IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2018-01-17

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frinnstsoooooooooooo bored11:49
ryu0frinnst: i know. package nftables. :)11:50
frinnstI did a while back actually11:50
ryu0really. i did a search for it. nowhere to be found11:50
frinnsthttps://crux.guru/crux/ports/nftables/Pkgfile11:50
ryu0i would think crux would want to eventually replace iptabls.11:50
frinnstbut havent used it in a year or two11:50
frinnstso its outdated11:50
frinnsthttps://crux.guru/11:51
frinnstlots of stuff there is broken etc. so I dont want to include it in the portdb11:51
ryu0i was thinking it might be good for 3.4 to include it in contrib or so.11:52
ryu0introduce it so people can get a feel for the "future".11:52
frinnstsure, interested in maintaining it? :)11:52
ryu0eh, why not? i just don't have commit access. lol11:52
frinnstapply!11:52
ryu0i primarily use crux in containers these days.11:53
frinnstwe are pretty much down to 4-5 active maintainers11:53
frinnstand tek has been idle for almost 68 days11:53
ryu0i'm tempted to eventually write ports for people that want an easier time with kernel maintenance.11:54
frinnsthttps://crux.nu/Main/ContribRules11:55
ryu0Hm.11:56
ryu0says something about maintaining a repo. i haven't been doing that really. hm.11:56
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: transmission-gtk: security fix for CVE-2018-570213:26
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: [notify] transmisson: security fix for CVE-2018-5702, closes FS#155713:26
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: cups-filters: update to 1.19.013:26
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: jdk: update to 1.8.0_16213:26
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: jre: update to 1.8.0_16213:26
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: sudo: update to 1.8.2213:26
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: [notify] rsync: update to 3.1.3pre1, closes FS#155813:26
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jaegerryu0: repo maintenance is a pretty easy one to start :)15:34
ryu0jaeger: i guess. i just have no web server setup right now.15:39
joacimgithub is an ok place to leave ports at15:40
joacimbitbucket too15:40
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jaegeryeah, either one of those would work for an httpup repo15:47
ryu0ok.15:47
joacimthere is neocities, but i dont know if you can hotlink plain text files15:48
jaegerI use github for a couple of them, like MATE15:48
ryu0Must be australian. :P15:48
ryu0anyway.15:48
ryu0jaeger: i suspect iptables is going to be deprecated eventually. are there plans to switch over to nftables?15:49
jaegernothing yet that I know of but it could certainly be a discussion15:49
ryu0ah. i've been experimenting with them on debian. quite nice to work with.15:50
ryu0it feels like PERL to some extent.15:51
ryu0anyway i think i'd like to see that merged as an extra to let people experiment with it sooner.15:52
ryu0not core, but maybe one day. i think it needs time. it hasn't fully replicated iptables yet.15:53
ryu0jaeger: is there anyone maintaining sysvinit still? i get the feeling it's abandoned.15:54
ryu0i know crux is generally against systemd but it may still be worth seeing if there's a maintained init that could work better for crux.15:55
ryu0not systemd OFC.15:55
][_R_][There's quite a few, but they're all service based15:55
][_R_][OpenRC, runit, upstart15:56
ryu0is that a problem? I thought sysvinit files were largely providing services.15:56
][_R_][It means a complete rewrite of all the initscripts15:56
ryu0Ah.15:56
][_R_][IMO is there anything that needs to be done to sysvinit?15:57
][_R_][Oh!  I think the suckless guys have an init15:57
ryu0No idea honestly. It just seemed prudent to stick with software that's being maintained.15:57
j_vnice thing about sysvinit is that if you want service supervision, you can start that via an rc script, like openrc15:58
][_R_][Or run something like monit or supervisord (which are meant to do supervision, but work with a old-style init)15:59
j_vyep, that too15:59
ryu0I guess so. sysvinit isn't really exposed to user processes...16:00
ryu0would be hard to exploit.16:00
ryu0assuming it has any vulnerabilities.16:00
frinnstsysvinit is more or less "completed"16:01
ryu0i suppose so. in some ways systemd is actually a step back.16:02
ryu0it's a lot harder to add little extras to stuff.16:02
ryu0in some cases impossible.16:02
ryu0like, i think i'm stuck using ifupdown instead of networkd on debian if i want to turn on my dreamplug's wifi LEDs when the carrier status of my wireless device changes.16:03
ryu0it has no hooks that i'm aware of to enable such things.16:03
ryu0unless I write a service to listen on DBUS or some crap.16:03
ryu0ugh. such a pain.16:03
][_R_][The recent infatuation with DBUS is confusing16:04
ryu0yea... i prefer writing scripts in a directory. it's a lot easier to understand.16:04
ryu0the other makes more sense if you're used to writing C code.16:04
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][_R_][Yeah, given there's not really any bash-level access to it16:04
ryu0but it's retarded to write C code for such a simple thing.16:04
ryu0in general, yea. sometimes there is but not often.16:05
ryu0systemd-sleep provides a method to run scripts on system suspend.16:05
ryu0but in general it doesn't.16:05
][_R_][That... existed before16:05
ryu0yea, as part of pm-utils.16:05
][_R_][Pretty much all of systemd's features and "features" existed elsewhere first16:05
ryu0indeed.16:06
ryu0i've just been learning about its new features because it's likely to be the "future" whether i like it or not.16:06
ryu0err16:06
ryu0scratch new.16:06
john_cephalopodaThere's still crux :þ16:07
ryu0not for this dreamplug.16:07
ryu0the ARM port dropped armv5 support.16:07
john_cephalopodaKISS and systemd doesn't work well together. :þ16:07
ryu0and arch threw KISS out with the bath water some years back.16:07
john_cephalopodaThey don't know what KISS means.16:08
][_R_][I don't think the new devs ever did16:08
ryu0yea...16:08
workodera_void seems alright16:09
ryu0i imagine it's only a matter of time before they write a systemd task scheduler.16:09
workodera_also not KISS but a bit better16:09
ryu0and try to replace cron too.16:09
][_R_][void's package manager is insane16:09
][_R_][XML everywhere.16:09
workodera_I haven;t used it mch hehe16:09
john_cephalopodaryu0: Fedora use systemd for mounting /tmp - but only that. All other stuff is still mounted with fstab.16:09
workodera_I just know they support musl and libressl16:09
][_R_][And not like "this is hard to represent in non-XML formats" but "this is basically JSON, but in XML"16:09
ryu0john_cephalopoda: really. i noticed systemd mounts a lot of FS not in fstab on debian.16:10
ryu0i only need to put my actual system specific ones in it now.16:10
john_cephalopodaryu0: It probably also puts in some others, but the regular fs were mounted in fstab in fedora last time I checked.16:10
j_valpine works pretty good... i haven't tried it for desktop, but for my vps it has been doing well16:11
ryu0yea... i'm not aware of a systemd replacement for root FS or so.16:11
ryu0j_v: package selection is rather limiting though.16:11
ryu0LEDE is also an interesting project.16:11
j_vryu0: that is true, but it has everything i need for a small web server16:12
ryu0they use busybox's init.16:12
ryu0but it's kinda hard to use. you're basically compiling device firmware to make it usable.16:13
ryu0if you make custom images.16:13
ryu0it works but the resource constraints are quite tight.16:13
ryu0probably why systemd will never fly there.16:13
ryu0LEDE runs on devices of 32-64 MB at the low end from what i've seen.16:14
ryu0RAM16:14
ryu0this dreamplug... has 512MB and that's a lot for ARM. lol16:14
][_R_][Yeah.  gc-linux is also pretty resource constrained16:14
frinnsthow long have you been running it?16:15
frinnstmy sheevaplugs psu died after about 2 years16:15
jaegerryu0: thought about trying to make your own armv5 port?16:16
frinnstand the guruplug was pintless16:16
frinnstpointless*16:16
jaegerProbably wouldn't be too tough and might be a good learning thing :)16:16
john_cephalopodacrux for armv5 :þ16:17
jaegerI still sorta maintain a crux-i686 port, I think it'd be similar16:18
jaeger(in terms of effort, not arch)16:18
frinnstdidnt crux-arm support globalscales plugs way back?16:18
frinnstiirc i ran crux on it. or maybe it was just pkgutils and a few ports16:18
john_cephalopodaIt will take ages, but if there is a RISC-V device one day and I got it, I'll try to port crux to it.16:21
ryu0frinnst: oh. i got it used recently.16:27
ryu0frinnst: the PSU is external.16:27
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ryu0... Seriously?17:23
ryu0HP made a product named Omen?17:24
jaegerOne of my coworkers bought one and seems to really like it... will see if he changes his mind :)17:40
jaegerthe goofy big cube one17:41
ryu0jaeger: spongebob robotpants?17:54
ryu0lol17:54
frinnstfitting name for HP17:56
joacimi like how absolutely sorry amazon is when you have an issue =)18:04
joacimdont seem that genuine, but i guess the lawyers that wrote these canned replies had a lot of fun18:05
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: ca-certificates: updated to 2018011718:06
DaViruzi'm not sure lawyers can have fun, or even have a sense of humor18:07
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga5X6WnC8Qo18:07
joacimthose crocodile tears cannot be real. they must have had fun18:08
tilmanjohn_cephalopoda: doesn't sifive offer risc-v devices already?18:24
ryu0frinnst: yea, HP consumer sucks. their only good products are business or enterprise.18:27
ryu0i'm considering their mobile thin clients. they might be OK.18:28
ryu0sometime.18:28
ryu0What do you call BatMan and Robin after they've put on some weight?18:46
ryu0FatMan and Blobbin.18:46
rmullACTION *crickets*19:09
john_cephalopodatilman: They are working on it and development kits are distributed rn.19:10
john_cephalopodaBut I don't know when the actual release will come19:10
john_cephalopodaI'll have to see if the price is right.19:10
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j_vrunning kernel 4.14.14 (built with gcc-7.3.0-RC-20180117) on AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor; dmesg shows: [    0.012779] Spectre V2 mitigation: Mitigation: Full AMD retpoline20:05
j_vwill have to work on setting up some perf tests to see what the impact is on performance20:09
frinnstsweet20:16
j_vi can publish my gcc7 port if there's an interest... it is basic build, just removed multilib and installed to /opt/gcc7. easy to target that gcc for building with by setting path to PATH=/opt/gcc7/bin:$PATH on kernel make command line20:20
frinnstwhat source did you use?20:20
frinnsta snapshot or something else?20:20
j_vtodays snapshot20:20
j_vi was patching, but snap seemed easier20:20
frinnstftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/unix/languages/gcc/snapshots/LATEST-7/ ?20:21
frinnstah20:21
j_vhttps://gcc.gnu.org/pub/gcc/snapshots/7.3.0-RC-20180117/20:23
j_vshould be the same, i think20:23
j_vmy usual paste method is not working, server returning 500 error, or i would have pasted it by now20:24
frinnstyeah the mirror must have just updated. I only saw a 7.2 rc first20:30
frinnstbuilding it now20:30
j_vhttps://gist.github.com/jvvv/2fd19dfda12a522af7adce60b4cfeaa420:33
j_vahh, cool... i doubt you will have issues you can't handle. but, well, that's my Pkgfile for it anyways.20:36
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frinnstIm using our 7.2 Pkgfile - just changed the version and url20:38
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j_vthat was where i started from, but i just wanted a private install in opt so i could keep 3.3/gcc for usual builds in case i run into issues20:39
j_valso, from what i've read, i'm not convinced that there is any benefit from the -mindirect-* stuff in userland, but not really sure about that20:40
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