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| joacim | building as your day to day user might not be the best idea either. you won't lose your entire system | 00:35 |
|---|---|---|
| joacim | but you could lose a lot of personal data if a port is broken (or malicious) | 00:36 |
| joacim | making a user like pkgmk as suggested by the wiki is a better idea | 00:36 |
| jaeger | right, but if you use a pkgmk user and configure sudo and fakeroot to run as that user, the log comes out owned by your user | 00:41 |
| jaeger | assuming you call prt-get with your own user, I mean | 00:43 |
| abenz | sigh | 01:00 |
| abenz | I installed filezilla and it pulled loads of stuff | 01:00 |
| abenz | should've stuck with gftp | 01:00 |
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| john_cephalopoda | Hmm, question: Wouldn't it be best to run pkgmk as fakeroot by default? https://crux.nu/Wiki/FakerootPorts | 07:20 |
| john_cephalopoda | So there would be a pkgmk user with very limited privs. | 07:21 |
| john_cephalopoda | It would prevent problems when a port does something weird, although having a port from the repo usually means that a .footprint was generated, thus the port was tested. | 07:23 |
| john_cephalopoda | Not sure if the advantages overpower the disadvantages (work needed to implement that). | 07:24 |
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| abenz | john_cephalopoda: that wound't be cruxy | 07:49 |
| abenz | its part of the crux ritual to set these kinda things yourself to have that "I did this" rewarding feeling | 07:49 |
| tilman | john_cephalopoda: you can use fakerooted pkgmk without having a dedicated user | 08:14 |
| tilman | john_cephalopoda: in the typical "desktop" situation, you only have one user administering the system anyway. just let them fakeroot pkgmk .. | 08:15 |
| tilman | hope that made sense :p | 08:15 |
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| john_cephalopoda | tilman: A normal user can't fakeroot in /usr/ports, except when you change the privs of that folder. | 10:07 |
| john_cephalopoda | tilman: Or can fakeroot also be used as sudo? | 10:08 |
| tilman | /usr/ports is world-readable last time i checked | 10:11 |
| tilman | as long as the directory where to store the final packages is writable you should be fine | 10:11 |
| tilman | ... | 10:24 |
| tilman | john_cephalopoda: just realized: you need to configure a separate directory where to put the sources in that case | 10:24 |
| john_cephalopoda | tilman: I thought about it a little, in the end it doesn't make any security difference. | 10:28 |
| john_cephalopoda | And the ports in the repos that are usually used are tested (else they won't have a .footprint), so nothing should happen, while untested ones are usually built by the user in fakeroot. | 10:28 |
| tilman | not running shit as root is a good idea in general | 10:29 |
| tilman | signed or unsigned | 10:29 |
| tilman | a dedicated user used to run pkgmk can/should be considered more secure because bugs will only lead to damage that can be done by that user | 10:32 |
| john_cephalopoda | tilman: When I run "prt-get depinst firefox" and it has some bad command in the build script, it can potentially delete my whole system, while when it's run as fakeroot it can only delete my own files. | 10:46 |
| tilman | yes | 10:54 |
| tilman | and when you run fakeroot as a dedicated user ("pkgmk", "buildguy") it can only delete _those_ user's files | 10:55 |
| tilman | and john's files are safe :) | 10:55 |
| john_cephalopoda | Exactly. | 10:56 |
| tilman | then why do you claim that "it doesn't make any security difference"? | 11:03 |
| john_cephalopoda | Well, on the level I thought on, it didn't. | 11:04 |
| tilman | step 1 is using fakeroot to avoid running stuff as uid 0 | 11:04 |
| john_cephalopoda | I thought about compromised user accounts. When an account can do sudo and is compromised, then it doesn't matter. | 11:05 |
| tilman | step 2 is using a dedicated user account (with fakeroot) to avoid running stuff as uid 1000 ;) | 11:05 |
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| adltest001 | hello | 12:03 |
| adltest001 | somebody here? | 12:07 |
| just_fun | zzz | 12:08 |
| adltest001 | This is the Linux Crux channel, correct? | 12:11 |
| john_cephalopoda | adltest001: Yes, the official Crux Linux channel. | 12:11 |
| just_fun | You are correct. 10 points! | 12:11 |
| john_cephalopoda | just_fun: 10? That's too little, it should be like 25 at least. | 12:12 |
| adltest001 | Ok, thanks, I never used IRC before | 12:12 |
| adltest001 | I would like open a CRUX mirror | 12:14 |
| adltest001 | in my datacenter, in Italy. | 12:14 |
| just_fun | nice | 12:15 |
| adltest001 | I use Crux for several year, for private and professional purposes, and I would like to contribute in some way | 12:17 |
| adltest001 | what I have to do to open a new CRUX mirror? | 12:18 |
| just_fun | Let's ping some that could answer: frinnst, jaeger, jue, tilman | 12:19 |
| adltest001 | thanks, do you think they are connected? | 12:23 |
| just_fun | lol | 12:24 |
| just_fun | Every time I go to Italy, at this our, all of you are gone! | 12:24 |
| just_fun | I can't find a place to eat :) | 12:25 |
| just_fun | at this hour | 12:25 |
| just_fun | The wiki only say to contact one of the developers: https://crux.nu/Main/About | 12:26 |
| adltest001 | Thanks, how I can contact them? I found only IRC | 12:28 |
| adltest001 | In what place of Italy have you been? | 12:29 |
| adltest001 | I'm in Turin | 12:29 |
| adltest001 | and in this time you che eat everywhere (more or less) | 12:29 |
| just_fun | mirrors related, I think this is the best place to contact them. You could also let them a personal message. | 12:31 |
| just_fun | in case they didn't notice :D | 12:31 |
| adltest001 | its' possible leave a personal message in IRC? | 12:32 |
| just_fun | Yes, with a private message. Try one on me. | 12:32 |
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| adltest00 | hello just_fun | 13:02 |
| just_fun | Hi! It didn't worked | 13:02 |
| adltest00 | as I feared | 13:02 |
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| adltest00 | just_fun, thanks for the test | 13:13 |
| tilman | adltest00: i'm not working on crux anymore, so i cannot help you out here | 13:13 |
| adltest00 | thanks tilman | 13:16 |
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| just_fun | Anyone using wayland, with a compositor other than plasma? | 16:48 |
| pedja | what other DE works with wayland? Gnome3? | 16:51 |
| just_fun | Something simpler, just a window "manager" | 16:51 |
| just_fun | I was talking about a "working" port | 16:52 |
| just_fun | weston will be enough | 16:52 |
| pedja | I am not that interested in wayland, tbh, xorg works just fine for me | 16:55 |
| just_fun | Hm! I see weston 1.9 (1.5 years old) in two repos. Not sure how I've miss it. | 16:55 |
| just_fun | Well, pedja, wayland will be all over you sooner than systemd :) | 16:56 |
| pedja | if wayland makes logind a hard requirement, as the rumors say | 16:58 |
| just_fun | :o what? | 16:59 |
| just_fun | Well, thanks God for elogind. | 17:00 |
| onodera | well I never wanted to use wayland in the first place | 17:01 |
| onodera | but that really doesn't surprise me | 17:01 |
| pedja | Gnome depends on it, KDE will, iirc (for weston/wayland) | 17:03 |
| pedja | and since most major distros ship with it, that's a non-issue for them | 17:05 |
| pedja | it's an issue for us and BSDs :) | 17:07 |
| pedja | no need to hurry, though, xorg is not going anywhere | 17:08 |
| just_fun | Well, I might wait a little more... | 17:10 |
| just_fun | longer | 17:49 |
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| ryu0 | pedja: i'm sure people felt the same way about floppy disks in the 90s. ;) | 18:31 |
| xvee | so, laptop now finds snd_hda_intel as the audio driver, but alsamixer still says no such file or directory. the journey continues | 18:31 |
| ryu0 | xvee: tune in next time... | 18:31 |
| ryu0 | xvee: did you try running alsamixer as root? normal users need special privileges to configure sound. | 18:32 |
| xvee | i did | 18:32 |
| xvee | still no go | 18:32 |
| ryu0 | could be a specific subset of intel_snd_hda... | 18:33 |
| ryu0 | hm. | 18:33 |
| ryu0 | xvee: does it work with ALSA under any other linux distributions? | 18:34 |
| xvee | yes, it does. its an x220 thinkpad. they're known for working with linux :P | 18:34 |
| ryu0 | but you haven't confirmed it personally. | 18:34 |
| xvee | i have. i've run multiple distros on here before | 18:34 |
| ryu0 | ok. | 18:35 |
| ryu0 | check the devices detected. | 18:35 |
| ryu0 | aplay -l | 18:35 |
| ryu0 | aplay -L | 18:36 |
| ryu0 | if it doesn't detect anything, it means it's some kind of driver issue. | 18:36 |
| ryu0 | otherwise it might be a configuration issue. | 18:36 |
| pedja | lspci -k ? | 18:38 |
| xvee | no soundcard found | 18:38 |
| ryu0 | ok, that's a start. | 18:38 |
| xvee | lspci -k says its using the snd-hda-intel | 18:38 |
| ryu0 | kernel version? | 18:38 |
| xvee | 4.9.6 | 18:38 |
| ryu0 | ah, so the latest LTS series. | 18:38 |
| ryu0 | strange. | 18:39 |
| onodera | aplay -L didn't print anything? | 18:39 |
| xvee | null | 18:39 |
| xvee | discard all samples or generate zero samples | 18:39 |
| ryu0 | xvee: snd_hda_intel, iirc, has a lot of subkinds. maybe you didn't enable your specific variant? | 18:39 |
| onodera | try alsamixer | 18:39 |
| onodera | and press f6 | 18:39 |
| ryu0 | onodera: alsamixer doesn't even start from what i understood. | 18:39 |
| onodera | do you have alsa-lib and alsa-utils installed | 18:39 |
| ryu0 | ... | 18:40 |
| onodera | or whatever your distros equivalent is | 18:40 |
| ryu0 | "please reboot and try again" | 18:40 |
| xvee | yes i do | 18:40 |
| xvee | let me mess around with the kernel a bit | 18:40 |
| pedja | dmesg | grep snd | 18:40 |
| ryu0 | xvee: poke around more in the sound configuration. | 18:40 |
| ryu0 | xvee: iirc, snd-hda-intel has sub-parts because there's more than one kind of HDA codec. | 18:41 |
| pedja | yup | 18:41 |
| xvee | build all the codecs! | 18:41 |
| ryu0 | well. | 18:41 |
| ryu0 | if you already know what type you use, you can just toggle that. | 18:41 |
| ryu0 | just not usually worth the trouble of optimizing kernels for particular hardware. | 18:42 |
| pedja | Realtek and Conexant are most common, irc | 18:42 |
| xvee | we have audio! | 18:44 |
| xvee | i forgot to enable conexant | 18:44 |
| ryu0 | xvee: protip. when you're having hardware specific issues, first check that it's even detected by the system. ;) | 18:45 |
| ryu0 | detected on a bus, and/or detected by drivers. | 18:45 |
| xvee | noted. i genuinely thought i had enabled it | 18:45 |
| ryu0 | if you're going to use crux, better get used to being your own detective. | 18:46 |
| xvee | crux and i have a love hate relationship | 18:46 |
| pedja | dmesg | grep foo ftw | 18:46 |
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| onodera | oh lol this is #crux, I thoght I was posting in some other channel for some reason | 18:51 |
| pedja | it will grow on you, xvee | 18:51 |
| onodera | what I often do is to gain a nice small kernel is run make localyesconf nad localmodconfig | 18:52 |
| xvee | ive had a crux box since 2.7. something ALWAYS goes wrong with it, but i keep coming back | 18:52 |
| onodera | it's disable things you don't use | 18:52 |
| pedja | vmlinuz is 6Mb | 18:53 |
| xvee | 5.5mb too high | 18:53 |
| onodera | mines 5.9 | 18:54 |
| pedja | that's gzipped, of course, in /boot :) | 18:56 |
| xvee | i remember the first time with crux, i tried to see how little ram it could use in a de/wm. i think it was something like 15mb for the entire system | 18:57 |
| xvee | started from the bottom now we runnin' mate | 18:57 |
| pedja | some folks here have 16, 32 or more Gb of RAM, and still run i3 or awesome or whatever they're called :) | 18:59 |
| xvee | tiling windows. i was a big fam of dwm | 19:00 |
| xvee | fan* | 19:01 |
| pedja | there is an interesting tiling terminal, Tilix. First time I saw something written in D | 19:01 |
| ryu0 | xvee: you can change the kernel compression to xz if you want to make it smaller. | 19:15 |
| xvee | the difference will hardly be noticeable | 19:22 |
| xvee | especially on an ssd | 19:22 |
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| onodera | I'm trying to build rustc for crux again, but llvm-config --libs --link-shared reports the following: | 19:36 |
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| onodera | https://sr.ht/wPzS.txt | 19:37 |
| onodera | does anyone know why? | 19:37 |
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| pedja | onodera, because it's built with DLLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB=ON | 20:44 |
| onodera | ah yeah I fixed it | 20:44 |
| onodera | I accidentally passes a llvm-shared flag to rustc | 20:45 |
| onodera | or well the rustc build thingy | 20:45 |
| pedja | frinnst is beating rust port into submission for a while now, iirc | 20:46 |
| pedja | requirement for next FF release | 20:46 |
| onodera | https://github.com/6c37/crux-ports/tree/3.3/rustc | 20:47 |
| onodera | this one should work fairly well, at least it does for me | 20:47 |
| onodera | no longer requires actual root to build it | 20:47 |
| pedja | does it build cargo, too? | 20:47 |
| onodera | nope | 20:48 |
| onodera | I wonder if ff needs cargo though | 20:48 |
| pedja | i think that it does | 20:49 |
| pedja | I thought cargo is built as part of rust | 20:50 |
| pedja | like pip-python, npm-nodejs and similar | 20:51 |
| onodera | nah it isn't at least alpine and arch both don't | 20:52 |
| pedja | if it is dependent on the exact version of rust, why not? that doesn't make much sense | 20:53 |
| onodera | I'll look into it | 20:54 |
| pedja | it makes sense if cargo can be updated on its own | 20:54 |
| onodera | yeah I don't think there will be people using rustc, but not cargo, especially if firefox depends on both | 20:54 |
| tilman | ACTION uses rust in a project that's built with scons instead of cargo ;> | 20:56 |
| tilman | i know i don't really count though | 20:56 |
| pedja | tilman, in how many languages you code, btw? I am curious :) | 21:01 |
| tilman | recently c, c++, python, rust | 21:02 |
| pedja | damn :) | 21:03 |
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| tilman | no, and this isn't supposed to be a humble brag | 21:03 |
| pedja | I see it as a straight answer to straight question :) | 21:04 |
| pedja | frinnst's 'I can't use all of my 1/1Gbit pipe' is humble brag | 21:05 |
| tilman | what i really like about rust is that's "zero overhead", modern language features and good FFI for c interop | 21:06 |
| tilman | i have this micro controller program that i slowly converted to rust source code module by module | 21:07 |
| tilman | worked really well | 21:07 |
| pedja | have you played with go yet? | 21:07 |
| tilman | no | 21:07 |
| tilman | i have prejudice against garbage collected languages :p | 21:07 |
| tilman | i guess it could replace python in my toolbox | 21:08 |
| pedja | i like that it's single binary. | 21:09 |
| onodera | I love the go tools most | 21:09 |
| tilman | so they link the runtime statically? | 21:09 |
| onodera | gofmt, godoc, etc. | 21:09 |
| onodera | yeah they do | 21:09 |
| tilman | that's nice for deployment | 21:09 |
| tilman | though not so nice for binary sizes :D | 21:10 |
| onodera | yeah that's true | 21:10 |
| pedja | nice for Docker images :) | 21:10 |
| onodera | I'm porting pkgmk functions to go, I tried a pure go implementation of various decompression commands and that increased the binary size from 3mb to 7 or something | 21:11 |
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| brian|lfs | this day and age 7mb is small | 21:12 |
| pedja | docker-compose, packaged using pyinstaller, is ~6Mb | 21:12 |
| tilman | brian|lfs: *this* attitude is why software sucks today imo | 21:13 |
| tilman | hurr durr, we have plenty of resources, we don't need to be frugal :] | 21:13 |
| brian|lfs | I know just busting sorry | 21:13 |
| onodera | so when will the pkgutils be ported to node.js? | 21:13 |
| pedja | :) | 21:13 |
| tilman | fuck everything about node.js | 21:14 |
| pedja | I 'like' how npm install d/l half of the Internet for even the most simple app | 21:16 |
| onodera | there was this time someone deleted their npm module or whatever it's called | 21:18 |
| john_cephalopoda | Electron is hell. | 21:18 |
| onodera | leftpad | 21:18 |
| onodera | https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/ | 21:18 |
| john_cephalopoda | Electron is chrome + node.js, packed to display an app. | 21:19 |
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| runaphox | Hi everybody. Just did something radical. | 21:20 |
| runaphox | I kinda messed things up with my input drivers for xorg. Thought i would be able to fix it, but i gave up and just reinstalled crux. Yay. But it worked. | 21:22 |
| pedja | define 'messed up' | 21:22 |
| runaphox | Well... My touchpad did not work in X. I tried uninstalling extra drivers (Installed everything in the xorg collection in the CRUX media). Nothing would work. Even though i looked for configs for several input drivers in the Archlinux wiki. | 21:25 |
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| runaphox | When i reinstalled, i only installed the libinput input driver... And Voila! | 21:26 |
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| pedja | jaeger, looks like only containerd has to be updated for docker bump to 17.05.0-ce, runc and libnetwork are the same git commit as for 17.04 | 21:27 |
| onodera | you have to install libunput *and* xorg-xf86-input-libinput | 21:28 |
| onodera | because I forgot to install xorg-xf86-input-libinput once I got stuck for a long time | 21:28 |
| onodera | you might've made the same mistake | 21:28 |
| runaphox | Yep. And also, when i tried to update, accidentally i kind of, you know, installed everything starting by xorg-xf86-input... | 21:29 |
| jaeger | pedja: noted; haven't had time to look at it yet | 21:30 |
| pedja | so far, no issues | 21:30 |
| pedja | multi-stage build is nice, but I haven't played with it yet | 21:31 |
| jaeger | was out of town for a few hours today, took my nephew to see Big Brutus :D | 21:31 |
| jaeger | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brutus | 21:31 |
| runaphox | I have everything working now. Doing a sysup. I hope i don't mess things this time. | 21:31 |
| pedja | you'll never learn anything if you don't ;) | 21:32 |
| brian|lfs | Both MP3 encoding and decoding will soon be officially supported in Fedora. Last November the patents covering MP3 decoding expired and Fedora Workstation enabled MP3 decoding via the mpg123 library and GStreamer... The MP3 codec and Open Source have had a troubled relationship over the past decade, especially within the United States. Historically, due to licensing issues Fedora has been unable to include MP3 decoding or encoding within the base | 21:32 |
| brian|lfs | distribution... A couple of weeks ago IIS Fraunhofer and Technicolor terminated their licensing program and just a few days ago Red Hat Legal provided the permission to ship MP3 encoding in Fedora. | 21:32 |
| brian|lfs | interesting do we ship mp3 encoding enabled as default | 21:32 |
| pedja | lame is in opt since the dawn of time | 21:33 |
| brian|lfs | Well that is very lame lol | 21:34 |
| brian|lfs | couldn't resist | 21:34 |
| runaphox | lol | 21:34 |
| tilman | ACTION just remembered he downloaded the lame sources in 99 and didn't know WTF to do with those foo.c,v files | 21:34 |
| tilman | :D | 21:34 |
| pedja | lame is awesome, still one of the best mp3 encoders | 21:35 |
| pedja | I re-encoded most of my (totally legal) flac's to opus | 21:38 |
| runaphox | Compiling llvm is such a pain... | 21:52 |
| runaphox | It takes like, forever. Not to mention firefox. | 21:53 |
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| runaphox | Has anyone in here achieved, or at least tried, to get a musl-libc system going on CRUX? | 22:06 |
| runaphox | Or even considered it? | 22:07 |
| Larry_The_Cow | runaphox: do you saturate your cores with j flags | 22:17 |
| Larry_The_Cow | that'll help while compiling big packages | 22:18 |
| runaphox | Yep. -j3. I have two cores. Just following gentoo's "rule of thumb" of number of cores plus one. | 22:20 |
| pedja | runaphox, here you go http://crux.ster.zone/packages/3.3/ | 22:42 |
| pedja | d/l and pkgadd :) | 22:42 |
| pedja | they are all built in a Docker container by one of the Crux developers | 22:44 |
| runaphox | Wowowowow. Going to check that right away! | 22:45 |
| runaphox | Thanks. | 22:45 |
| pedja | thank Romster, he does all the work :) | 22:46 |
| runaphox | That precompiled ghc is calling me... I feel like i'm going to the dark side, you know, installing those precompiled packages. Even so, i can compile it myself anytime. | 22:53 |
| runaphox | I'm really liking CRUX thus far. It's like it is so simple there is not much room for problems. And the name is cool. | 22:58 |
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| brian|lfs | welcome aboard runaphox | 23:55 |
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