IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2017-05-06

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joacimbuilding as your day to day user might not be the best idea either. you won't lose your entire system00:35
joacimbut you could lose a lot of personal data if a port is broken (or malicious)00:36
joacimmaking a user like pkgmk as suggested by the wiki is a better idea00:36
jaegerright, but if you use a pkgmk user and configure sudo and fakeroot to run as that user, the log comes out owned by your user00:41
jaegerassuming you call prt-get with your own user, I mean00:43
abenzI installed filezilla and it pulled loads of stuff01:00
abenzshould've stuck with gftp01:00
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john_cephalopodaHmm, question: Wouldn't it be best to run pkgmk as fakeroot by default?
john_cephalopodaSo there would be a pkgmk user with very limited privs.07:21
john_cephalopodaIt would prevent problems when a port does something weird, although having a port from the repo usually means that a .footprint was generated, thus the port was tested.07:23
john_cephalopodaNot sure if the advantages overpower the disadvantages (work needed to implement that).07:24
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abenzjohn_cephalopoda: that wound't be cruxy07:49
abenzits part of the crux ritual to set these kinda things yourself to have that "I did this" rewarding feeling07:49
tilmanjohn_cephalopoda: you can use fakerooted pkgmk without having a dedicated user08:14
tilmanjohn_cephalopoda: in the typical "desktop" situation, you only have one user administering the system anyway. just let them fakeroot pkgmk ..08:15
tilmanhope that made sense :p08:15
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john_cephalopodatilman: A normal user can't fakeroot in /usr/ports, except when you change the privs of that folder.10:07
john_cephalopodatilman: Or can fakeroot also be used as sudo?10:08
tilman /usr/ports is world-readable last time i checked10:11
tilmanas long as the directory where to store the final packages is writable you should be fine10:11
tilmanjohn_cephalopoda: just realized: you need to configure a separate directory where to put the sources in that case10:24
john_cephalopodatilman: I thought about it a little, in the end it doesn't make any security difference.10:28
john_cephalopodaAnd the ports in the repos that are usually used are tested (else they won't have a .footprint), so nothing should happen, while untested ones are usually built by the user in fakeroot.10:28
tilmannot running shit as root is a good idea in general10:29
tilmansigned or unsigned10:29
tilmana dedicated user used to run pkgmk can/should be considered more secure because bugs will only lead to damage that can be done by that user10:32
john_cephalopodatilman: When I run "prt-get depinst firefox" and it has some bad command in the build script, it can potentially delete my whole system, while when it's run as fakeroot it can only delete my own files.10:46
tilmanand when you run fakeroot as a dedicated user ("pkgmk", "buildguy") it can only delete _those_ user's files10:55
tilmanand john's files are safe :)10:55
tilmanthen why do you claim that "it doesn't make any security difference"?11:03
john_cephalopodaWell, on the level I thought on, it didn't.11:04
tilmanstep 1 is using fakeroot to avoid running stuff as uid 011:04
john_cephalopodaI thought about compromised user accounts. When an account can do sudo and is compromised, then it doesn't matter.11:05
tilmanstep 2 is using a dedicated user account (with fakeroot) to avoid running stuff as uid 1000 ;)11:05
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adltest001somebody here?12:07
adltest001This is the Linux Crux channel, correct?12:11
john_cephalopodaadltest001: Yes, the official Crux Linux channel.12:11
just_funYou are correct. 10 points!12:11
john_cephalopodajust_fun: 10? That's too little, it should be like 25 at least.12:12
adltest001Ok, thanks, I never used IRC before12:12
adltest001I would like open a CRUX mirror12:14
adltest001in my datacenter, in Italy.12:14
adltest001I use Crux for several year, for private and professional purposes, and I would like to contribute in some way12:17
adltest001what I have to do to open a new CRUX mirror?12:18
just_funLet's ping some that could answer: frinnst, jaeger, jue, tilman12:19
adltest001thanks, do you think they are connected?12:23
just_funEvery time I go to Italy, at this our, all of you are gone!12:24
just_funI can't find a place to eat :)12:25
just_funat this hour12:25
just_funThe wiki only say to contact one of the developers:
adltest001Thanks, how I can contact them? I found only IRC12:28
adltest001In what place of Italy have you been?12:29
adltest001I'm in Turin12:29
adltest001and in this time you che eat everywhere (more or less)12:29
just_funmirrors related, I think this is the best place to contact them. You could also let them a personal message.12:31
just_funin case they didn't notice :D12:31
adltest001its' possible leave a personal message in IRC?12:32
just_funYes, with a private message. Try one on me.12:32
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adltest00hello just_fun13:02
just_funHi! It didn't worked13:02
adltest00as I feared13:02
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adltest00just_fun, thanks for the test13:13
tilmanadltest00: i'm not working on crux anymore, so i cannot help you out here13:13
adltest00thanks tilman13:16
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just_funAnyone using wayland, with a compositor other than plasma?16:48
pedjawhat other DE works with wayland? Gnome3?16:51
just_funSomething simpler, just a window "manager"16:51
just_funI was talking about a "working" port16:52
just_funweston will be enough16:52
pedjaI am not that interested in wayland, tbh, xorg works just fine for me16:55
just_funHm! I see weston 1.9 (1.5 years old) in two repos. Not sure how I've miss it.16:55
just_funWell, pedja, wayland will be all over you sooner than systemd :)16:56
pedjaif wayland makes logind a hard requirement, as the rumors say16:58
just_fun:o what?16:59
just_funWell, thanks God for elogind.17:00
onoderawell I never wanted to use wayland in the first place17:01
onoderabut that really doesn't surprise me17:01
pedjaGnome depends on it, KDE will, iirc (for weston/wayland)17:03
pedjaand since most major distros ship with it, that's a non-issue for them17:05
pedjait's an issue for us and BSDs :)17:07
pedjano need to hurry, though, xorg is not going anywhere17:08
just_funWell, I might wait a little more...17:10
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ryu0pedja: i'm sure people felt the same way about floppy disks in the 90s. ;)18:31
xveeso, laptop now finds snd_hda_intel as the audio driver, but alsamixer still says no such file or directory. the journey continues18:31
ryu0xvee: tune in next time...18:31
ryu0xvee: did you try running alsamixer as root? normal users need special privileges to configure sound.18:32
xveei did18:32
xveestill no go18:32
ryu0could be a specific subset of intel_snd_hda...18:33
ryu0xvee: does it work with ALSA under any other linux distributions?18:34
xveeyes, it does. its an x220 thinkpad. they're known for working with linux :P18:34
ryu0but you haven't confirmed it personally.18:34
xveei have. i've run multiple distros on here before18:34
ryu0check the devices detected.18:35
ryu0aplay -l18:35
ryu0aplay -L18:36
ryu0if it doesn't detect anything, it means it's some kind of driver issue.18:36
ryu0otherwise it might be a configuration issue.18:36
pedjalspci -k ?18:38
xveeno soundcard found18:38
ryu0ok, that's a start.18:38
xveelspci -k says its using the snd-hda-intel18:38
ryu0kernel version?18:38
ryu0ah, so the latest LTS series.18:38
onoderaaplay -L didn't print anything?18:39
xveediscard all samples or generate zero samples18:39
ryu0xvee: snd_hda_intel, iirc, has a lot of subkinds. maybe you didn't enable your specific variant?18:39
onoderatry alsamixer18:39
onoderaand press f618:39
ryu0onodera: alsamixer doesn't even start from what i understood.18:39
onoderado you have alsa-lib and alsa-utils installed18:39
onoderaor whatever your distros equivalent is18:40
ryu0"please reboot and try again"18:40
xveeyes i do18:40
xveelet me mess around with the kernel a bit18:40
pedjadmesg | grep snd18:40
ryu0xvee: poke around more in the sound configuration.18:40
ryu0xvee: iirc, snd-hda-intel has sub-parts because there's more than one kind of HDA codec.18:41
xveebuild all the codecs!18:41
ryu0if you already know what type you use, you can just toggle that.18:41
ryu0just not usually worth the trouble of optimizing kernels for particular hardware.18:42
pedjaRealtek and Conexant are most common, irc18:42
xveewe have audio!18:44
xveei forgot to enable conexant18:44
ryu0xvee: protip. when you're having hardware specific issues, first check that it's even detected by the system. ;)18:45
ryu0detected on a bus, and/or detected by drivers.18:45
xveenoted. i genuinely thought i had enabled it18:45
ryu0if you're going to use crux, better get used to being your own detective.18:46
xveecrux and i have a love hate relationship18:46
pedjadmesg | grep foo ftw18:46
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onoderaoh lol this is #crux, I thoght I was posting in some other channel for some reason18:51
pedjait will grow on you, xvee18:51
onoderawhat I often do is to gain a nice small kernel is run make localyesconf nad localmodconfig18:52
xveeive had a crux box since 2.7. something ALWAYS goes wrong with it, but i keep coming back18:52
onoderait's disable things you don't use18:52
pedjavmlinuz is 6Mb18:53
xvee5.5mb too high18:53
onoderamines 5.918:54
pedjathat's gzipped, of course, in /boot :)18:56
xveei remember the first time with crux, i tried to see how little ram it could use in a de/wm. i think it was something like 15mb for the entire system18:57
xveestarted from the bottom now we runnin' mate18:57
pedjasome folks here have 16, 32 or more Gb of RAM, and still run i3 or awesome or whatever they're called :)18:59
xveetiling windows. i was a big fam of dwm19:00
pedjathere is an interesting tiling terminal, Tilix. First time I saw something written in D19:01
ryu0xvee: you can change the kernel compression to xz if you want to make it smaller.19:15
xveethe difference will hardly be noticeable19:22
xveeespecially on an ssd19:22
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onoderaI'm trying to build rustc for crux again, but llvm-config --libs --link-shared reports the following:19:36
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onoderadoes anyone know why?19:37
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pedjaonodera, because it's built with DLLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB=ON20:44
onoderaah yeah I fixed it20:44
onoderaI accidentally passes a llvm-shared flag to rustc20:45
onoderaor well the rustc build thingy20:45
pedjafrinnst is beating rust port into submission for a while now, iirc20:46
pedjarequirement for next FF release20:46
onoderathis one should work fairly well, at least it does for me20:47
onoderano longer requires actual root to build it20:47
pedjadoes it build cargo, too?20:47
onoderaI wonder if ff needs cargo though20:48
pedjai think that it does20:49
pedjaI thought cargo is built as part of rust20:50
pedjalike pip-python, npm-nodejs and similar20:51
onoderanah it isn't at least alpine and arch both don't20:52
pedjaif it is dependent on the exact version of rust, why not? that doesn't make much sense20:53
onoderaI'll look into it20:54
pedjait makes sense if cargo can be updated on its own20:54
onoderayeah I don't think there will be people using rustc, but not cargo, especially if firefox depends on both20:54
tilmanACTION uses rust in a project that's built with scons instead of cargo ;>20:56
tilmani know i don't really count though20:56
pedjatilman, in how many languages you code, btw? I am curious :)21:01
tilmanrecently c, c++, python, rust21:02
pedjadamn :)21:03
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tilmanno, and this isn't supposed to be a humble brag21:03
pedjaI see it as a straight answer to straight question :)21:04
pedjafrinnst's 'I can't use all of my 1/1Gbit pipe' is humble brag21:05
tilmanwhat i really like about rust is that's "zero overhead", modern language features and good FFI for c interop21:06
tilmani have this micro controller program that i slowly converted to rust source code module by module21:07
tilmanworked really well21:07
pedjahave you played with go yet?21:07
tilmani have prejudice against garbage collected languages :p21:07
tilmani guess it could replace python in my toolbox21:08
pedjai like that it's single binary.21:09
onoderaI love the go tools most21:09
tilmanso they link the runtime statically?21:09
onoderagofmt, godoc, etc.21:09
onoderayeah they do21:09
tilmanthat's nice for deployment21:09
tilmanthough not so nice for binary sizes :D21:10
onoderayeah that's true21:10
pedjanice for Docker images :)21:10
onoderaI'm porting pkgmk functions to go, I tried a pure go implementation of various decompression commands and that increased the binary size from 3mb to 7 or something21:11
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brian|lfsthis day and age 7mb is small21:12
pedjadocker-compose, packaged using pyinstaller, is ~6Mb21:12
tilmanbrian|lfs: *this* attitude is why software sucks today imo21:13
tilmanhurr durr, we have plenty of resources, we don't need to be frugal :]21:13
brian|lfsI know just busting sorry21:13
onoderaso when will the pkgutils be ported to node.js?21:13
tilmanfuck everything about node.js21:14
pedjaI 'like' how npm install d/l half of the Internet for even the most simple app21:16
onoderathere was this time someone deleted their npm module or whatever it's called21:18
john_cephalopodaElectron is hell.21:18
john_cephalopodaElectron is chrome + node.js, packed to display an app.21:19
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runaphoxHi everybody. Just did something radical.21:20
runaphoxI kinda messed things up with my input drivers for xorg. Thought i would be able to fix it, but i gave up and just reinstalled crux. Yay. But it worked.21:22
pedjadefine 'messed up'21:22
runaphoxWell... My touchpad did not work in X. I tried uninstalling extra drivers (Installed everything in the xorg collection in the CRUX media). Nothing would work. Even though i looked for configs for several input drivers in the Archlinux wiki.21:25
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runaphoxWhen i reinstalled, i only installed the libinput input driver... And Voila!21:26
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pedjajaeger, looks like only containerd has to be updated for docker bump to 17.05.0-ce, runc and libnetwork are the same git commit as for 17.0421:27
onoderayou have to install libunput *and* xorg-xf86-input-libinput21:28
onoderabecause I forgot to install xorg-xf86-input-libinput once I got stuck for a long time21:28
onoderayou might've made the same mistake21:28
runaphoxYep. And also, when i tried to update, accidentally i kind of, you know, installed everything starting by xorg-xf86-input...21:29
jaegerpedja: noted; haven't had time to look at it yet21:30
pedjaso far, no issues21:30
pedjamulti-stage build is nice, but I haven't played with it yet21:31
jaegerwas out of town for a few hours today, took my nephew to see Big Brutus :D21:31
runaphoxI have everything working now. Doing a sysup. I hope i don't mess things this time.21:31
pedjayou'll never learn anything if you don't ;)21:32
brian|lfsBoth MP3 encoding and decoding will soon be officially supported in Fedora. Last November the patents covering MP3 decoding expired and Fedora Workstation enabled MP3 decoding via the mpg123 library and GStreamer... The MP3 codec and Open Source have had a troubled relationship over the past decade, especially within the United States. Historically, due to licensing issues Fedora has been unable to include MP3 decoding or encoding within the base21:32
brian|lfsdistribution... A couple of weeks ago IIS Fraunhofer and Technicolor terminated their licensing program and just a few days ago Red Hat Legal provided the permission to ship MP3 encoding in Fedora.21:32
brian|lfsinteresting do we ship mp3 encoding enabled as default21:32
pedjalame is in opt since the dawn of time21:33
brian|lfsWell that is very lame lol21:34
brian|lfscouldn't resist21:34
tilmanACTION just remembered he downloaded the lame sources in 99 and didn't know WTF to do with those foo.c,v files21:34
pedjalame is awesome, still one of the best mp3 encoders21:35
pedjaI re-encoded most of my (totally legal) flac's to opus21:38
runaphoxCompiling llvm is such a pain...21:52
runaphoxIt takes like, forever. Not to mention firefox.21:53
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runaphoxHas anyone in here achieved, or at least tried, to get a musl-libc system going on CRUX?22:06
runaphoxOr even considered it?22:07
Larry_The_Cowrunaphox: do you saturate your cores with j flags22:17
Larry_The_Cowthat'll help while compiling big packages22:18
runaphoxYep. -j3. I have two cores. Just following gentoo's "rule of thumb" of number of cores plus one.22:20
pedjarunaphox, here you go
pedjad/l and pkgadd :)22:42
pedjathey are all built in a Docker container by one of the Crux developers22:44
runaphoxWowowowow. Going to check that right away!22:45
pedjathank Romster, he does all the work :)22:46
runaphoxThat precompiled ghc is calling me... I feel like i'm going to the dark side, you know, installing those precompiled packages. Even so, i can compile it myself anytime.22:53
runaphoxI'm really liking CRUX thus far. It's like it is so simple there is not much room for problems. And the name is cool.22:58
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brian|lfswelcome aboard runaphox23:55

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