1.0', u'/usr/share/gir-1.0', u'/usr/share/gir-1.0', u'/usr/share/gir-1.0']')18:06
timcowchipBuilding '/usr/ports/mate/libmatekbd/libmatekbd#1.18.0-1.pkg.tar.gz' failed18:06
timcowchipjaeger: you mention some things were missing. was that one of them?18:06
timcowchipmaybe I need to install vala18:08
timcowchipcan udisks and udisks2 coexist?18:09
timcowchipI got a "use '-f' to overwrite' error when installing udisks218:09
timcowchipinstalling vala didn't help18:09
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jaegerno idea on the udisks thing but that include stuff means you need to build libxklavier with gobject-introspection support18:27
jaegerso reinstall libxklavier but use the one in the MATE repo instead of the one in opt18:27
jaegerpedja: honestly I don't see much point in using a crux image for minimal stuff like a single app - alpine is probably a better choice for that18:39
jaegerThe use of the crux image to me seems more like for automated package CI18:40
pedjaor as, to a horror of Docker purists, as lightweight VM :)18:40
pedjawith no split packages, and being a source based distro, 400Mb is not that bad for Docker image18:44
pedjaUbuntu is what, 600 :) ?18:44
jaegeryeah, it seems pretty reasonable18:44
timcowchipthanks jaeger18:48
pedjaslimming image based on it should be straightforward using RUN, anyway.18:52
jaegeractually, xz -9 is enough to get it below 100MB :)18:53
frinnstdid you time it? :D18:53
jaegernot so far. Not really concerned with the time, just the size18:53
pedjawhy are hosting tarball on the repo, anyway?18:54
jaegerbecause that's how the hub's automated builds work18:54, no network access?18:55
pedjadidn't know that18:55
jaegerI'm sure there are plenty of images that require network access but the base images seem to be built this way18:55
jaegertake a look at centos, debian, etc., for comparison18:55
timcowchipNo package 'libcanberra-gtk3' found18:57
pedjaSuse is using their OBS18:57
jaegersame deal, use the libcanberra package from the MATE repo18:58
timcowchipok thanks18:58
pedjaalpine has an interesting approach, pull apk from the repos18:59
jaegerok, think I have the update automation thing setup properly now.19:10
jaegerIf you want to test it, feel free to clone and docker build :)19:10
timcowchipno dconf-editor?19:11
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timcowchipI messed up the mate-terminal default profile19:23
timcowchipnow it won't stay open19:23
timcowchipcan't find a config file in ~/19:23
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pedjajaeger, so you build the tarball locally, push it to the repo and that triggers the Docker image rebuild?19:27
pedjasetting '*.xz -binary' would prevent git to try to diff it, iirc19:31
pedjaCDT? so you're 7h behind, and Romster is how many ahead? 8 ? we are truly an international channel19:40
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timcowchip crux-mate20:40
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timcowchipme likey :)20:41
jaegerglad you like it20:45
jaegerpedja: seems that way, yeah20:45
frinnstRemaining backup time :16 h 39 mn 00 s21:04
frinnstnice oversized ups :-)21:04
john_cephalopodaI bet that my git folder is one of the biggest thing on my /home.21:06
frinnstwhat is in your git dir?21:10
jaegerjoacim: I ordered an NCASE M121:10
jaegerI don't really have a plan for it yet but the lead time on them is long, so figured what the heck21:10
frinnstmindless purchases are the most fun!21:14
jaegerI will definitely build something in it :) Just not sure what it'll be yet21:16
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john_cephalopoda39.6 GB of git :D21:21
john_cephalopodaThat's over 1/3rd of my home folder21:21
frinnstyeah but code, or do you just commit random crap to git? :)21:21
john_cephalopoda13.31 GB, now that I removed Unreal Engine sources xD21:23
john_cephalopodaPff, and the biggest thing in my ~/Downloads folder is the ~/Downloads/tor/Downloads folder :D21:35
pedjamy ~ is ~500Gb21:41
pedjamost of are ISO's, traditional VM's and ( perfectly legal) media files21:42
frinnstfredrik@nibbler:~$ sudo du -sh21:43
pedjaI somehow knew you'll do that :)21:43
frinnstmay or may not include snapshots21:43
frinnstfredrik@nibbler:~$ du -shx21:44
joacimjaeger: thought about getting one of those for a long time now21:46
joacimbuild a nice secondary system out of it21:46
pedjafrinnst, and you use btrfs on that 42 Tb system? you are a brave man, my friend21:48
john_cephalopodaI got all my media files as original DVDs in the shelf next to me :D21:52
frinnstits just 3.6tb21:53
frinnstbut a lot of snapshots spanning a month back21:53
frinnstdu doesnt understand that without adding -x21:53
john_cephalopodaI should buy big HDDs, but I don't know what I would do with those xD21:53
frinnstrwxr-xr-x 1 fredrik fredrik 15K apr 13 17:15 daily_2017-04-13_17:17:29/21:53
frinnstdrwxr-xr-x 1 fredrik fredrik 14K apr 14 16:56 daily_2017-04-14_17:17:20/21:53
frinnstdrwxr-xr-x 1 fredrik fredrik 14K mar 22 22:04 weekly_2017-03-22_22:51:22/21:53
pedjaso, same issue as with ZFS21:53
pedjajohn_cephalopoda, just buy them, you'll find something to put on them, trust me :)21:55
pedjaI said the same when I bought my first terabyte disk. now I have 221:56
john_cephalopodapedja: I got about 128 GB used of a 1TB disk.21:57
john_cephalopodaI doubt that I can use much more.21:57
john_cephalopodaI just can't see where I can get more data.21:58
pedjaVM's/docker images add up pretty quickly21:58
john_cephalopodaAh, well, I don't use VMs and docker images.21:58
frinnstjust dont delete anything for a year and see how much you've used21:59
john_cephalopodaIn /, the thing that takes most space are the ports. Especially  wine, thunderbird, firefox, texlive, qt5 and chromium.22:01
john_cephalopodaThose are unlikely to grow much more22:01
john_cephalopoda(A few MB maybe, but not magnitudes bigger)22:02
john_cephalopodaThere's more potential downwards. I got about 6GB of cached flightgear data, that I can't use because I haven't got flightgear any more :D22:03
pedjaideal for me would be 4Tb disk as archive/storage of sorts, 250Gb SSD for /, and another 1Tb hdd so I can make raidz1 zfs pool or LVM RAID for VM/docker/whatever stuff22:06
john_cephalopodaI just wouldn't know what to store :þ22:09
frinnstbtrfs is waiting for you22:09
frinnstand we have candy22:09
john_cephalopodabtrfs sounds cool, but I'd have to somehow back up everything.22:10
frinnstyou need that with everything22:10
pedja "The COW filesystem for Linux that won't eat your data". heh22:10
frinnstdepending on what features you need, btrfs is table22:10
frinnsthell, its even used by qnap for their nas products22:11
frinnston top of md or lvm or something22:11
pedjadefault on Suse, iirc.22:11
pedjaand they engineer their shit22:12
frinnstbtrfs ate my data a few years ago but that was because i didnt rtfm22:12
pedjazypper makes a snapshot before update, so you can roll back easily. cool feature22:13
ryu0btrfs ate my data, and all i got was this lousy tshirt.22:13
pedjaboot environments on Illumos/Solaris/FreeBSD are cool, too22:13
joacimalready pissed off one zfs-guy with my mirrored btrfs drives22:13
pedjaAllan Jude :) ?22:14
joacimnaw some random in a different channel22:14
joacimthinking about getting another pair of 6TB drives so I can do a mirrored stripped setup22:15
pedja'another'? how many do you have?22:15
joacimseagate ofc, to piss off the wd/hgst guys22:15
joacimonly two22:15
john_cephalopodaBut Fujitsu make the best HDDs!22:16
john_cephalopodaTbh, I have to clue what kind of HDDs I am running right now.22:17
pedjaany particular reason behind  'combine different models with same size in the mirror/raid' advice ?22:17
joacim12TB should last me a long time I think. need backups tho, and i'm thinking about moving the server over to omnios + zfs22:18
joacimi dont really want to experiment with something i use every day tho22:18
john_cephalopodaToshiba on this one, apparently.22:18
pedja2 Samsung's here22:18
joacimthese seagate ones are faster, but i dont like how loud they are22:19
frinnstdidnt samsung stop producing disks like 5 years ago?22:19
pedjafrom the dawn of time when Samsung still bothered to make HDD's22:19
joacimhaving them in my bedroom is kinda sucky22:19
joacimbut theyre not too bad if i place something in front of the server22:19
pedjalike a thick brick wall?22:20
joacimright now i just have a box =)22:20
joacimcould just jam my server into my closet, but my c loset is already full of other stuff22:20
jaegerI use ZFS and I still back everything up elsewhere. You should do that no matter what your filesystem is :)22:21
pedja'backups are worthless, restores are priceless', or something22:22
pedjaGitlab knows a thing or two about that22:22
pedjaI never asked you, jaeger, how do you deal with kernel updates and ZFS modules? do you build them as part of the kernel or?22:24
jaegerThey're not really a problem for me, ZFS is only used for my NAS filesystems/mounts, not for the OS root22:24
jaegerYou can build it into the kernel, though22:25
pedjaor use initrd22:25
joacimzfs on linux seems kinda fiddly22:28
jaegerIt used to be. It's pretty simple these days, in my opinion22:28
pedjakernel devs are kind of...what's the word...hostile to it, it seems22:30
joacimi would be too if i had to listen to zfs zealots22:30
joacimthey are kinda annoying at times =)22:30
pedjathat's in the zealots job description22:31
pedjanewspeak term for it is 'evangelist'22:32
jaegerI like it and it works well for me. I don't feel like I have to sell it to others or change their minds about it, though22:32
jaegerUse what you like :)22:32
pedjait's sad how rare that sentiment is :)22:33
joacimjaeger will sit down and have a talk with you if you don't have a proper backup routine tho22:34
pedjausing clue-by-four as a teaching aid22:34
joacimi dont. my "backup" is on the same machine, and writeable my my main user22:36
jaegerZFS will always be a second-class citizen until it has a tool that intentionally corrupts data like btrfs!22:36
jaeger(note in case it wasn't obvious: this is a joke)22:36
joacimcan lose a lot of stuff from accidents, or malicious software =)22:36
SitriFor some reason I'm reminded of some guy who was bragging about how he has never tested his backups22:36
pedjaMurphy loves those22:36
jaegerI also don't mind when people don't have a proper backup routine... I just tell them they're screwed when they lose data  :D22:37
pedjahow do you explain them that it's their fucking fault :) ?22:38
joacimhad a customer tell me she had all her work from school on this dead computer22:38
pedja'you know computers. fix it.'22:38
joacimthe kind with a soldered ssd22:38
joacimofc. she didnt have a backup22:38
joacimshe took it home, managed to get life in it again, came back 2 months later with the same problem22:39
joacimstill hadnt taken any backups22:39
joacimsaw her again last week22:39
joacimthis time she did learn tho =)22:39
pedjathird time is a charm22:39
joacimtbh. the stuff on my server, i don't really care if i lose any of it22:40
joacimit's not a big deal22:40
joacimit's backed up on tpb anyways22:40
joacimit's what i keep on my desktop computer that i want to take care of, and that stuff i have backed up on my server22:40
pedjathat particular site is for sale, iirc22:40
joacimwould like offsite backups too tho22:40
pedjapush for 'backup in the cloud' is annoying if you have a shitty upload22:41
joacimmy clients tell me "it's in the cloud!"22:42
joacimwhen i ask about their backups22:42
joacimi ask them if they remember which account they're backing up to, and if they remember the password22:43
pedjahere comes frinnst with speedtest of his symmetrical gigabit connection22:43
joacimdid the check if any of their data really was backed up22:43
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xckohey I'm trying to set my compilation directory as a tmpfs, but when compiling something large, I get a no space left on device warning. It seems nothing is being written to swap22:50
pedjafrinnst, you might want to update pass to 1.7.122:50
xckoanyone have experience with that?22:50
pedjaxcko, tmpfs is half of RAM by default. how did you set it up?22:54
xckoa line in my fstab: tmpfs /usr/ports/work tmpfs size=1G,gid=<pkgmk group> 0 022:55
pedjaI use to have this in fstab "build /usr/pkgmk/build tmpfs size=2000M,uid=100,gid=100 0  0"22:56
pedjaand it worked for everything apart from Firefox :)22:57
xckoWhat happened with Firefox?22:57
xcko>large compile - did it use swap space at all?22:58
pedjait needs a lot of memory for linking stage, so it always broke22:58
pedjaso I've given up on all tmpfs as build thing23:00
abenzit broke because it ran out of space on the mouted tempfs23:00
abenzhow much ram do u have?23:00
xckoin the wiki for faster compiling it states that after tmpfs is used up, the kernel starts using the swap space23:00
xckoI got 4G23:00
abenzthe other benefit to compiling in tempfs is the wear and tear on the HDD/SDDs23:01
abenzthat is especially the case for a source based distro23:01
abenzwhere you process thousands of files during compiles23:01
abenzyea 4G is too little for a tempfs setup23:01
xckoso it's not unexpected behavior for the kernel not to use swap space as the tmpfs runs out?23:02
abenztmpfs is a RAMdisk23:02
abenzswap is used as RAM, it will be used when RAM runs out23:03
abenzif you make a 2GB ramdisk (tmpfs), then you have 2GB space. once you reach that its done.23:03
xckoperhaps a ramfs would be a solution then, as I understand it, it keeps growing as it's used23:05
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xckoI'll try and compile wine and report back23:22
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xckoah it seems ramfs never swaps23:50
xckops mpd seems to need boost as a dependency23:54

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