IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2017-04-15

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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: password-store: updated to 1.7.100:09
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frinnstif tmpfs swapped it would be kind of pointless :-)00:10
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xckoyeah, though it would still be useful before it did. I previously would use a tmpfs for small ports and unmount it for large ones00:11
xckoThis time I've set tmpfs as larger than my real ram and it seems to be working00:12
xckoplus I think the kernel can access the disk faster through swap than through a fs00:14
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xckodo you guys use MAKEOPTS=num of cores or num cores + 1? (or something else?)00:53
jaegerI tend to use number of cores01:00
xckoI used to until I went through a quick gentoo install and their wiki recommends n+1. honestly don't notice much of a difference01:16
jaegerall of my hardware is reasonably fast so I don't worry too much about it01:19
jaegerif a system has more than 16 cores I don't bother using more than 16 in makes, for what that's worth01:20
xckowow what system do you have that has 16 cores?01:23
jaegerhave a mac pro with 2401:23
xckois that custom? it seems most mac pros are quad core01:25
xckoah I see 12 core with 24 threads01:28
jaeger2x 6-core CPUs01:30
jaeger24 threads, yeah01:31
abenzI use n+1 fwiw01:32
abenznot for makeopts though01:32
abenzI use it when compiling kernel or such01:32
abenzwith that CPU seems to be more utilised than n01:33
joacimi only have a 2x 4 core machine01:40
joacimlga1366 server01:40
joacimi never power it on tho.01:41
jaegerI don't use the mac pro very often, usually just 4 core VMs or such01:42
xckowell set tmpfs to 10G with 4G ram and 8G swap. compiled wine just fine and used swap as needed01:51
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joacimbeen thinking about getting a Z420 or similar as a main computer for a while now01:55
joacimfairly cheap for what they are01:55
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jaegerI used one of those as my workstation at the previous job for a while, it was ok01:56
jaegerHP's UEFI implementations are nuts but otherwise the machine was fine01:56
joacimhow is it nuts?01:56
joacimi've only really looked at the specs. havent actually used one before01:56
jaegerThey're not particularly consistent between product lines at adhering to the UEFI spec01:57
joacimah01:57
jaegermy elitebook was worse, the workstation only took a little fuckery. I can't remember what it was, though, that was like 6 years ago01:57
joacimcould also get a random supermicro or other lga2011 board, but that'll be more expensive i think01:57
jaegerI got both of them working, just took some time to figure out the quirks01:57
jaegerHad Z600, Z620, and Z420 machines there01:58
joacimbut i'll probably get a ryzen once the iommu situation have been sorted, or maybe lga206601:58
joacimthought about getting an elitebook too actually, before i got this x22001:59
joacimthe 2560p is pretty cheap these days01:59
joacimlooks like they might be cheaper than many x220s01:59
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xckoI like the ideas of the eoma68 (I think that's the right string of num and letters)02:01
xckorecyclable and upgradeable arm laptop with open hardware02:05
joacimi like to think that i am frugal about computers02:12
joacimcan use the same one for a long time02:12
joacimbut i spend too much money every month on computer stuff02:12
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nthwyattIn a disk modeling class I had we were taught the maximum throughput for a device could only be obtained if there was always at least one I/O waiting when the previous finished.02:41
nthwyattI apply the same theory to cores and make. n+1 so there is always one task waiting when a core becomes available.02:41
nthwyattThe theory part is that the code path is shorter to start the next task if the kernel is already working the queue.02:42
nthwyattLess code than starting up an idle core when a task finally comes along.02:42
nthwyattThere again we were also taught that in theory theory and practice are the same but in practice theory and practice are different :)02:43
nthwyattI think I should run some tests and see how the Linux kernel behaves since it takes a core to actually dispatch the next runnable task.02:44
nthwyattWhereas as disk is just sitting out there doing nothing.02:45
joacimi come from gentoo, so i've always done the n+1 thing02:46
joacimi don't know how to handle hyperthreading tho02:46
nthwyattYes, I've been wondering about hyperthreading too. But they are just like a core that is running at half the clock speed. So I get screwed with -j1 because it only runs at half speed.02:48
nthwyattIt really showed up when I started a KVM with 3 CPUs on a ht machine. Didn't run much faster than a 2 CPU KVM.02:50
nthwyattSource based distro is a blessing and a curse. I wanted the builds done as fast as possible.02:51
nthwyattBut I dislike binaries because the only choice on problem is revert to previous. With source I can sometimes come up with a patch.02:52
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joacimdmenu stopped showing suggestions as i type03:03
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brian|lfshmmmm I"m not impressed with thunderbired it took all my email from gmaila nd it downlaoded fine but its a big disoranized mess04:14
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frinnstbrian|lfs: i think thats more of a gmail issue than thunderbird11:45
frinnstthunderbird just syncs everything11:46
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lounge`/quit17:23
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vstevequick UUID/fstab question,  If I'm modifying fstab to use UUIDs instead of /dev/sda1 , I just replace the instance of '/dev/sda1' with 'UUID=' and the appropriate UUID, right?17:25
onoderavsteve: that should be correct ye17:26
vstevein otherwords, leaving 'defaults' on that line should be ok?17:26
vsteveahh thank you17:26
vstevedoes the editing stop there or do I need to update grub.conf as well?17:27
onoderayup everything else can stay the same17:27
onoderaI don't use GRUB so I wouldn17:27
onoderat know17:27
vsteveoh...ok....well..sometimes we learn by experimentation, let's see how this reboot goes17:28
onoderahowever if it is possiblle to use UUIDs with GRUB I probably would, just for the sake of consistency17:28
vsteveactually..yeah...I'm not that brave yet, I'm googling around to check for needs between grub and UUIDs17:29
onoderahttps://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/93767/why-cant-i-specify-my-root-fs-with-a-uuid17:29
onoderaseems like it might not be possible, the question is 3 years old though17:29
vstevehuh, well that says I just need to edit the grub.cfg, which I find amusing because the grub people tell you explicitly not to do that17:32
vsteveso, this is interesting, my server rebooted and appears fine17:33
vsteveso dumping the UUID into fstab appears ok17:33
vstevewhat's weird is if I do 'mount' it still shows /dev/sda1 being mounted on /17:33
vsteveshould 'mount' show the UUIDs?17:34
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jaegerthat's probably fine, I suspect it just uses the UUID to find the appropriate device underneath17:42
vstevethat's what I'd hope17:43
vsteverebooting and adding a ton of drives to the primary bank of sata ports should shed some light17:44
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vstevemore curiously...there are some sata 2 ports, and two sata 3 ports, if I install both sata 2 drives (one of which is the boot drive) everything is fine18:07
vsteveif I install any sata 3 drives, it breaks booting and the kernel claims it can't find init18:07
jaegerodd indeed18:08
vsteveI suspect supermicro weirdness18:08
jaegerPerhaps the motherboard enumerates them differently to the kernel in that situation somehow18:08
vsteveright18:09
vsteveI'll swap the cables around and see what it does18:09
vstevebut that messes up my configuration a little18:09
vstevehuh...so....sda and sdb have the same UUID18:13
vsteveis that a side effect of DD'ing one to the other?18:14
jaegeryeah18:14
jaegeryou can change the uuid with tune2fs if it's an ext* filesystem18:15
vsteveit is18:15
jaegeruse uuidgen to make a new one, tune2fs to apply it18:15
vstevetune2fs 1.43.4 (31-Jan-2017) tune2fs: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sdb /dev/sdb contains `DOS/MBR boot sector, extended partition table (last)' data18:17
jaegerdon't change the disk, change the filesystem18:18
vsteveah18:18
vstevethat did the trick, thanks18:18
jaegerno problem18:19
just_funThe uuid for root (/) from fstab is used only the init scripts.18:20
just_funFor lilo I use the PARTUUID returned by blkid command18:21
vsteveI just updated grub on the secondary drive18:24
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vstevewhat's a CTCP version?19:22
vstevealso I put all four drives on the four sata 2 ports...now everything is fine, the two white-presumably faster ports seem to cause problems19:23
vstevecuriously they're all labeled as "SATA-I" regardless of port coloring19:23
vstevebrian - what do you need my CTCP version for?19:24
jaegerIt checks the version of your irc client19:28
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vstevewell yeah19:33
pedjahe does that sometimes, iirc.19:36
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pedjaan interesting thread on r/linux about someone buying a laptop, installing Xubuntu on it, and, since everything works OOTB, he is now bored :)19:42
vsteveha19:43
marakua person like that needs suicide linux19:43
marakuhttps://qntm.org/suicide19:43
vstevewow19:44
vstevehow bold19:44
marakuthere's even a debian/ubuntu package!19:44
vstevehow convenient19:45
pedjasomeone in the thread suggested a swap, his Asus for some Dell which just doesn't want to work properly :)19:45
vstevei'm curious as to what this person's workflow is like, even on my machines when everything "just works" I still have a ton of stuff to do when actually using the devices as intended19:46
pedjapost is not serious, of course, it's great how far Linux has gone19:46
vsteveah yes19:47
vsteveI remember trying to use Suse...3?  on a dual pentium pro19:47
vsteveit was a nightmare19:47
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vsteveit must have been 2000 or 2001?19:49
vsteveI don't miss it19:49
pedjawell, OS install is one thing, and actually using the device is another.Of course you have to adapt it to your workflow19:49
pedjabut OS install should be as painless as possible19:50
vsteveagreed19:50
pedjaand that's his point19:50
pedjaonly the fingerprint reader doesn't work OOTB, but 'I don't care.Who am I, Jason Bourne?'19:51
marakuhave you guys heard of/tried out firejail?19:55
marakuit seems like a pretty nice alternative to putting each application in a separate vm19:56
pedjamaraku, if you want to go full hype, you can run them in docker containers :)19:57
marakuoh no, did you go over to the dark side where jaeger is? :D19:58
pedjaI use whatever works for me :)19:58
marakubut using a docker container for every application seems a little over the top...19:59
marakudo you just not worry about it pedja?20:01
pedjafirejail is interesting, poor man's AppArmor :)20:01
marakubut apparmor is too much effort...20:01
pedjamaraku, worry about what?20:01
maraku(i haven't actually tried it out)20:01
marakui meant about the security of running applications20:02
marakulike firefox/qemu/games20:02
marakuor if you have to run 'untrusted' code, like binaries for proprietary software20:03
pedjaI run qemu/libvirt as a user, and it uses a minimal set of privileges20:04
pedjadocker has seccomp support20:05
pedjauser namespaces is an option, too20:05
marakuhmmm20:07
marakuit seems firejail uses seccomp and user namespaces20:07
pedjaQubes/Sigraph is an interesting concept20:07
pedjathere will always be a compromise between security and usability, depending on the threat model20:09
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pedjaand wetware is the weak spot, not software20:10
pedjaMS says that 'most of the 0days in SB dump are patched'.'most'?20:11
jaegerdon't worry, you're mostly safe20:12
marakuhehe 'mostly safe'20:13
pedjaLinux users shouldn't be smug, either, there are a bunch of exploits for Unix systems, as well :)20:16
pedjaremember, there are a lot more old and un-patched devices facing the Internet than the patched/up to date ones20:18
pedjahell, 40% of servers still haven't patched Heartbleed, by some sources20:20
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joacimbefore i start making my own. anyone got a script that will hibernate the computer when your battery runs low?21:07
brian|lfsPeople really run laptops off of batteries21:08
brian|lfsthis day and age we have too much processor and graphics power21:08
joacimwas thinking about making one for acpid that will check if energy_now is below alert, if it is it checks to see if the battery is discharging or charging. if discharging, it hibernates21:08
jaegermight be able to do it with acpid or something21:09
joacimcan get 6 hours out of this old 6 cell battery21:13
joacimthought about getting the 9 cell, but dont think ill ever need that21:13
marakui do the low battery check with udev joacim21:22
marakuhttps://pub.maraku.xyz/10-battery-check.rules and https://pub.maraku.xyz/battery-check21:24
marakuthe udev rule is triggered on a battery percent change (like from 80-79)21:24
brian|lfswhere do you stick the secodn file battery-check21:25
marakuand then it runs the sh script which checks the battery: warning (notify-send) if it's getting low, and hibernates if the battery is too low21:25
marakui put it in ~/bin21:25
brian|lfsoh ok didn't know about that folder in the home directory21:25
joacimnice. ill look into those21:25
marakui also have a 'sleepd' daemon which allows hibernating/sleeping as a regular user using a fifo file21:25
marakuhttps://pub.maraku.xyz/sleepd21:26
joacimalready got acpid to listen for sleep/hibernate button and closing the lid21:26
brian|lfsso I take it ~/bin isn't created as default?21:28
joacimgotta make it yourself21:30
joacimi tend to use ~/.local/bin21:31
joacimhave to add it to your PATH too21:31
marakujoacim, i just had the problem of wanting the battery checking script to notify-send my user(manu) and at the same time hibernate/sleep without sudo privileges21:31
brian|lfsyou mean by path .bashrc21:31
marakuyeah21:32
marakulike PATH="$PATH;~/bin"21:32
marakuor rather $PATH:~/bin, colon not semicolon21:32
brian|lfslearn soemthing new everything21:32
xckoI'm having a weird issue with what I think is the webkitgtk package, which provides webkit2-gtk4.021:37
xckoI'm building suckless' surf version 2.0 which depends on webkit2-gtk4.021:38
xckoit compiles fine, but when runing there are thousands of messages about failing to create shared memory - permission denied.21:38
xckowhen I run surf as root, no issues21:38
xckoanyone else come across this?21:39
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frinnstxcko: make sure you mount /dev/shm23:08
frinnstshm                     /dev/shm                tmpfs   noexec,nodev,nosuid                             0       023:09
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xckohmm okay thanks23:51
xckoperfect thank you!23:52
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