IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2017-12-08

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joacimKVM: SVM: obey guest PAT01:18
joacimreally nice that it's included in the kernel now01:19
jaegerWell, I ordered stuff to build a 60% keyboard, should be fun :)01:35
joacimthe linked pieces?01:38
joacimpost pictures when you have it assembled =)01:39
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jaegeryeah, though I bought the PCB from ebay as it was slightly cheaper and banggood was out of stock01:40
jaegerWill do :)01:40
joacimif there's an issue with the part from ebay, you'll probably just get your money back, and be told to throw away the board01:41
joacimebay just gave me a refund for a whole laptop earlier this year01:41
joacimand let me keep it01:41
joacimdont know what happened to the seller tho, since it was destroyed in shipping by improper handling by ebay01:42
jaegerI've heard that ebay is good about problems like that but that's pretty odd01:42
joacimi think it is fairly common for international shipments to be broken or crushed01:43
joacimsomething happens at their shipping center. the us one anyways01:43
joacimthey dont repackage the item as well as the seller originally did. often missing much of the original bubblewrap01:44
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SiFuhReminder: AIM will be discontinued soon and will no longer work as of December 15, 2017.03:51
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ryu0People still use AIM?04:10
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xckoI find my openvpn connection (run from rc.d) closes occasionally, any body have some tips for making sure it always stays up? write a watcher script or read more of the openvpn config options or ...?04:21
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xckoanyone experiment with compilation flags like -pie -fstack-protector system wide? how'd it go?08:17
xckoah I just found this:
ryu0"Not to mention that CRUX could switch to musl :D"08:20
ryu0no way in hell that'll fly as long as CRUX cares about binary package compatibility.08:20
xckoI'm ignorant on the subject, how does using musl interfere with binary package compatibility?08:21
xckoor do you mean if musl were offered as an option to glibc and users could decide which library to use? then obv I see your point08:26
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ryu0xcko: most binary packages are built against glibc's ABI, not musl's ABI.08:56
ryu0xcko: for proprietary ones you can't just recompile them to fix the issue.08:57
ryu0musl only really makes sense as a replacement for glibc if you don't need such software.08:57
ryu0what i'm getting at is, musl introduces a lot of headaches.08:58
ryu0it doesn't really make sense to use it in a general purpose distribution.08:58
ryu0some packages assume glibc and have issues if you use a different Linux libc.08:59
ryu0among other things.08:59
ryu0switching has a high cost, and for what? i don't see it likely to happen for CRUX.08:59
ryu0there's a reason you don't see other libcs used in most distributions.09:00
ryu0usually only embedded targets bother to do so, like LEDE.09:00
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frinnstglibc isnt going anywhere :)09:14
frinnstACTION is a gnu fanboy09:14
ryu0frinnst: too many practical reasons it'll stick around.09:15
ryu0only a dropin replacement would stand a chance of dislodging it.09:15
xckoryu0: I'm with you on the pain of switching not being worth it. I've experimented with openbsd, alpine, and void-musl, as daily drivers and nonstandard libc gets so tiring after a while.09:17
xckos/nonstandard/anything not glibc/09:18
ryu0inb4 systemd-lib.09:19
ryu0i'm almost surprised they haven't tried to absorb a libc by now.09:19
xckoI think they'd do their own coreutils or shell before a libc09:20
ryu0systemd... they don't care about existing standards.09:21
ryu0probably the main reason for the hate is how overly ambitious they are.09:22
xckoI wonder if systemd can send email yet.09:22
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ryu0but who knows for how much longer.09:23
ryu0i don't understand why they thought it was necessary to replace perfectly functional dhcp/dns daemons with their own crap.09:23
ryu0among other things.09:23
ryu0if systemd had remained just a system process manager, it might have turned out OK.09:23
ryu0just an improved init so to speak.09:24
ryu0instead it's like they wanted it to replace the very processes it was managing with their own versions.09:24
ryu0they broke conventional DNS behavior too.09:26
ryu0normally the name servers are always checked in the same order.09:26
ryu0systemd's version will reorder them for the sake of trying to improve reliability, but this breaks compatibility with private names.09:27
ryu0since they need to be checked before public DNS or it will fail randomly.09:28
ryu0only workaround i see if you're forced to use systemd is to use a LAN dns server that queries public ones when it can't resolve them to private...09:29
ryu0and force systemd to only use one name server.09:29
ryu0the LAN one.09:29
ryu0still so stupid. they should have left a way to make it use the old behavior.09:29
ryu0this "optimization" isn't suitable for all environments.09:29
ryu0only really makes sense if all the name servers are equal in terms of records or so.09:30
xckowow that's insane09:32
xckoI use raspbian on my pi which has systemd. I struggle with changing service scripts, there are like 6 locations a service can be in and there are different files that do different things for the same service .socket .service .whatever.09:36
frinnstdebian does a pretty good job of hiding the systemd-ness09:36
frinnstthats why I prefer debian over centos for work now09:36
xckostill has the init.d dir which is nice, and regular logs too09:36
xckoI'm off to bed. 'night09:37
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cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: [notify] openssl: update to 1.0.2n10:32
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: mailx: update to 14.9.610:33
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joacimfrinnst: Asus has pushed 3401 with the same AGESA.13:58
joacimI guess that one doesn't produce bricks =)13:58
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joacimtabs was a mistake. everything trying to implement them is annoying14:15
joacimit should've stayed as a window manager feature. seeing them in file managers and document viewers is annoying14:15
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jaegerMost of my work stuff is managed via puppet so the systemd-ness doesn't even really appear too often14:40
jaegerExcept when I'm creating unit files or something14:40
jaegerwow, my order from already shipped, didn't expect that14:41
rmulllove banggood14:53
SiFuhbang good?14:53
rmullcheap chinese electronics, but the website is quite usable and well done14:53
SiFuhYou are not the one who ordered the last item?14:54
SiFuhOh wow, cool website.14:55
SiFuhrmull: All prodocuts are cheap Chinese junk?14:57
rmulljunk might be a bit of a generalization14:57
rmullBut yeah, they're all el cheapo versions of what they are14:57
SiFuhI was just looking at the GPS Trackers14:58
rmullI think there's probably a bit of "buyer beware" that is implied14:58
SiFuhplugs straight into the OBD Connector in your car14:58
SiFuhGM90 Vehicle Tracking Alarm Global Positioning Car Motorcycle15:00
SiFuhHahah the alarm shows where the GPS Tracker is located for easy rip out and stomp on.15:00
frinnstjoacim: good to know, thanks15:00
frinnstnot sure if I should upgrade or not since the current one runs ok for me15:01
SiFuhThanks for the website jaeger and rmull15:03
joacimyeah i would stay away from bios upgrades for a bit =)15:16
joacimat least until they release ones with a better looking version number15:16
joacimI kinda regret upgrading15:16
SiFuhUniversal? haha15:16
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: nvidia-sl: updated to version 387.3415:33
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.3]: nvidia-sl-32: updated to version 387.3415:33
jaegerLooks like several updates are available for my ryzen board now, hrmm15:36
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joacimasus claims they'll respond to my request within 48 hours15:39
joacimsurprised if they respond this weekend15:39
joacimi dont expect anyone to have an office open outside of monday-friday15:40
joacimat least for consumer support15:40
SiFuhThey will call you on the 25th of December15:43
SiFuh1 ring, and hang up with a private number and say you were not at home.15:43
joacimgood thing i didn't give them my phone number =)15:44
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joacimso i guess they'll do like everyone else when trying to send email15:44
joacimspell my name wrong15:44
joacimI'm not joachim15:44
joacimor joakim15:44
SiFuhNo they will send an email, with links to viagra so your mail client will auto delete it as spam. ;-)15:44
joacimjoachim and joakim at fastmail is taken too. so i cant just use an alias15:45
SiFuhHahaha I use Kuei as my name when I was doing hacking. When the Thai police see my name. Thai police would read it and shake their heads.15:47
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SiFuhIt has an impolite meaning and it is great when dealing with people of higher levels. ;-)15:50
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darfobrown nose?15:53
SiFuhNo. When they go to call my name, they always have trouble pronouncing it. I will shout out the correct pronunciation. Then all of a sudden everyone get's embarassed. They back away. It is a cultural/respect thing. No one would name their son Kuei. So when a white kid in Asia shouts out Kuei that's me! They fell ashamed. :-)15:55
darfoah, tricky that15:59
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pedjaheh, trekies are losing their minds about the upcoming, R-rated, Tarantino Star Trek movie19:18
pedjacan't be worse than JJ 'lens flare all the things' Abrams ones. probably19:19
ryu0pedja: at this point they could make a movie about Kirk being flushed down a toilet and it'd make for a better movie.19:26
ryu0... and metaphoric.19:27
pedja'Fast & Furious...IN SPACE!'19:28
pedja(I'd watch the hell out of *that*, tbh)19:29
jaegerI would too19:30
pedjatop speed of Mars rover is what, 14mph? pretty impressive mountains/canyons, thou19:34
pedjanot that they bother with laws of physics when they are on Earth19:36
pedjalive action cartoon, basically19:37
pedjaspeaking of live action cartoons/manga, this looks awesome
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: cairo: updated to 1.15.821:49
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: harfbuzz: updated to 1.7.221:49
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ryu0productivity product of the day:
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tsaopmmh, looks like llvm must be recompiled with -DLLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB=1 or mesa 17.3.0 errors out due to llvm-config not finding the multiple .so libraries22:14
tsaopsince they aren't there and only a single .so library is produced22:14
tsaopthe others are all static libraries22:14
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