IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2018-01-22

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marakuhow do y'all keep microcode updated?00:38
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jaegerYou pretty much have 2 options as far as I know - BIOS updates or software00:42
jaegerfor the software method you can use an early initrd/initramfs or iucode_tool00:43
jaegerfor intel at least00:43
jaegerOn the AMD side I think it's part of linux-firmware00:43
brian|lfswow eagles are just wearing the Vikings defense out01:27
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.3]: nettle-32: 3.3 -> 3.401:49
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nwedoes someone know if you can force pxeboot to load pxelinux.cfg/default file before mac-address file ?06:22
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frinnstsurely you can embed the firmware in the kernel? I used to do that with radeon firmware06:58
frinnststill have the problem of early loading i guess08:04
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frinnsthttp://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/04628.html happy linus08:41
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: mdadm: fix build with gcc 711:28
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dbrookeyeah, I build the kernel with options https://stuff.dbrooke.me.uk/sp-vgq3ew [    0.000000] microcode: microcode updated early to revision 0x23, date = 2017-11-2011:29
frinnstah it autoloads it then?11:33
frinnstis it buggy? We are completely unpatched for meltdown here at work :(11:34
frinnstno patches available for esxi nor linux afaik11:34
frinnstand all released firmware have been pulled back, no?11:35
pedja20180108 is still there11:36
pedjathere were issues with some CPUs, iirc11:36
pedja'microcode updated early to revision 0xa0b, date = 2010-09-28' :( no update for me11:42
frinnststill waiting for asus to patch the ME crap on my motherboard here at work11:43
frinnstdoubt it will ever happen11:43
pedjaIME?11:43
frinnstyeah11:44
pedjadon't hold your breath :)11:44
pedjaI like AMD trolling Intel with 'you don't like/need ME? Here, have a BIOS option to turn it off'11:46
frinnstnot on my MB11:46
pedjaiirc, Gigabyte and couple of others pushed that in UEFI update recently11:47
joacimhavent seen any updates for my intel board either11:47
joacimthat one is about 3-4 years old11:47
joacimasrock rack hasnt done anything meaningful either11:49
frinnsthttps://www.asus.com/News/q5R9EixxfAqo1anZ11:52
frinnsthttps://www.asus.com/News/8IAtizQDZJOryjPh11:52
frinnstnothing11:53
pedjapatience :)11:54
frinnstlol11:54
joacimsociety collapses and everyone moves back to type writers and fax machines11:55
pedjain reality, 99% of the people just don't care11:56
frinnstwell when regular news outlets start picking it up people do begin to wonder11:56
dbrookeI got the microcode from https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/27431/Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-File and 20180108 is the latest which resulted in loading 2017-11-20 for my CPU11:57
dbrookeit's stable for me but I don't know what/how much it fixes11:58
dbrookekernel is [    0.000000] Linux version 4.14.14 (root@cubitt) (gcc version 6.4.0 (CRUX-x86_64-multilib)) #1 SMP Wed Jan 17 18:29:03 GMT 201811:58
pedjadbrooke, you can check with https://github.com/speed47/spectre-meltdown-checker (but read the disclaimer in the README)12:03
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pedjamy defence against Meltdown and Spectre variant 2 is (your CPU vendor reported your CPU model as not vulnerable) :)12:05
pedjadefense*. obviously12:07
dbrookenice 8-)12:12
dbrookeI'll look at the checker later ...12:13
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john_cephalopodapedja: "defense" is AE while "defence" is BE.12:44
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pedjareally? so, one of those 'color vs colour, aluminium vs aluminum' differences? never occurred to me13:11
pedjateachers at school preferred BE ('the proper one'), and I picked up a lot of AE on my own, so the result is a big mess13:13
joacimeveryone knows it is aluminium13:18
frinnstwtf microcode: updated to revision 0x1c, date = 2015-02-2613:35
pedjayeah, I don't expect that Intel will update the microcode for all CPUs they made :)13:40
ryu0frinnst: their solution? Buy a new processor. :>13:41
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joacimhow about a 486?13:49
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pedjaworks fine in Mars Rover, afaict13:52
pedjajoacim, you're from .no? https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/half-norways-population-may-have/13:55
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joacimi know about that14:20
joacimand central norwegian health data isnt part of it =)14:21
joacimseems rather shady to me. they blame china. but to my thinking, that kind of attacks would happen through a vpn or tor anyways14:21
joacimunless it is totally safe to not give a shit when you live in china14:22
pedjaor Russia :)14:43
pedjaof course, if the attack came from China, that doesn't mean that the people behind it are in China14:50
pedjaor whatever14:51
joacimmight be the sami liberation army14:51
pedjait's a smart strategy. bounce of the boxes far away :)14:51
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pedjain HN thread about Linus not being happy with Intel, someone complains that reading e-mail thread is too hard and that the interface is 'not modern'.16:40
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pedjawhat does 'not modern' even mean? no emojis?16:41
joacimkids today communicate purely by emoji16:41
joacimi guess they need a shitload of javascript to find it comfortable16:42
joacimthe extra heat of the cpu is nice during the colder months16:42
pedjaand now I am wondering what emoji would Linus use :)16:43
joacimthe one shaped like a turd? =)16:43
joacimunless all his replies would just be a thinking emoji16:44
pedjapenguin with a flamethrower16:44
john_cephalopodaIt doesn't have a like button.16:44
john_cephalopoda(You can subscribe though.)16:44
pedjathe issue they have was with readability. 'what do all those left arrows mean?'16:45
joacimthe like button fixed something16:45
pedjaI dislike the like button16:46
joacimwhen you post something on a forum and you get 10-15 replies just saying "I agree"16:46
joacimcomplete waste screen real estate. rather just have a like button for those people16:47
joacimwaste of*16:47
pedja'I agree' under the full quoted text. argh.16:48
joacimpeople that insist on having the complete opposite opinion, and refuse to listen to your own arguments are much better than "I agree"16:48
joacimat least they're discussing something16:48
joacimworst part is when you get a notification, and it's just an "I agree"16:48
john_cephalopodaOn the other hand, having 5000 likes and 1000 dislikes doesn't tell you anything, while a constructively critisising comment would make more sense.16:55
pedjatrouble with that, unfortunately, is that some people take that form of criticism as a personal attack.16:59
pedjaeven with technical discussions, which are about, well, technical stuff :)17:01
pedjawhy some people can get offended by pretty much anything you say to them is a great mystery to me17:03
pedjathen again, I don't understand humans that well, anyway17:06
pedjaheh. Apple fanboy that I follow on Twitter had to lock and set his account to private after the shitstorm he caused.17:14
pedjahis 'if you can't afford a Mac, you are a filthy peasant working for minimum wage and not worthy of Apple greatness' didn't go so well. surprise, that.17:16
pedjarehash of the old and boring 'only people that can't afford Apple don't like Apple' line17:18
john_cephalopodaComments on videos or pictures (like on youtube and instagram) are usually horrible.17:19
john_cephalopodaimgur has some nice comments under pictures though.17:20
pedjaI use Stylus to disable the cancer that are YT comments17:21
john_cephalopodaI think that the imgur thing is probably due to imgur being quite democratic. Everybody on there is a creator and can get a hit by posting an interesting story.17:21
john_cephalopodaOn youtube, there's a divide between content creators that shove out a few videos per week, and content consumers, who rarely post videos and post more comments.17:22
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pedjasome YT channels have moderated comments, or 'just' a non-toxic community around it17:24
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joacimi used the shut up extension for safari for a while17:46
joacimwas pretty nice =)17:46
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pedja'not everyone can and should be a programmer'. if he meant 'professional developer', I would agree. Otherwise, it's BS18:07
pedjaimho, programming, in essence, is making a machine do the work so I don't have to18:09
pedjaso, why wouldn't 'ordinary' people learn the basics of it, if it can make their life/work a bit easier?18:10
pedjahell, Excel team at Microsoft is planning to ship Python with it soon-ish18:11
pedjamy former coworker is optimising G-code for a bunch of CNC machines because he has 20+ years of domain knowledge in his head.18:15
pedjais he a developer? no. is he a programmer, even if it's not in his job title? I think so18:17
pedja</rant> sorry about that18:20
ryu0pedja: error: missing opening tag 'rant'18:28
pedjaheh18:35
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ryu0pedja: who said that anyway?18:46
ryu0pedja: i somewhat can see where they're coming from. i've met a lot of people i don't think are cut out for programming in any capacity.18:47
pedjait was one of the comments on a national plan to include programming in primary schools18:48
ryu0then again maybe they started too late.18:49
ryu0i don't really know.18:49
ryu0i suppose though you could say that about anyone. some people just are unteachable.18:50
ryu0in one area or another.18:50
tilmanpedja: i laughed hard at the HN webidiots not understanding a mailing list archive :)18:51
ryu0HN?18:51
pedjahackerNews18:52
ryu0what's that?18:52
tilmannews.ycombinator.com18:52
ryu0oh yahoo18:52
joacimdont think they need to teach kids to program18:52
joacimbetter to take away their iphones and ipads, and teach them to be curious about technology and computers18:53
ryu0i'm not going to pretend to know what's best for kids.18:53
joacimwhat i say18:53
ryu0maybe it would be beneficial.18:53
ryu0but i don't know. will it take the place of something else?18:54
ryu0what's the cost?18:54
joacimi also think kids that dont behave should be beaten with a stick. and force fed vitamins every morning by their teachers18:54
ryu0including it means an extra cost you have to pay somehow.18:54
pedjainstead of religion study/social science, iirc :)18:55
joacimdont be wasteful, and let schools have off-lease business laptops and workstations =)18:55
joacimi dont even know what people mean by "social science"18:55
ryu0yea... realistically schools don't need cutting edge.18:55
ryu0CS hasn't changed so much that the equipment needs to be incredible.18:55
joacimhistory, religion, and other social stuff is useful and good for kids to know18:55
pedjaonly one religion, in this case18:56
joacimin elementary school, i had to go through christianity class18:56
joacimbut that was dropped when i joined the local waldorf school18:57
pedja'waldorf'?18:57
joacimin highschool, there was religion class, which was mostly about teaching you about common religions than telling you about christianity itself18:57
joacimi think we call them steiner schools here18:57
joacimhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner18:58
pedjaI think that in what's in theory secular state, any study of religion should be organised and held at church space, not in schools.19:00
joacimthat would limit people's exposure to religion to only your own tho19:00
joacimi think it is good that typically christian kids gets to learn a bit about hinduism, islam, buddhism19:01
pedjawell, afaik, they are only exposed to the major religion here, anyway19:01
joacimgood for islamic kids to also learn about christianity19:01
pedjaone of the worst things imported here from the West is anti-vaxer 'movement'19:04
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joacimi dont watch the news, but i dont think that's big here19:06
pedjathe result? we are on a brink of a smallpox epidemic.19:06
pedjabecause parents trust more a fscking 'celebrity' than a doctor19:07
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frinnstkill facebook and stuff like it = problem solved20:34
john_cephalopodapedja: Actually the anti-vaxxer thing was started by a scientific paper of a doctor. Later it was proven that he faked the data and lost his degree. But the damage is done.21:07
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joacimsweden started that shit during the 1870s i think21:13
pedjawhen Italy made vaccination mandatory, with harsh penalties for parents, anti-vaxxers lost their shit. it was glorious21:16
pedjajohn_cephalopoda, according to them, that 'doctor' was killed by big pharma for 'telling the truth' :)21:22
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: cmake: updated to 3.10.2. Closes FS#156221:58
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