IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2017-12-13

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mfnyhi all01:13
joacimhey01:15
joacimfreebsd is pretty nice, but it boots so slow01:16
joacima bit annoying to use on a laptop01:16
mfnyabout to install crux for the first time01:16
joacimnice =)01:22
joacimwhich distributions have you used before?01:22
joacimi came from gentoo myself. switched to crux after being annoyed by managing useflags01:23
mfnyive used, or at least installed all the major distros01:31
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mfnybuilding kernel, what fun02:09
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mfnyhaving problem... cant install grub02:37
mfnysaying can not find efi directory02:38
xckowhat is the grub command you ran?03:01
jaegerdid you mount your ESP somewhere like /mnt/boot/efi, then do 'grub-install /boot/efi' in the chroot?03:09
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mfnywelp, after all that the install doesnt boot at all, just get a grub prompt04:55
xckodid you install a kernel and the grub.cfg points to it?05:02
mfnyyes i did, i let it do an autoconfig with efimanager05:03
jaegerthat just installs the bootloader, you still need a config file05:05
jaeger'grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg' can do that05:05
mfnyi did that05:07
jaegergetting a prompt usually indicates that grub can't find a config file05:08
jaegerif you get the prompt, the boot loader is installed, at least05:08
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Worksteralso be sure to name the kernel as vmlinuz-$(uname -r)05:25
Worksterand System.map-$(uname -r)05:26
mfnyso i just chroot back in using the install cd and fix the config file and/or the name of the kernel and system.map ?05:32
Worksteryep05:32
Workstermount root chroot-helper or what it was called05:33
mfnywhats the keyboard layout called in etc/rc.conf for UK layout ?06:09
mfnysomeone want to give me the command to install a DM ... ether KDE or MATE ?06:21
mfnyalso when trying to get ports i get an error cant access06:23
mfnyseems my /usr/ports/core etc directorys are empty ?06:26
mfnyhow to populate them ?06:30
xckoI believe the layout for uk is uk... read the handbook section on ports to use the ports system. ports -u is the command to update your ports / populate them06:39
mfnyah that worked thanks06:43
mfnynow how to get KDE installed is there a metapackage or something ?06:43
xckolooks like kde4 is available. check out crux.nu/portdb, add the appropriate httpup/rsync file /etc/ports/ and then run ports -u kde406:51
mfnyah crap, just tried to startx in prep for that and it hard rebooted my system06:52
mfnydamnit, fogot to add the i915 module06:54
xckoI think openbox is available if you just want to get x running first06:54
mfnyis there a way to add that module without reinstalling everything ?06:55
xckoyeah, if you forgot to add that module in the kernel config just recompile, install, and regen grub.cfg06:56
xckolooks like there is also a section on kde in the wiki too06:57
mfnyhm no entry in menuconfig to add i915 driver07:01
mfny(im new at building kernels etc)07:01
xckoit's okay. once you learn it's really straight forward.07:03
xckoin menuconfig you can press "/" to search for a term07:03
xckoI915 options are in Device Drivers -> Graphics support07:03
xckopress '?' over a highlighted option to see more info07:04
xckoIntel 8xx/9xx/G3x/G4x/HD Graphics is the i915 module option which also shows other configuration options07:05
mfnyfound it but i think i need to enable DRM support ?07:25
xckoDRM in this context is Direct Rendering Manager07:28
mfnyyea i think i have a problemwith that or something as i still get a hard reboot when starting x07:31
xckoshare your xorg log07:31
mfnyi cant07:32
mfnyim not on that machine right now07:34
xckocan you modprobe i915 directly then startx?07:35
xckoand even if there is some issue with i915 I think X should still work, just without using the full capabilities of your graphics card. see /var/log/Xorg.0.log for what might be going on07:37
mfnyno log there07:42
xckono Xorg logs at all under /var/log/?07:43
mfnyits blank07:45
mfnygetting to point now where im gonna have to abandon crux as i need my system back up soon07:46
mfnyive been at this for 3+ hours07:46
xckoNo logs at all is very strange. Yeah crux isn't very friendly to new comers but once learned is really really simple imo07:47
xckoI suggest reading the gentoo wiki as they have a lot of good information and include what kernel options are necessary07:49
xckothe crux wiki also has good information if you haven't read it yet07:51
xckobtw is the rss feed for bugs still up?08:01
xckoah yes I see it nvm08:05
mfnyyou tried kwort ?08:07
xckoI'm not familiar with it. what's kwort?08:07
mfnyits a distro based on CRUX08:08
xckouh no I've never used it.08:09
mfnyim gonna try it as it looks like crux but a bit more precofigured08:11
xckogood luck :)08:12
mfnyoh nevermind its not that easy, still has no installer etc08:13
mfnyknow of a good distro that is interesting,slim,fast but not to unfriendly?08:14
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xckogiven void a shot yet?08:14
mfnyi used void a while back .. was actuly quite impressed08:16
mfnymight give it another go08:16
xckowhat were you using before?08:17
mfnyoh ive used them all, im a bit of an OS tourist heh08:18
xckogo 9front or minix then08:19
frinnsteveryone already  runs minix08:19
frinnst:>08:19
xckoopen risc-v ftw!08:20
mfnyim a fan of 9front actuly but it does not work on my current setup at all, video driver issues08:20
mfnyyou could say ... the front fell off08:20
frinnstis that uncommon?08:21
mfnyyes, for some reason even though it should work fine it does not08:22
mfnymy setup is an Intel HD200008:22
mfnyso its about as generic a GPU as it gets yet it dont work08:22
mfnyohh, FatDog looks interesting.. based on Puppy08:24
joacimim sure someone will try to replace it with templeos08:24
joacimi think it's one of terry davis' demands. that intel burns templeos to rom08:24
mfnyhaha08:24
xckosome day we'll have doom on ring -308:25
xckomfny: presume you've been through the bsd's as well?08:26
mfnyyep08:26
mfnyive seen it all mannnn08:26
xckomaybe templeos08:26
mfnyhm, yes i think ill take this FatDog out for a a walk, the ISO is only 300mb and the distrowatch review is positive08:28
xckoor sabotage linux. It's been on my radar for a minute08:29
xckotinycore I think is an interesting project too08:32
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xckoI've never actually watched terry's videos before08:46
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frinnstthey are pretty sad09:09
frinnstlast I heard he was homeless and wanted for assault09:10
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frinnstanybody using an ivybridge i7?11:05
frinnstwhats your temps like11:05
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: vim: update to 8.0.138611:35
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: gvim: update to 8.0.138611:36
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: whois: update to 5.2.1911:37
joacimonly sandybridge11:44
frinnstusing a stock cooler.. gets hot as hell when stressing it11:46
frinnstidle temps are around 30-35C. under load: 80-8511:47
frinnstfrom what i've read its not uncommon - just want to double check with a real person if possible11:48
joacimyeah i hear it is normal for ivybridge to get hot11:58
frinnsthow hot does your tr get? and what temps did you get with ryzen?12:12
frinnstmine idles arounnd ~5C over ambient12:13
frinnst~45C when stressed12:13
frinnstaccording to k10-temp12:13
joacimi dont know tbh. i just use the display on the motherboard to report it12:13
joacimbut apparently there is an issue with it12:13
joacimthe ryzen/tr temperature patch is included in 4.14?12:14
frinnstno, 4.1512:14
frinnsti've backported the patch12:14
joacimah.12:14
joacimthe fans should ramp up with higher temperatures, and this system stays very quiet most of the time12:14
joacimi'll check if the it87 module will report anything when i come home12:16
frinnstmy it87 temps were a looooot higher fwiw12:17
joacimah. hmm12:17
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joacimthe motherboard lcd seems to report about 40C12:17
joacimgot the 120mm cooler from noctua on it12:18
joacimwith two fans12:18
frinnstI have a thermalright archon with one fan12:18
joacimi can update the bios, since asrock changed it to use tctl for temperature readout12:19
frinnsthttp://thermalright.com/product/archon-rev-a/12:19
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joacim4.15 has a release candidate, so i guess it wont be too soon until it is here12:49
frinnstthey are usually safe to test12:50
joacim"Links you provide indicate few users worldwide had issues with this BIOS version"13:30
joacimtells me older versions show the same trend13:31
joacimso i decided to look it up. search for issues related to older versions, and found nothing but a few mentions of feature regressions. not bricked boards13:31
joacimall mentions of bricked boards seems related to the firmware version i installed13:31
joacimthis asus guy im stuck with is starting to piss me off a bit13:32
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SiFuhtrying to register a sim card and I don't exist14:18
SiFuhhmmm wonder how long before the sales rep gives up14:19
SiFuhor by passes the ID activation14:19
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joacimfrinnst: idles around 60C. TR has a 27C offset14:27
joacim60C reported14:27
joacimso about 10-15C over ambient i think14:28
frinnstnot too bad14:28
joacimthats also with a quiet fan profile. fans running at about 600 RPM14:28
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john_cephalopodaHi14:29
joacimheyo14:29
jaegerfrinnst: I don't have one myself but I've read many reports of that as well - delidding those was very popular14:32
frinnstyeah im running with a stock cooler also. it gets pretty loud when im building stuff :)14:32
joacimsounds like my i5-469014:32
joacimwith the stock cooler, it ran very hot, and got very loud14:33
john_cephalopodaACTION . o O ( Rating electric cars by the fan noise )14:33
joacimthe fan would also ramp up and down14:33
joacima nice car is quiet i think14:33
john_cephalopodaMy GPU once was very loud. Opened it and picked out a giant, compact dust block. After that, it stopped being audible :D14:34
joacim94C under load. again without subtracting the 27C offset14:34
john_cephalopodajoacim: A lot of people got the opinion, that a good car must be loud.14:34
SiFuhSiFuh WINS AGAIN!14:35
SiFuhmuhahaha14:35
joacima loud car can be annoying14:35
joacimbut loud cars can be pleasing if the noise is just right14:35
joacimi should probably change the fan profiles some, so they run a bit faster when temps are higher14:36
john_cephalopodaLoud cars are usually built in a way, that you hear a lot outsides (because one has to show off) but not much inside (because it would ruin dates with the ones you impressed with your loud motor).14:37
joacimi dont really understand whats happening more recently with cars14:38
joacimthey use the sound system to augment sound. so that it sounds like a v12 instead of a v8 with a turbo14:38
joacima v8 with a turbo can also sound nice14:38
joacimtho not as nice as a straight 614:38
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: jre: update to 9.0.114:40
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: json-c: update to 0.1314:40
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: newsboat: initial release14:40
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: [notify] newsbeuter: removed14:40
SiFuhI just spent 40 minutes convincing a representative I exist, if though I don't only to have yself actually exist ;-)14:44
SiFuhI just spent 40 minutes convincing a representative that I exist, even though I don't. Only to have myself actually exist :-)14:46
john_cephalopodaIn the German children book "Jim Knopf und Lukas der Lokomotivführer", Jim and Lukas arrive in China and got no passport. They are then told, that they don't exist because they have no passport. And then they wreak havoc :D14:50
SiFuhSounds like me14:56
SiFuhI am registering a sim card with a chinese passport that doesn't exist14:57
SiFuhI managed to register one under Kim Jon Eun   that was easy14:57
SiFuhnow I want the second and they verify I don't exist14:57
joacimi think there are people in norway that end up like that. usually one norwegian parent, and doesn't have a registered citizenship with any country14:57
joacimi guess one could get an international passport =)14:58
SiFuhSeems cool, I know he forwarded it to a higer representative and  then skipped the validation process14:58
joacimgetting a burner sim for illegal activities?14:58
SiFuhinternational passport goes under world passport and it can land you in prison sometimes.14:58
SiFuhjoacim: if i want  burner i'd get one.14:59
joacimyeah. i guess those are harder to get around with too these days, due to the migration stuff happening in europe14:59
SiFuhI am getting a sim that I can use for work.14:59
joacimsomething is wrong when it is easier to get a burner sim than one registered in your own name14:59
SiFuhI don't like anything registered in my name... unfortunately have to register my motorbike and licence and passport..  but the rest is all in alias      and not for illegal purposes15:00
SiFuhjoacim: correct  the world is fscked15:00
frinnstfsck usually corrects errors15:00
frinnst:>15:00
SiFuhusually15:03
john_cephalopodafsck only works on Linux filesystems.15:05
john_cephalopodaApparently the world is something proprietary.15:05
SiFuhwe have fsck in unix15:07
SiFuhThe system utility fsck (file system consistency check) is a tool for checking the consistency of a file system in Unix and Unix-like operating systems, such as Linux, macOS, and FreeBSD.15:08
SiFuhLove how they say  and FreeBSD like it a seperate system of its own.15:09
john_cephalopodautil-linux fsck is only for linux though ;þ15:11
SiFuhYou just appended the prefix didn't you? :-P15:12
john_cephalopodaGNU userspace replaced the original unix userspace tools.15:12
john_cephalopodaSince GNU's Not Unix. :þ15:12
SiFuhhahaha15:13
joacimits just grammar15:17
joacimits how i would write it15:17
pedjaSiFuh, what do you mean by 'like it is a separate system of its own'?15:42
pedjathis might be interesting http://www.unix-diagram.org/15:45
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SiFuhpedja: Linux has many distros, BSD has a few Distros...  But on wikipedia it appears FreeBSD is it's own OS.15:50
pedjait is15:50
SiFuhpedja: look at it in context15:50
SiFuhit is like saying  4wd's, Awd's front wheel drive and Toyota.15:51
john_cephalopodaBut is FreeBSD free or libre? ;þ15:51
pedjaBSD variants are not 'distros', they have different kernel, user tools, init systems15:51
SiFuhpedja: don't fight it... read my ENGLISH ;-)15:52
SiFuhand yes I understand pedja what you are trying to say....15:52
john_cephalopodaI like how Plan 9 from Bell Labs got a fork called "Plan B" :D15:54
SiFuhhaha I love Plan 915:54
SiFuhGood movie too. I watch it every year ;-)15:54
john_cephalopodaI feel like developing a set of small, usable, portable applications.15:55
john_cephalopodaThings like libreoffice/openoffice/soffice, firefox/chromium, and qt5 are just giant and take ages to compile. Or have so many dependencies that compiling is a nightmare.15:56
john_cephalopodaSure, they got a lot of features. But I think that most of those features are pretty useless.15:56
pedjacompiling and dependencies are an issue for 0.1% of users16:02
SiFuhhttps://scratch.mit.edu/projects/869975/16:02
pedjafor all others, all of that is apt/zypper/dnf/conda install away16:03
SiFuhglenda16:03
john_cephalopodapedja: Sure, but that 1% must be annoyed as hell ;)16:15
john_cephalopodaIt's often no fun at all, to package stuff for Crux.16:16
pedjapackaging is not that hard, maintaining it is the tedious part :)16:18
john_cephalopodaDepends :D16:19
john_cephalopodaWhen packages just go from libsomething-1.2.3.tar.xz to libsomething-1.2.4.tar.xz, it's not really hard.16:19
john_cephalopodaExample for qtcreator: You have to find out, where the source is hosted. qt makes it not that simple. (KDE Frameworks are even more hidden and obscure...).16:21
pedjaversions mean fuck all. sometimes minor update requires more work than major one16:21
john_cephalopodaThen you let it build. Can take an hour or more for qt5.16:21
SiFuhpedja: yeah, Linux kernel hasn't changed much16:21
john_cephalopodaAnd in the end, you prtverify and it puts something into some directory that shouldn't be used.16:22
pedjaSiFuh, 5.0 will be out sometime next year, iirc :)16:22
john_cephalopodaIn my case, it was discussed in the archlinux forums and I could derive a patch easily.16:22
SiFuhgod help us all ;-)16:22
SiFuhI am watching Top Gear in Myanmar (old but i never saw it before)16:25
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john_cephalopoda2.5 - 2.25 - 15 - 3.5 - 2.5+16:26
john_cephalopodaThat's how many years it took from one Linux version to the next one.16:27
john_cephalopodaMajor versions.16:27
SiFuhi remember when it rolled over to 2.X.X16:27
joacimi joined right after the rollover to 2.616:28
SiFuhI even remember having to compile Linux kernel on Minix16:28
joacimdont think i've ever had any real experience with 2.4 or earlier16:28
SiFuhfscking head ache, and it supported a floppy drive and a vga port16:28
SiFuhCGA hahaha CGA screen  ATX Keyboard and a turtle ;-)16:29
john_cephalopoda2.0 to 2.2 [2.5y] - 2.2 to 2.4 [2y] - 2.4 to 2.6 [3y] - 2.6 to 3.0 [7.5 years]16:29
pedjaqgis build is a little faster after the switch to ninja. Interesting.16:35
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john_cephalopodampv, although being a fork of mplayer, compiles A LOT faster than mplayer.16:37
john_cephalopodapedja: Oh, I think I got qgis packaged somewhere :þ16:37
pedjadidn't they remove a bunch of stuff from mplayer?16:37
pedjaqgis-2.18 --> 3.x migration should be interesting, from the packaging POV16:40
pedjaqt5, python316:41
pedjaI'll stick with 2.18 until 3.2 replaces it as LTR16:42
pedjaall relevant plugins should be ported by then16:42
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: Revert "jre: update to 9.0.1"17:04
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john_cephalopodapedja: mpv feels like it is more capable than mplayer.20:22
pedjacapable how?20:23
john_cephalopodaWhen I start mplayer, it doesn't present me any control elements in the player.20:24
john_cephalopodaAlso last time I tried, it wasn't that good with youtube links and other streams.20:24
john_cephalopodaIt might be, that mplayer has some features that mpv doesn't have, but I never ran into those features.20:25
pedjaI rarely use mplayer directly, prefer smplayer as a frontend for it20:27
john_cephalopodaOh, right, mpv also tends to play DVDs properly.20:33
john_cephalopodampv and smplayer get very confused by scrambling and die.20:33
john_cephalopoda*mplayer and smplayer20:33
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pedjahm. same file, vdpau enabled for both, mpv is using 10-20% more CPU.21:07
pedjawith smplayer as frontend for both21:08
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john_cephalopoda20% mplayer vs. 30% mpv21:23
john_cephalopodaFor some reason, mpv has 16 threads, while mplayer only has one or two.21:25
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timcowchipidesk on fluxbox > http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/2017-12-13-1344561600x900scrot.php21:47
timcowchipusing idesk, like listening to an old song, makes me feel young again21:49
pedjaapparently, mpv developers think that hw accel is not that useful, and should be used only as the last resort. riight21:50
pedja0.7% CPU usage mplayer vs 5-20% mpv with h26421:51
pedjanah, I'll stick to mplayer21:52
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john_cephalopodatimcowchip: This looks like very inefficient mouse paths.21:55
john_cephalopodapedja: mpv can actually do a lot of different hw accel things if you want it to.21:55
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pedja'In general, it's very strongly advised to avoid hardware decoding unless absolutely necessary'22:00
john_cephalopodaSo there's probably some reason behind it.22:00
pedjayes, it doesn't work22:01
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pedjaor it works when the phase of the Moon is just right, idk22:02
pedjato be fair, docs do say that hw decoding works for just a few decoders22:04
joacimi find that the needed hardware decoders arent even there on my weaker machines22:05
joacimand they're not needed on my more powerful machines that do support them22:05
pedjaeven my ancient GT640 has some form of h264 hw decoding22:07
pedjaand with h264ify FF extension, I can watch YT without much issues on my potatoputer :)22:09
pedjajoacim, how many machines you have? you run a data center in the basement or what :) ?22:15
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joacimi dont know. couple of slot 1 machines, couple of socket 370 machines22:19
john_cephalopodaI'm sure that joacim runs a datacenter of 128-bit RISC-V processors in the basement.22:19
joacimthink i have a super socket 7 machine too22:19
joacimbut i'm not sure where it is22:19
joacimgot this threadripper system that replaced my sandybridge era mac mini, and i have my windows games console22:20
joacimgot a few xboxes, gamecubes, and ps2s too22:20
joacimgot the linux kit for the ps2, so that counts as a pc now i guess =)22:21
joacimsadly no amiga or anything cool like that. when they were kinda affordable, i couldn't afford one, and now i think they're just too damn expensive around here22:22
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joacimspent a lot on computer stuff this year, but i intend for my stuff to last, so i hope I wont have to upgrade my main computer for another 5-8 years22:25
john_cephalopodaNice.22:25
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pedjanext year my potatoputer turns 10 :)22:37
ryu0pedja: did you name is spudnik?22:37
joacimi had a computer in daily use for about 8 years22:38
pedjaryu0, 'spudnik' ?22:38
joacimbuilt it just as the C2D came out22:39
ryu0pedja: potato + sputnik = spudnik22:39
pedjaryu0, nice :)22:39
ryu0old pun22:39
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