IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2017-12-06

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dlcusaThanks, Jaeger--it was.03:29
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joacimthose massdrop-made keycaps looks great07:13
joacimbut they're so expensive, and the estimated ship date is always half a year away07:14
Romster3d printed keycaps?07:15
joacimI don't know how they make them. they don't look 3d-printed07:15
joacim120 USD for the basic ansi kit, then i have to pay extras to get nordic keys and iso keys07:15
Romsterhttps://3dprint.com/133416/3d-printed-keycaps/07:16
abenzdlcusa: happy birthday. The wisdom you have by now..07:27
abenzdlcusa: in retrospect, say you went back to your early 30s, what would you do differently? Given most guys here are in 30s, please share07:29
Romsteri turned 40 3 days ago07:29
abenzhey! Romster happy brithday07:29
Romstercheers07:29
abenzis it the december club here? :D07:29
abenzeveryone born in december07:30
Romsterseems like it07:30
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Romsteri didn't do much on my b-day it was terrible weather07:32
abenzonce upon a time, I ordered pizza on my birthday and ate home07:33
Romstermaybe this weekend i'll go for a drive and go shopping or something07:33
abenzdon't think anyone can beat that07:33
Romsterlol07:33
Romsterhttps://geekhack.org/ look what i found a forum just for keyboard enthusiasts07:34
joacimfrinnst: if you ever see someone named Joacim Melin, punch him in the face07:48
Romsteris that you joacim :D07:51
joacimno07:51
joacimhe stole my nick on efnet07:51
Romsterah07:51
Romstersetup a bnc and wait to regain it07:51
joacimyeah loaded keepnick on this client07:52
joacimbut, he runs irc from his mail server07:52
joacimand uses a somewhat stable efnet server07:52
joacimwill take ages07:52
Romsteralways the case07:52
Romsterbut why07:52
Romsteris he mocking you?07:52
joacimI don't think so07:53
Romsteri feel buggered, work is draining me so much.07:53
joacimhe also has that name on twitter, but im ok with that since he registered before I did07:53
joacimbut I've been on efnet for 15 years, always using the same nick07:53
Romsterah07:54
Romsternot fun that efnet has no nick services07:54
joacimyeah07:54
Romsteranyone could impersonate07:55
joacimwhat's your job?07:55
Romstercomptuer thch, photocoper tech, network, iphone repairs, electronics tech. about sums it up07:56
Romsterand retail serving customers, computer stuff and jaycar dealer.07:56
joacimbit of everything07:57
Romsterpretty much07:57
Romsterspecalise in hard drive data recoverys but not to the point of pulling the drive apart.07:58
Romsteralthough i did get lucky once, was about to destroy a hard disk one time took the cover off it, head was stuck to the platter, i unstuck it replaced the cover and copied everything off it. then i destroyed it.07:59
Romsteroh by the way stay clear of sandisk SSD's so many failures. had the same customer for a second time today08:01
Romsterand seen some other sandisk ssds die08:02
joacimi guess i specialise in hiding things from the workshop so that customers get their rma request approved08:02
Romsteronly ever seen 1 kingston ssd die08:02
joacimwas so frustrating when my coworker would tell the workshop that the customer had accidentally stuck the charger in their usb port08:03
Romsterdoing rma's suck08:03
Romsteri'm sorry the warranty just expired a week ago.08:03
joacimasus don't need to know that. rather have a happy customer with a new motherboard than a somewhat pissy one08:03
joacimworst ones spilt fluids on their stuff, or cracked the screen, and still thinks the warranty applies08:04
Romsterhow on earth could you do that.08:04
Romsteryeah i've had that or they have a software issue from malware thanking it's covered by warranty08:05
joacim"it's brand new", and they've had their computer for a year08:05
Romsteror i get can you upgrade this to windows 10, pulls out laptop has vista on it.... nah mate you need a new one. but it's only 4 years old.... try 7 or more.08:07
Romstertime to find me some food08:10
timcowchiphappy birthday Romster,guess I'm in the december club too08:23
timcowchipthe big four-008:23
timcowchipmines the big seven-0 in 4 days08:24
Romsterwell then december it is then08:50
Romster70 is impressive, happy early b-day, incase i forget later08:52
frinnstindeed happy b-day in advance08:54
frinnstim not even 40 yet but my body has already started to fall apart :-)08:55
timcowchipthanks :)09:02
timcowchipbrb09:03
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timcowchipgot an early day tomorrow, getting a new ISP09:22
timcowchip100Mbs fiber09:22
timcowchipthey probably knock on my door in about 5 or 6 hours09:23
timcowchipthey'll09:23
timcowchipso gn09:23
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abenzfrinnst: how is it falling apart?09:38
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frinnstaches and pains :-)10:20
frinnsthow old are you abenz ?10:21
joacimso far only my right ankle is a bit shoddy10:26
joacimbeen kinda "annoying" for about 5 years, and yesterday i twisted it10:26
frinnstwhen you turn 30 its downhill10:49
joacimlosing my hair too, but my beard filled in nicely11:06
pedjasome people say that the 40's are the new 30's. and those people are lying bastards11:32
Romsterthink it was about 35 when i started to feel my age11:34
pedjaand so is AMD, apparently https://www.anandtech.com/show/12122/amd-silently-lowers-radeon-rx-560-specifications11:34
Romsterthe heck AMD11:37
Romsterguess AMD is lowering the bar on RX560 and/or they are having problems with the more cores being stable?11:57
pedjaor they have a *lot* of 460 chips just sitting around. reflash them, and voila, 'new' product12:13
pedjalame decision by AMD. was RX 555 taken as a name for them? or something like that?12:14
joacimseems like board makers use different names tho12:14
pedjadifferent SKU's12:15
pedjaAsus adds EVO to the name, iirc.12:20
pedjaunnecessary confusion, imho12:21
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ryu0Remember kiddies, you can't spell 'crap' without 'app'.14:26
dlcusaabenz, you are asking to drink from the firehose.  I did not pursue a bachelors as I did not (and still do not) like the supposed monopoly higher education holds on learning.  Certs are still for wannabes.  Point 1: Don't take as gosple anything you need to regurgitate to get a passing grade.15:49
dlcusaI tried different dead-end fields and explored career possibilities by borrowing books from the public library.  One book taught assembler programming for an abstract computer and that grabbed me.  Point 2:  READ as much as you can but read critically and don't waste your time; i.e., teach yourself.15:56
dlcusaI concluded a local trade school's 7.5 month curriculum for mainframe programming was a low-risk investment and took out student loans to fund it.  I worked every angle to maximize my use of the system, did my own card keypunching, came in at 11 PM to run all the backlogged jobs, then had the system all to myself until 7 AM.  Point 3:  Don't only do enough to merely get by.16:01
joacimgoing to trade school for basic sysadmin (windows server, sccm, domain work) stuff right now. cheaper than college, quicker, higher intensity, 6 months instead of 3 years.16:04
joacimno idea how it will work out, but seems ok so far16:04
dlcusaEven though I graduated with a 4.0 and honors, the lack of a degree kept me out of programming, so I got a job as an operator for a service bureau and set a goal to become a mainframe systems programmer in ten years.  I did it in five.  Point 4: Work your way up while getting OJT real world experience.16:05
joacimyou'd earn money instead of getting more debt too16:06
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joacimpeople go to the university for the wrong reasons i think. no idea what to do after high school, so they go to college16:08
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joacimeven if you do know what you want, the job market can change a lot by the time you finish16:10
joacimknow a few guys that cant get jobs now since they studies for work in the oil industry16:10
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joacimnobody were hiring after the oil prices tanked16:10
dlcusajoacim, flexability is crucial, and you must monitor industry trends to adjust you career trajectory.  In my early yaers that meant reading Computerworld--the Internet makesit so much more easy to do this now.16:12
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dlcusaBasic engineering skills transfer to all kinds of specialities.  Be ready to pursue new specialties at the drop of a hat.16:13
dlcusaIt's ironic that I got a job as a "Computer Scientist" on a NASA Goddard contract supporting Orbit Computation supporting Space Shuttle missions among others, without a degree.  Point 5:  Work experience trumps college experience.16:19
dlcusaThese days I am considered too old by managers younger than some of my children.  Experience is often seen as threat by the less experienced.  Now I do pro-bono work that I want to do.  Point 6:  Invest wisely.16:26
dlcusaSo, to answer your question, the only thing I would have done differently would have been to invest more wisely. ;-)  Of course, my wife and I have difficulty agreeing on what are wise investments, but we agreed the children were a high priority.17:14
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dlcusatimcowchip, do you have anything to add to that?17:35
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abenzdlcusa: thank you good sir, always appreciate an older gentleman's perspective18:18
abenzdlcusa: at what age did you marry and had your first child ?18:19
abenzs,had,have,18:20
abenzfrinnst: 30s, december club member as well18:20
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frinnstthen get ready for your body to start falling apart :D18:38
SiFuh_ai?18:47
SiFuh_dlcusa: is not old18:47
abenzfrinnst: sigh.. NO, it starts in the mind18:52
joacimit starts in the hair19:01
joacimthen spreads to the joints19:01
abenzyou need to eat healthy and reconnect with nature to restore the balance19:04
abenzit can be restored at any age, 40s 50s etc19:04
abenzI've seen much older men in my life, who go through transformations19:04
abenzlike I said, it starts in the mind19:04
SiFuh_and yet we are programmed to die no matter what age we are19:04
abenzyes that is by design19:05
SiFuh_most of us have 3 choices.19:05
SiFuh_sin till die (very young)19:05
SiFuh_enjoy life and die middle life19:05
SiFuh_and live a healthy life and kind life and die old.19:06
SiFuh_Most choose the first19:06
abenzunfortunately..19:06
SiFuh_they think it is the most rewarding.19:06
SiFuh_the last is, you can see nations change, grand children grow, and it was all done unselfishly.19:07
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pedjaI still don't see the appeal of tiling WM, but she is cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Api6dFMlxAA19:19
SiFuh_pedja: tiling is more android and designed for phones and tablets/slates19:20
SiFuh_anyone who wishes to put it into the computer world should learn that tmux is the only way19:21
pedjaisn't tmux just building on idea of GNU screen?19:22
SiFuh_I rather look at her19:22
pedja'just'19:22
SiFuh_tmux is a pro's way of tiling19:22
SiFuh_i don't need 50 instances of conky ;-)19:23
SiFuh_I have 12 desktops   I don't need tiling  I just need a keyboard19:23
SiFuh_i don't have wasted space.  She is talking of a single desktop19:25
SiFuh_infact I have 7 virtual desktops that rarely get used19:27
SiFuh_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUsFloTTetI19:29
SiFuh_cry over that19:29
crash_SiFuh_: can't watch that video, but i'm happy with i3-wm have been running it for some years now :)19:39
SiFuh_I love my fluxbox19:40
SiFuh_been running it since it was invented19:40
SiFuh_:-)19:40
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crash_nice :) fluxbox is not bad19:42
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crash_now when i have been using a tiling wm for years i can't use a stacking/floating wm anymore hehe19:42
SiFuh_hah cool19:48
dlcusaabenz, I was 31 when I married and our daughter arrived three and a half years later followed by three boys, the last after another 8 years.19:50
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dlcusas/three/two/19:53
dlcusaYes, the 1st "three".19:53
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dlcusaSiFuh, my centenarian mother-in-law is not old.  She has outlived her first pacemaker, still in unassisted living, still keeping her books, just came through a hernia operation.  She swam every day until she reached 90.20:10
dlcusaThat was the year she got her first computer and began learning how to use it.  She's still learning.20:30
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timcowchipdicusa: my son got a degree in computer science and he is doing well20:40
timcowchipI guess either get trained or qualified by degree in a field that will last20:41
timcowchiphealth care comes to mind20:41
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timcowchipmy son is currently programming medical robitics20:42
dlcusatimcowchip: My oldest got a Masters in IT and got picked up by IBM.  He gave up on IBM within two years and now works on TS stuff, so he has a shot at repaying his loans even with two children.  He does know a LOT more math than I do. ;-)20:43
timcowchipwow a Masters that's a lot of college20:45
dlcusaAyup.20:45
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timcowchipmy dad was a radio operator in the air force and taught my morse code20:46
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timcowchipthat got into a training program in the marine corps which lead to job oppurtunities when I got out20:48
timcowchipthe more experience I got, the better jobs I got20:48
dlcusaNothing succeeds like success.20:48
timcowchipfortunately I look younger than I am and the "you're too old" bugaboo didn't catch up it me until I was almost 6020:50
timcowchipI retired from a low paying part time job at 6220:50
dlcusaSame here--most folks think I'm 50ish.20:51
timcowchipthat job taught me to live on less20:51
timcowchipI get more from social security tha that job paid me20:54
timcowchipthan20:54
dlcusaI like George Ure's "How To Live On $10,000 A Year - Or Less" (https://www.amazon.com/How-Live-10-000-Year-ebook/dp/B00BF119DK?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-ffsb-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00BF119DK).  They don't teach this stuff in school's any more.20:55
timcowchipschools are more interested in creating citizens than they are in creating contributors to society20:56
pedjas/citizens/working drones/. at least here.20:59
pedjathe education, science, arts, are always the first to get their budgets cut.21:00
pedjastate football teams, otoh, get bailed out all the time21:01
timcowchipthey're money makers21:01
pedjastrangely enough, state lottery is operating with a loss. funny, that21:02
timcowchipthey giving away too much?21:02
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dlcusaAn audit might make someone uncomfortable.21:03
dlcusaThat is, a competent and ethical audit might.21:04
pedjano chance of that21:05
pedjalottery, major ISP, energy provider, they are all personal piggy banks for ruling party21:06
crash_i want to get a real job next year, i'm doing work training on a library now after my herniation operation last december, i have been home mostly this year for rehab21:07
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timcowchipI worked in a library in 196221:12
timcowchipmy first job, I made $0.75/hour21:13
timcowchipdewey decimal system21:13
dlcusaAnother resonance!  My first job was library page in Montgomery County, MD.  I was always astounded by how much the lids can reorganize the shelves in a mere day.21:14
dlcusas/lids/kids/21:14
crash_nice, well i have never worked in a library before but it's not a bad job21:15
crash_so far21:16
timcowchipits quiet21:16
crash_it's a lot of toddlers here21:16
timcowchipadult books means something different now21:17
timcowchipgrownups don't go to libraries like they used too21:17
dlcusaLots of people go here for the free Internet access.21:18
crash_indeed mostly elders what i have seen so far21:19
timcowchiphttp://bpeck.com/references/ddc/ddc.htm21:19
timcowchipthe 900's were my favorite21:21
timcowchipthey seemed to be the biggest books21:21
crash_timcowchip: that looks interesting, but here we have DAT section( Detective,action,thrillers) regular novel selection21:21
dlcusa000 used to be the dullest section.  PCs, the Internet, and cell phones chaged that.21:22
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frinnstjoacim: asus seem to have removed the bios update that fucked up your system22:00
frinnstVersion 1201 is the latest im seeing atleast22:00
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: qt4: disable icu. Closes FS#154322:03
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joacimfrinnst: read some on reddit about it fucking up for others too, but i just figured they had other problems22:18
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darfoI wonder how xpdf will behave without unicode support in qt4?22:33
darfomy kingdom for a better test environment22:34
darfowait...if my kingdom was worth anything I'd already have a better test environment22:34
j_vdarfo: have you concidered setting up containers for that? docker and lxc come to mind, but there are also lighter weight solutions like nsjail.22:44
darfoI already use qemu. Mostly the problem is the lack of CPUs.22:46
darfoIt takes a long time to compile qt422:47
darfoplaying with different solutions becomes less play and more work22:47
ryu0darfo: containers impose less overhead and don't permanently consume a chunk of system RAM.22:47
ryu0container processes run as special processes using the host kernel.22:48
frinnstdarfo: its not really a fix for the problem, just a workaround :-)22:50
darfoI'll take a look at containers and see if I can compare the overhead. I like the pristine environment I get in a VM where only the core is installed by default.22:50
darfofrinnst: makes sense. I see the port is orphaned now. I wish I could get rid of qt4.22:51
j_vthe way i setup a container is similar to setting up a chroot. that's the basis of my pkgwrap scripts. have been using https://github.com/arachsys/containers for that, but i'm currently using nsjail in a separate branch.22:51
frinnstwhat depends on it? most things seem to be able to use qt522:51
darfoxpdf in opt but I'm not sure it will care if icu disappears22:51
frinnstI really doubt that22:52
darfoI have a bunch of apps I host in df repo that use it. It seems like once they write an extensive app they don't want to rewrite the interfaces to Qt.22:52
frinnstmaybe if xpdf itself links against icu22:53
darfoWell, I suppose it depends on the PDF file. Apps that use icu support in qt4 don't link icu directly they depend on Qt to take care of it for them.22:54
darfoqt is the emacs of GUI toolkits22:55
darfoI guess it is because of qt's origin as the KDE tool. gtk kinda went the same way because of Gnome.22:56
j_vwhich version of icu broke qt4 build? i see a patch for icu59 for arch's build.22:57
darfoit was 59. But we went from 58 to 60.22:57
j_vi could test out arch's patch and report how it goes if you'd like22:58
darfoI've already done so. I think xeirrr submitted it with the FS report.22:58
darfobut the bigger issue is that the port is orphaned22:59
darfoI also sent in some patches for qt4 too but we can't expect the core team to spend time on edge cases23:00
j_vyeah, makes sense. i'm going to have to check to see if recent icu has broke my texlive build23:01
frinnstzzz. send me an email if there is any problems with qt423:02
darfofrinnst: ok. your work is greatly appreciated!23:03
j_vfrinnst: you still prefer git formatted patches, right?23:03
jaegerhttps://github.com/mhoush/crux-docker-image is another option23:14
joacimfrinnst: think i'll have another look in case they have other bios files or "tricks" that will unfuck this system23:21
joacimmight find a use for my rpi finally =)23:21
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