IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2017-09-07

dghsh@jaeger, btw thanks for the 586.isos. on weekend ill try rtai 4.4 with that .. bye00:49
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Romsteri've been playing with the new https://sourceforge.net/projects/cruxex/files/ didn't know about https://sourceforge.net/projects/bollix/03:08
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: python3: minor install cleanup, no rebuild is necessary03:13
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: ninja: 1.7.2 -> 1.8.103:13
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j_vninja's new file 'usr/share/vim/syntax/ninja.vim' conflicts with file of same name/path in vim port05:10
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: chromium: 60.0.3112.101 -> 61.0.3163.7906:43
ryu0Chrome now has... webUSB. Just what the web needed. Direct access to USB.06:47
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: ninja: removed ninja.vim, is provded by core/vim06:50
j_vwebUSB? wtf06:51
frinnsthow often is ninja.vim updated I wonder06:51
j_vnot sure, but i did a diff and only difference were comments about homepage url i think06:52
ryu0j_v: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/17/09/06/2011214/chrome-61-arrives-with-javascript-modules-webusb-support06:52
frinnstmight be better to strip it from vim. On the other hand if its a pretty static file it would fit better in vim06:52
j_vfrinnst: i dunno, wasn't sure myself. was why i only mentioned the conflict without suggested solution06:53
ryu0i don't see why we need webusb. it would make more sense to provide an abstraction to access w/e input devices they want or w/e.06:55
frinnstyeah Im just thinking out loudly06:55
frinnstim sure google wants webusb for chrome os06:56
ryu0i swear, the browser resembles a kernel more and more every year.06:56
frinnstnah its far far more complex06:56
frinnst:)06:56
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frinnsta website dickbutt 3d printout driveby would be awesome tho06:59
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: chromium: fix up a patch file should not affect us yet as it's for glibc 2.26 that we don't use yet07:26
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pedjathe comment in ninja.vim in ninja git repo suggests that vim is now upstream for it08:52
pedjai.e all updates for it should go to vim, so shipping it with vim is the proper way :)08:54
pedjaspeaking of vim, time to cut another snapshot? its at 8.0.1067 now08:56
frinnstreplace with emacs08:58
pedjanever used that08:58
pedjait looks so...alien08:58
frinnstuemacs08:59
pedjanah.vim is love, vim is life.08:59
pedja(all .1% of its capabailities that I use)09:00
pedjacapabilities*. duh.09:00
frinnstvi vi vi is the editor of the beast09:00
pedja:)09:01
frinnsthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Emacs09:01
pedjaI pray to Eris whenever I build pgloader (written in Lisp) that nothing goes wrong. HTH am I supposed to debug *that*?09:03
pedjait reminds me of go, with its cryptic error messages.09:06
pedjaby far, Java builds are most 'fun' to debug. its chatty af09:08
pedjaand somewhere in that wall of text is hidden a clue of what is wrong.09:09
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pedjahttps://anchore.com/blog/breakdown-operating-systems-dockerhub/10:38
pedjaCrux Docker image is ~450Mb, 2/3 of it being the toolchain :)10:39
frinnstmodel name: AMD Ryzen 3 1200 Quad-Core Processor10:45
frinnst\o/ I guess10:45
frinnstshould do fine for a week or two10:45
pedjaafter that, it should make a fine base for pfSense box10:46
pedjaone that can keep up with your 1/1Gbit connection :)10:47
pedjaaes-ni and all that jazz10:47
frinnstmy pcengines apu2 already supports that10:48
frinnstI pushed ~800mbit over ipsec with it at work when testing10:48
pedjanice10:48
pedjaapu2c4d, or smth like that, iirc?10:49
frinnstno wait, thats not right10:49
frinnst800mbit was between 2 xeons10:49
frinnstdont remember exacly what I could push since I only had a 100mbit connections between the sites at the time10:49
wikrodo you guys use crux as a desktop?11:05
wikroor rather, for desktop11:05
pedjafrinnst, you have ipv6 cert, right? prepare for ipv10 :) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-ipv10-06.html11:15
pedjawikro, for more than a decade11:15
wikrowhy do you use crux instead of anything else, pedja ?11:17
frinnst[loop-0] tor sep 7 13:15:15 CEST 2017 build failed11:19
frinnstlol wtf?11:19
frinnstthis one too11:19
frinnstah nevermind11:19
frinnstits because of broken gcc 7.111:19
pedjawikro, it does what I want, it gets out of my way, it's flexible etc.11:20
frinnstpedja: yeah they better get started.. its been a while since ipb6 was at this stage11:22
wikroI've mostly been using gentoo, arch or freebsd (later manjaro), I've never really felt any of them is in the way11:22
wikroright now crux seems interesting due to the ports system and not having systemd11:23
frinnstwikro: all distributions are compromises11:23
frinnstand they need to be. unless you only need to support one computer / usecase11:23
frinnstRFC 1883                   IPv6 Specification              December 199511:28
pedjarfc2460 from 1998 is the final spec, I think.11:31
pedjaalmost 20 years ago...11:31
wikrofeeling old yet? ;)11:31
frinnstno it was obsoleted by 820011:32
frinnstI felt old in 1998 :-)11:33
pedjasame here11:34
pedjaheh, one of the bigger changes in 8200 vs 2460 is 'security considerations' :)11:36
pedjaalmost 20 years, and I still get 'why do you want it?' from my ISP11:39
pedjamy electricity provider doesn't care what I use it for, as long as I pay the bill. why are ISPs any different? they have the infrastructure, they provide it to businesses11:43
pedjasame reason I am stuck at pathetic upload speed, I guess.11:43
pedjabut that's a rant for another time11:44
ryu0pedja: seriously? IPv6 is just an addressing scheme, and it's gradually taking over.11:44
ryu0pedja: sounds like the ISP needs to get out of the internet stone age.11:45
pedjaryu0, they have ipv6 blocks, they upgraded their core network to handle it. the problem seem to be CPE11:46
ryu0pedja: CPE?11:48
pedja'customer premises equipment'11:49
pedjaonly the newer ones support ipv611:50
ryu0pedja: oh. right. like my cable modem.11:50
pedjayes11:51
ryu0we upgraded and magically started getting IPv6 stuff.11:51
ryu0maybe forcing people to DOCSIS 3.0 will help there. lol11:52
pedjathey did start an infra upgrade project state-wide, using Huawei equipment11:52
pedjamost of the people outside the biggest cities have ADSL11:52
pedjacable internet, apart from a few places, sucks horribly11:55
pedjaand the one that actually works properly is available to relatively small part of the population11:56
pedjatbh, it's not *that* bad :)11:57
ryu0pedja: we already had cable infrastructure.11:57
ryu0so. yea...11:57
ryu0when we first moved here, 512 kbps or so was normal.11:57
ryu0that was like 18 years ago.11:58
ryu0hm.11:58
ryu0we'd get like 300 kilobytes a second of download.11:58
ryu0... nevermind that's higher...11:58
pedjawe can get decent d/l speeds, but u/l? hell no11:59
ryu0so we oriignally got like11:59
ryu02.5 mbps11:59
ryu0today we get 65 mbps11:59
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ryu0and 5 mbps of upload11:59
frinnstThe firewall for the other tenants here where we have our office doesnt support ipv6 at all12:00
frinnstdell sonicwall crap12:00
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pedjaryu0, how much is it? 60/4 here is ~20 €12:02
pedjacable12:03
frinnstand I dont want to turn it off to customers without first making sure things are prepared. A lot of "firewalls" are wide open and just NAT (or not) to the LAN12:03
frinnstwhen everyhting becomes routable then it gets fun12:03
pedjadamn, that's some awesome horse https://www.sonicwall.com/en-us/home12:05
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frinnstuh o. did dell hear me?12:07
ryu0pedja: nearly $6012:07
ryu0so a screw job either way.12:07
pedjaryu0, damn, that's steep12:07
ryu0but the price has stayed around the same for the last 18 years so there is that.12:07
frinnstwe gave a quote to a potential customer a few days ago for 10gbit12:08
frinnst~60k SEK per month12:08
frinnst:)12:08
pedja....12:08
frinnstdont think we will hear back12:08
ryu0~$750012:08
frinnstI pay ~900SEK /month for 1gbit12:10
frinnstresidential and business are a bit different12:10
pedjadifferent requirements, too.12:11
frinnstyeah. SLA:s are a bit different12:12
frinnstresidential sla: though luck. fuck off12:12
frinnstbusiness sla: we'll have that fixed in a few seconds sir. May i suck your cock while you wait?12:12
pedjaor 'we did say its 'up to', now, did we, peasant?'12:13
pedjaa friend of mine just calls up admins at providers provider :)12:15
pedjawhich is what, level 4,5, support?12:16
pedjaone of them is now working for AWS, I think12:17
pedjafew times I had to deal with my ISPs support they were quick and professional, so no complaints12:20
pedjagiven that I usually attach a fuckload of logs and screenshoots, I guess they just kick it upstairs :)12:21
pedjaworks for me12:21
frinnstI have never had to deal with them really other than to call and say. "its down" and get the reply "we know, it will be fixed by HH:mm. Do you want us to text you when its back up?"12:23
frinnstI have one lingering issue with my ISP tho12:23
frinnst  2   31.208.118.33  1.087ms  0.793ms  0.743ms12:23
frinnst  3   146.172.88.189  24.373ms  23.790ms  24.286ms12:23
frinnstthat 3rd hop..12:23
frinnstbut the hoops they want me to jump through are tiresome12:24
pedjasub 20ms on all IPS hops.12:29
pedjaISP*12:29
pedja60ms average on the rest.12:31
pedjadependent on the time of the day12:31
pedjabest from 2-4, worst between 20-22h12:32
pedja720p and up streams without serious buffering/stutter at that time? fsck no12:33
pedjano graphs to back that up, thou12:36
frinnstgood thing not having to worry about that12:38
frinnstI got a taste how bad It can be last autumn when I was on 4G for 2? months12:38
frinnstfuck it sucked..12:38
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pedjafrinnst, check the other ideas of Ipv10 author https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-si-00 :)12:59
pedja'Satellite Internet (SI) is a new technology that will allow travelers travelling overseas or in-planes to gain access to the Internet.'13:00
pedjasatellites connected with fiber cables...13:00
pedjaoh, he has 8+ years of experience as a sysadmin.13:04
pedjathat totally qualifies him to re-engineer the Internet, don't you agree?13:05
ryu0pedja: no. lmao.13:05
ryu0pedja: network engineers would be more likely to have relevant experience.13:06
pedjaI am not sure he knows how IETF draft/RFC procedure works, either13:08
pedjaDunning-Kruger is strong with this one, methinks13:09
frinnsthaha13:10
frinnst- Each satellite holds routers connected to other routers on other satellites using13:11
frinnst     fiber optic cables.13:11
frinnstoh.. yeah those won't break or anything13:11
frinnstiits not like there's tons of debris already in orbit13:11
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ryu0anyone bored? i found this channel that makes fun of kickstarter/indiegogo projects, but also reviews them sometimes.13:11
ryu0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMyBHvUTUAo13:11
ryu0X)13:12
pedjaand, as we know, satellites are static in orbit13:12
pedjathey don't adjust their position all the time. no, no, no13:12
pedjaryu0, that is awesome, thank you13:14
pedjaLaser Razor? wtf13:19
frinnstgood idea but god that guy is annoying13:30
ryu0frinnst: the reviewer is annoying?13:30
frinnstyeah13:31
frinnstdont tell me thats you :)13:31
ryu0No.13:31
ryu0lol13:31
ryu0i think he's hilarious.13:31
ryu0but w/e.13:31
joacimthe pay for orbital cable guys must be amazing13:48
joacimretire when you're 2513:48
pedjasplicing fiber at 35k km above Earth is badass14:01
jaegerSomehow cable companies will figure out how to get a backhoe up there to cut it every few months :P14:04
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pedjathe news that the next pfSense version, planned for late 2018., requires aes-ni, stirred quite a shitstorm14:27
pedjadespite the fact that the 2.4.x will be supported for 1+years after that, people are loosing their fscking minds14:29
pedja'cheap box I got from Aliexpress for 100$ won't work in 3 years'.boo-fscking-hoo14:31
pedjamy favorite is 'I will never download your free, open source, sw, ever again'14:34
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cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: sudo: update to 1.8.21p214:52
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: iproute2: update to 4.13.014:52
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frinnstwell, looped killryzen.sh for 4 hrs and no build errors with the ryzen3 cpu15:17
frinnstso nothing wrong with the other parts15:17
joacimi had another random freeze/shutdown/reboot last night15:20
joacimonly happens when i run crux too15:20
joacimwas idling when it happened :(15:21
frinnstI never had that15:21
frinnstdoesnt sound like the same error. my system is stable otherwise.. only build errors15:21
joacimi've had those too i think15:21
joacimbut the random shutdowns leaves more of a mark15:21
frinnstanything overclocked? what speeds are you running your mem in?15:22
joacimOC RAM I guess15:22
joacim3200 MHz15:22
joacimCL1415:22
joacimthose are the rated speeds for that kit, but would be an OC for the controller15:23
joacimi could leave it at its SPD profile for a while, see if it happens again15:23
frinnsti'd run it at standard ddr4 speeds for a while just to see if you still see random crashes15:23
joacimplan on running memtest86+ for a while too15:23
joacimi would have to run them at their SPD profile anyways, when applying for an RMA15:24
joacimmemtest86+ is on the crux install media?15:32
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frinnstif you boot in non-uefi mode, yes15:49
joacimrunning it now15:49
joacimkinda want to get threadripper too, might do that if my motherboard turns out to be completely bonkers15:52
frinnstcrazy expensive, no?16:01
frinnstand the cheaper models looks more like ryzen7s?16:01
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joacimyeah16:17
joacimbut supports quad channel memory16:17
joacimso you get to spend more on ram =)16:18
joacimthat part i already did tho16:18
joacimi dont think it is too expensive for the entry level model tho. would rather splurge on TR4 if I was considering the 1800x16:19
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joacimi'm happy with my 1700x tho. just wish it was stable16:20
joacimhttps://www.proshop.no/Server/HP-E-ProLiant-MicroServer-Gen10-Entry/260984716:32
joacimtempted by these new microservers16:32
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SiFuhThis Legion series is awesome~16:37
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SiFuhAnyone wear the Regatta Mens Hardwear clothing?17:35
joacimnever heard about them17:40
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jaegerNot I17:47
joacimfrinnst: how long should i expect to run pkgmk -f gcc?17:48
ryu0joacim: until done :)17:54
joacimi'm running it in an infinite loop17:54
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john_cephalopodajoacim: Then expect it to run infinitely long.18:19
joacimyour reply seems out of context18:19
john_cephalopodajoacim: When you run it in an infinite loop, it will run forever :þ18:20
joacimits about the ryzen segfault issues18:21
joacimcommonly provoked by compiling stuff18:21
john_cephalopodaOh, there are still issues? I would have thought they fixed it already.18:21
joacimit seems the fix is a cpu swap :(18:21
john_cephalopodaOuch18:24
jaegeryeah. I'm in the middle of the RMA process for mine18:26
john_cephalopodaA free replacement??18:27
jaegeraside from shipping the defective one back, should be18:27
jaegerIt would be nice if they'd pay for return shipping but I don't expect it18:28
frinnstjoacim: mine crashed after anything between 5 minutes to 60 minutes18:30
frinnstjaeger: they are18:30
jaegeroh, really? nice18:30
frinnstall i had to to was to call dhl and give them their customer number thingy'18:30
frinnstbooked the pickup today, it will go out tomorrow18:31
jaegercool18:31
frinnsthad to get my ryzen 3 in place first :-)18:31
john_cephalopodajaeger: Ah, well, at least they have some form of support going on.18:31
frinnstyeah the questions they ask are pretty standard and they are not trying to weasel themselves out of it18:31
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joacimi have to restart my test18:32
joacimfigured out that while true will keep running even after a segfault18:33
joacimwhile pkgmk -f ; do true ; done18:34
joacimi guess thats the proper way18:34
jaegerjoacim: you could always use the kill-ryzen script from https://github.com/suaefar/ryzen-test18:34
jaegerslightly modified to be less distribution-specific18:35
jaegerhttp://sprunge.us/CcHX18:36
jaegerI commented the gcc download after the first run18:36
joacimill keep that for later18:37
frinnstim on glibc 2.26 so gcc 7.1 doesnt build18:40
frinnstI started a killryzen.sh run just after I switched out to ryzen3 and it crashed - forgot about it :)18:40
frinnst7.2 works fine18:40
jaegeroops, heh18:42
jaegerjohn_cephalopoda: yeah, could be worse18:42
joacimno idea what would happen if i contacted the retailer18:47
jaegerI considered that but figured I had an even chance of getting another broken one if they'd even take it back this late18:50
joacimusually manufacturers tell us to contact the retailer in norway19:03
joacimdue to our consumer laws19:03
nwegood evening guys!19:53
abenzHi nwe !19:54
nwehow are you guys?19:57
abenzI'm good, how are you!19:57
nweIm fine thanks, have just fix some ansible for work :)19:58
frinnstjoacim: I did that first19:58
frinnstthey said linux was not officially supported and pretty much told me to go fuck myself19:59
nwehow does you guys keep gpg ~/.gnupg in sync between workstation and laptop ?20:00
abenzso the RMA is now with AMD directly?20:00
frinnstyeah20:00
joacimi imagine retail is full of support folks that know nothing but windows20:02
frinnstmy latest reply was with the customer service boss for inet.se20:02
joacimwhere i work, the most common "solution" offered to customers is a reinstall20:02
joacimeven for lame mundane stuff like forgotten login passwords20:02
frinnstTyv�rr �r detta inget vi kan g�ra, framf�rallt n�r det var i mars du k�pte processorn. Beklagar :(20:03
joacimi think i ordered mine from dustin20:03
frinnstMattias Bergqvist20:03
frinnstKundservicechef20:03
joacimthey were decent enough when i had to rma my r9 fury20:03
frinnstVi har inte godk�nt din felanm�lan p� grund av,20:03
frinnstKikat med tekniker och finns inget officiellt st�d f�r Linux med Ryzen. D� det inte �r n�got h�rdvarufel p� processorn �r det inget vi kan g�ra i detta fall dessv�rre.20:03
joacimi think my issue with that is "när"20:03
joacimdo you not have a rule like "den gang da, hver gang når." in sweden?20:04
frinnsthaha yeah20:04
frinnsti think he was thinking that "if i bought it yesterday then maybe they could be kind and replace it" out of the goodness of their hearts20:04
joacimi once had the sales guy try to make me pay the difference when i had to RMA my ram, just a few weeks after the hynix fire20:05
joacimmy broken kit was just a few months old20:06
frinnsthaha20:06
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abenz_anyone here on exotic keymaps20:17
abenz_eg devorak etc20:17
jaegerI used dvorak for about a year maybe 18 years ago20:21
jaegerI liked it and it didn't take very long to learn, but working on other computers got annoying20:22
joacimjaeger: you ran that script on crux?20:22
pedja4c 25W TDP CPU/4Gb/SSD pfSense micro-itx box for ~300€? my, how the technology has improved20:23
jaegerjoacim: my modified version, yes20:23
joacimkill-ryzen.sh: 73: kill-ryzen.sh: Syntax error: Bad for loop variable20:24
joacimtrying to run it as a regular user tho20:24
jaegerI run it as my own user, there are a couple sudo calls in it20:25
frinnstshebanged as bash, right?20:25
joacimuh right20:25
joacimworks now20:26
joacimold habit. ran it with sh20:26
jaeger:)20:26
joacimwhen symlinked to bash, it wouldnt matter i guess20:26
joacimmy own "while pkgmk -f; do true ; done" ran for about two hours without fail20:30
jaegerMy failure times have ranged from 2s to over a day20:32
joacimyeah. the kill ryzen failed quickly20:33
joacimscript*20:33
jaegerIt just starts up $CORES single-thread builds simultaneusly vs. one build using $CORES threads20:34
joacima few segfaults now and then is better than complete system crashes20:35
frinnstyeah I only noticed it while building20:35
joacimbut those happens randomly too. but ill run my ram at 2400 MHz to see if my issues was due to memoryh20:35
frinnstIf I didnt run a source based distribution I would never have notived it20:36
jaegeryeah. I can play games on the box all day long without trouble. just compiling that fails20:37
jaegerI do spend a lot of time on that, though20:37
frinnstsame here :)20:38
joacimgames?20:38
frinnstcompiling silly20:38
joacimyeah20:38
frinnst4.9.4820:38
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jaegerTime to partially disassemble my i5-6600k box to ship it20:40
pedjanext LTS is 4.14, which sucks for Vega owners :)20:41
pedjaboth of them, who managed to get it before the miners20:42
pedjabut folks at r/AMD are optimists, 'when the Ethereum blows up, miners will sell off the cards'20:44
pedjaerr, wouldn't they just switch to another coin?20:44
pedjahttps://lkml.org/lkml/2017/9/6/682 <--Ryzen temp sensor patch20:52
pedjapatches*20:52
joacimi guess the casual ones wont20:59
frinnstwow finally21:09
frinnstcheers21:09
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frinnstk10temp-pci-00c321:23
frinnstAdapter: PCI adapter21:23
frinnsttemp1:        +30.1�C  (high = +70.0�C)21:23
frinnstnice21:23
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abenzso you are on ryzen 3 now?21:26
frinnstyeah. it runs a lot cooler21:27
pedjafrinnst, is that idle on stock cooler?21:27
frinnstnah my massive cooler21:27
frinnsttoo much work to remove the mountings :)21:27
pedjaNoctua?21:27
frinnsthttps://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/thermalright_archon_cpu_cooler_review,14.html21:28
frinnstyou kind of get a clue of the size there21:28
frinnstCons - Heatsink may be too tall for some cases21:29
pedja155x53x170mm, 800g.damn :)21:31
pedjaa bit bigger than my Hyper T421:35
frinnstI used it for my sandy bridge. got their universal adaptor to support am421:36
pedjanice21:36
pedjaups, not Hyper T4, TX3 EVO.21:38
pedjawhich is tiny (90x79x136 mm)21:39
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frinnstim a big fan of thermalright. even their website is classy21:40
frinnstwell, not so much anymore. it used to be real clean21:40
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pedjamy Intel stock cooler disintegrated at Saturday afternoon, this is all I could find in the only shop open :)21:43
joacimi liked the box my thermalright came in 10 years ago21:43
joacimjust a plain brown box with a logo21:43
pedjanever heard of Thermalright, I know of Thermaltake.21:45
pedjaI always jump a little when I see 'be quiet!' mentioned21:47
pedjaits incredible that the temp diff, on TR CPU, between AIO water cooling and Noctua fans is ~1C21:50
pedjait helps that the heat spreader is massive, I guess21:51
pedjaserver pr0n https://www.servethehome.com/updated-hpe-cloudline-cl3150-with-amd-epyc-spotted-at-vmworld-2017/21:54
pedjawtf, MSI? https://www.servethehome.com/msi-x399-gaming-pro-carbon-ac-motherboard-review-hello-threadripper/21:56
jaegerI saw that booth at VMworld though I didn't check out the hardware22:15
joacimthe be quiet stuff looks pretty nice i think22:19
joacimbut the performance of mine wasnt that great22:20
joacimi might have mounted it wrong tho22:20
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