IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2018-02-06

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jaegerhrmm... I think I need to get a linux laptop again... 9-year-old macbook pro isn't so great03:20
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abenzjaeger: thinkpad a27503:50
abenzupcoming should be zen based, pricey tho.03:50
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jaegerinteresting, will take a look05:26
jaegerAre the A12 models based on zen?05:29
jaegeror will they actually be called ryzen too?05:30
jaegerAh, looks like the A series are pre-zen05:30
jaegerSo will have to keep an eye out, upcoming as you said05:31
abenzyup, current ones are excavator based05:36
abenzupcoming should be zen05:36
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ryuojaeger: you can look at Clevo barebones.06:15
ryuojaeger: assuming the $600+ price range is in your budget.06:15
jaegerI used to have a sager laptop many years ago (clevo resell), it was great06:15
jaegerwith that said, I may gamble on a xiaomi mi notebook pro06:15
jaegerthe i5/8gb model06:16
jaegerThe gamble is on ordering it from china... the laptop itself seems pretty decent and reviews reasonably well06:17
ryuorjtech sells Clevo directly. Might be an option if you already live in the US.06:17
ryuoSystem76 uses the same HW but they're marked up a fair bit.06:18
jaegerI'll look over the options tomorrow, going to bed now :)06:18
ryuoUp to 20% i've seen.06:18
jaegeryeah, system76 is proud of their stuff06:18
ryuoYea, but if it's the same, is there a reason to buy it from System76?06:18
jaegerI suppose they do test and guarantee but is that worth the extra? Maybe, if you want to support linux laptop companies06:19
ryuoWell, it's up to you. I'm just mentioning it here.06:19
jaegeryeah, all good. Just commenting06:19
jaegerFor now, though, off to bed. Night :)06:19
ryuoXiaomi Mi I thought was Windows laptop originally anyway?06:19
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cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: man-pages: update to 4.1507:53
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: man-db: update to 2.8.007:53
cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: hdparm: update to 9.5407:53
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hermes2xgreatHello all09:05
john_cephalopodaHey hermes2xgreat09:10
hermes2xgreatHey john_cephalopoda09:14
hermes2xgreatI'm new to IRC and thought the most interesting way to start is by visiting crux and learning more about the OS09:15
john_cephalopodaWelcome :D09:15
ryuoLesson 1: get a *real* IRC client. D:09:16
hermes2xgreatwell, before jumping into weechat, I better start with a GUI09:17
ryuohexchat is a common choice.09:17
hermes2xgreatGUIs usually help me understand in the beginning09:17
hermes2xgreatthrough I use cli for most things09:17
hermes2xgreatmail, file browser, etc09:18
hermes2xgreatI'm currently running Void but want to make the switch to Crux09:18
hermes2xgreatthat said, I've been battling with things like xbacklight, acpi, usb3 ports, etc09:19
john_cephalopodaI'm running hexchat. It has a GUI and is very nice.09:19
john_cephalopodaxbacklight is simple. "xbacklight -set <brightness in percent>"09:20
john_cephalopodaUSB 3.0 should work out-of-the-box.09:20
john_cephalopodaI never did anything with ACPI, it seems to be a mess.09:20
hermes2xgreaton a thinkpad it complains about no output device09:20
hermes2xgreator something along those lines09:20
hermes2xgreatI thought USB 3 would work too, but in some distros I need linux-headers and Crux doesn't seem to provide that09:21
hermes2xgreatI have a ThinkPad x23009:22
hermes2xgreatI am a meme09:22
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john_cephalopodahermes2xgreat: You got the whole kernel source always available on CRUX.09:31
ryuofyi people, should now be fully functional again.09:34
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hermes2xgreatjohn_cephalopoda thank you!10:02
hermes2xgreatperhaps I made an error when building the kernel10:03
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Romsterhermes2xgreat, our linux headers are part of glibc port12:08
Romsteralso you didn't forget to do make modules_install in the kernel source for crux and any distro that allows you do do your kernel yourself.12:10
hermes2xgreat<Romster> thank you for the information12:14
hermes2xgreatI'm in the process of reinstalling Crux now12:15
hermes2xgreathow are you guys mounting usb, external hdd drives?14:02
joacimusually some kind of automounter with a file manager like thunar or whatever mate calls theirs14:03
hermes2xgreatI use pcmanfm because it's so light, but I guess I'll give thunar a try14:04
hermes2xgreatI wasn't able to use udisks214:04
hermes2xgreatgvfs won't build :(14:04
AnselmoACTION tends to just use mount or fstab14:04
hermes2xgreatstill no xbacklight :(14:05
hermes2xgreatusb 3.0 is working14:05
joacimi guess you can do that with pcmanfm too14:12
joacimusually you just need a volume manager of sorts14:12
hermes2xgreatgot it!14:15
hermes2xgreatthak guys14:15
hermes2xgreatthanks guys14:15
jaegerryuo: aren't most laptops sort of "windows laptops"? :) I don't need it to come with linux preinstalled (I'd only replace the preinstalled version with crux anyway), I just want it to run linux better than my 9 year old macbook pro does14:44
jaegerWhich is not a high bar14:44
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joacimis getting a brand new laptop working with linux still a bit of a gamble?15:21
jaegerdepends on the hardware, of course... but I always try to find some info from someone who's already done it if I buy one15:22
brainzmanI have a problem with the certificate of crux.ster.zone15:22
brainzmanAnyway to ignore it?15:22
jaegerIf you use wget, try --no-check-certificate... if you use curl, try -k15:24
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brainzmanShould I mount /tmp as tmpfs?16:06
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pedjahm. looks like hexchat doesn't work with enchant-2.2.3 for some reason.16:59
pedjaclaws-mail works fine16:59
pedjathis is git master hexchat, not the opt one17:00
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j_vpedja, do you think it's a build issue or runtime issue?17:27
pedjaj_v, I am not sure. my theory is that something changed between enchant 2.1.x and 2.2.x so the way hechat uses it no longer works17:37
pedjaone of the hexchat opened an issue on GH for it, so we'll see17:38
pedjahexchat developers*17:38
j_vyou could double check that it's built against enchant with 'readelf -d /usr/bin/hexchat | grep libenchant'17:38
pedjanope. I tried ldd too, same thing.17:41
j_vif that returns empty, then probably not built against it17:41
j_vi doubt that it's built against the static lib17:41
pedjaI looked at the build log, no mention of enchant there, afaict17:42
j_venchant changing their pkg-config file name was pretty f'ing useless, unless the had a major API change17:42
pedjathey did break API/ABI, iirc17:43
pedjathey could be installed side-by-side, in theory. in practice, it's messy17:44
j_vah, well, i can see the point then, but yeah, messy17:45
pedjacommon part, enchant1 specific part, enchant2 specific part.17:45
pedjanobody wants to maintain that17:46
pedjaand apps should upgrade to 2.x anyway, according to the upstream17:46
pedjait's not a major breakage, otherwise claws-mail wouldn't work17:49
j_vi forgot that it comes from abiword folks... they are pretty good at breaking shit17:49
pedjaenchant is run-time dependency, so it makes sense that ldd doesn't list it17:52
j_vok, so hexchat could be dlopen'ing it then, so yeah, that wouldn't show up...17:54
pedjaapparently, hexchat looks for, and in 2.2.3 that is
pedjait can't be this easy... I'll edit that file, rebuild hexchat, see how badly it breaks :)17:58
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pedjayup, it works now :)18:08
j_vit would be an easy hack to get hexchat to find src/fe-gtk/sexy-spell-entry.c:169: add entry for
j_vno, that's in current git sources... not the release18:12
pedjahere is the 'patch' in all its glory
j_vyep, that will do it, but not for the release version i think, only for current git HEAD18:14
pedjaI use git master, so it works for me :)18:15
j_vahh, cool18:15
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nexus6Hello, all.19:08
nexus6The CRUX handbook's installation instructions don't seem to involve setting up an initial RAM disk (initrd/initramfs). But I seem to recall reading somewhere that a UEFI environment needs one. Is this true?19:13
frinnstno, you dont need a initrd for uefi19:14
nexus6As long as I compile in all my hardware, I should be fine then.19:14
frinnstyou dont really need it unless you're doing something very special. Most distributions use it because its easier to include everything for all hardware that way19:14
frinnstcheck out the uefi wiki, its very useful19:15
nexus6The CRUX-on-UEFI page?19:15
nexus6I've read it. But thanks.19:16
frinnstcool, good luck :)19:16
nexus6What's the advantage of UEFI over BIOS anyway? GPT is clearly an advantage over MBR, but why UEFI?19:17
nexus6Is it the low memory limit?19:17
nexus6But since that only applies to the pre-boot BIOS environment, I don't see how it matters.19:18
nexus6I'll look it up. Bye.19:19
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john_cephalopodaFrom my experience, UEFI is only trouble.19:42
frinnstlarge boot device. thats the only pratical benefit that I know of19:43
fun_BIOS updates?19:46
john_cephalopodaYou can update your BIOS on Linux?19:47
john_cephalopodaThe company I know just hand out an .exe and say "Install it by running definitelynotbackdoored.exe, have fun".19:48
fun_I understand that you can update your BIOS by placing the windows binary in the right place on the efi partition19:50
ryuojaeger: what does it take to get wget/curl to not flip out with LetsEncrypt then? Browsers don't complain.19:58
jaegerryuo: curl and wget work fine with LE here... what problems are you seeing?20:01
ryuojaeger: someone earlier complained that they flipped out on I setup the HTTPS so I was wondering why. I only included the private key and the signed certificate.20:02
jaegerIt's not a valid cert currently20:02
jaegertake a look: openssl s_client -connect
joacim"Update to AGESA 1000a for new upcoming processors"20:03
joacimthe AGESA version numbers makes no sense20:03
ryuojaeger: Oh wait, are they not using SNI?20:04
joacimolder one was 107120:04
ryuothat's the fallback cert the web server uses if SNI isn't being used.20:04
joacimasus bios versions do these silly jumps too. from 1200 to 3200/340020:04
jaegerMaybe? Good question20:04
ryuoFirefox gets the right cert.20:04
jaegersounds like maybe it is an SNI issue, then20:09
ryuoNo... Hm.20:10
ryuoERROR: cannot verify's certificate, issued by ‘CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US’:20:10
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ryuoIt's not issued the fallback self-signed.20:10
ryuoDo I need to included the intermediate?20:10
jaegerProbably. Usually need all certs in the chain20:11
ryuoNot for Firefox, oddly enough.20:11
jaegerI'll admit I'm no SSL expert20:11
ryuoOk... so it's because of differences in client side SSL details...20:13
ryuoFirefox doesn't need intermediates but other clients do.20:13
jaegerThe cert I use on, for example, has both in the nginx config20:14
ryuoI'll deal with it. I'm using Hiawatha to host Romster's stuff.20:15
jaegerfirefox is cheating, maybe :)20:15
ryuoproblem solved.20:21
jaegeryep, looks ok with curl now here20:21
pedjaif I am reading this correctly, including intermediate certs is 'best practice'20:23
ryuoyea... it's not strictly necessary but some clients don't work otherwise.20:24
pedjaif it doesn't come with a performance penalty or something, why wouldn't you always do that?20:27
pedjaseems simpler20:28
john_cephalopodaIs firefox mute since the last update?20:29
tilmanthey removed the alsa backend20:31
tilmanso if you don't have pulse audio it's quite mute indeed20:31
pedjain 58, opt/firefox is ESR20:31
fun_and I thought only my ESR was mute20:33
pedja59.0b7 here definitely has sound ;)20:35
pedjajohn_cephalopoda, to what update were you referring to?20:41
john_cephalopodapedja: 58.0.1 without pulse.20:41
pedjaah, OK. I thought you had issues with Firefox port20:44
tsaopjohn_cephalopoda: there is a fix for alsa support queued for version 5920:45
tsaopjohn_cephalopoda: apply this diff and alsa shall work again:
frinnstromster knows about the cert issue20:49
frinnsttsaop: do you have the bz# for that commit?20:51
pedjaFF bugzilla for that ALSA patch
tilman spacex' falcon heavy test flight live feed20:52
frinnstwait, so they are readding alsa support?20:52
tsaopfrinnst: wasn't it already there?20:53
tsaopto me it seems they just removed some lines by accident20:53
frinnstdeprecating alsa was announced way back20:53
tsaopit is just unmaintained, or that was said at the time of deprecation20:53
frinnstthen it stopped working in 58, I assumed they killed off support20:53
tilmanturn in that fucking feed20:53
frinnstsuccess tilman? just joined it20:54
tilmank, things broke20:54
tsaopthe live stream plays well in mpv20:54
tilmani should have linked this earlier20:55
frinnsttilman: have you watched MARS?20:56
frinnstdo it20:56
pedjaNatGeo series?20:56
jaegerok, that launch was badass20:56
pedjayeah, it is good :)20:57
john_cephalopodaWow, that double-landing was amazing.20:58
john_cephalopodaIt looked exactly like it was advertised in the animations.20:59
john_cephalopodaI just wonder what happened on that drone ship.20:59
pedjafrinnst, have you read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?21:00
pedjanow *that* would be a badass Sci-Fi series21:02
pedjadone right, it could be The Expanse-level epic21:04
jaegerkerbal space program looks REALLY realistic these days21:05
tilmanthose boosters landing looked amazong :OO21:06
tilmanslight nerd chills ;]21:06
frinnstokay. that was fucking epic21:08
DaViruzthe obvious cover up of the core stage was a bit lame though.21:10
pedjathey sent Asimov's Foundation series as a payload? cool21:20
DaViruz"don't panic" was pretty neat too21:20
tilmanpedja: and a tesla roadster ;)21:20
jaegerthe 4th car we've shot into space21:20
pedjaupgrade from the Moon buggie :)21:21
pedjatilman, that Tesla roadster would come in handy when they make Fast&Furious: IN SPACE!21:25
ryuopedja: Would that be the one that stars the star ship Enterprise?21:27
jaegerjumping the shark is much easier with low gravity21:28
pedjaryuo, crossover between Abrams Star Trek and F&F? damn, that would be fun to watch21:28
ryuoWell, if you ever watched Star Trek: Nemesis, for part of the movie they use a terrestrial vehicle to navigate a planet to recover something.21:29
ryuoSo, who knows. :)21:29
ryuoToday's Star Trek is kinda meh though.21:30
tilmanI like ST:Discovery.21:30
pedjajaeger, yet another quote of yours to add to my fortune collection :)21:30
pedjatilman, me too, second half of the season was pretty good21:31
pedjabut that Klingon/human abomination needs to die, soon21:33
DaViruzoh worf was adopted apparantly21:35
jaegerpedja: glad to supply :D21:35
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j_vryuo: did you clear up the ssl issues with seems like you did, because i just downloaded some thing from /distfiles and saw no cert issues from wget22:13
j_voh, i see you said you had it all cleared up22:14
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: yes.22:15
ryuoi also started requiring TLS. I may enable HSTS in the future if TLS doesn't cause other issues.22:16
ryuoj_v: yes22:17
ryuosometimes I wish irssi would prioritize people that "pinged" me recently.22:17
j_vi was curious, because i was having issues renewing, but got through it by stepping back to port 80 connections until i had finished renewing the cert22:21
ryuoj_v: i was initially using self-signed certs.22:21
ryuoi had no trouble passing LetsEncrypt with those.22:21
ryuoI was using dehydrated client though.22:22
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ryuoThe web server is Hiawatha... I find it easier to manage for my purposes.22:23
ryuoThe configuration is a lot easier to follow.22:23
j_vi was thinking of giving nginx a spin; i've used apache and lighttpd so far... (using lighttpd now)22:23
jaegerI went from apache to lighttpd to nginx over the years22:23
ryuoI reported some issues with Hiawatha and they got fixed, but won't be available until next release in about a month.22:24
jaegerOf course they all do the job... I just like nginx best for configuration currently22:24
ryuonginx? Isn't it rather involved?22:24
jaegerNot for my uses, particularly22:24
ryuoAh. I chose Hiawatha because it has a sane set of defaults and doesn't do a lot of extra crap by default unless you tell it to.22:25
j_vi've been using lighttpd for the last few years, no major hiccups, though setting letsencrypt was kind of convoluted, just  becuase certbot and acme don't support it out of the box22:25
jaegerI feel like that statement applies to nginx, too22:25
jaegerIt CAN do a ton of things... but the defaults are sane and useful22:25
ryuoThat's what I want from a web server. Makes them easier to secure.22:25
ryuoI'm not an IT wizard.22:25
ryuoI don't keep up with all the threats facing web server so I prefer something easy to keep secure.22:26
ryuoNot something convoluted. That's how I feel about apache.22:26
jaegerwell, if hiawatha satisfies your preferences/requirements, then you're set :)22:27
ryuoyea. I reported some issues that'll be patched.22:27
ryuoLike, its directory listing didn't show hidden files even if you enabled them.22:28
ryuoThat was an issue for Romster's crux ports.22:28
ryuoSince ports use hidden files.22:28
ryuoHiawatha is rather obscure but the author also maintains a PHP framework for writing "secure" web applicatons.22:29
ryuoIt's configured to take advantage of some Hiawatha's features by default but also works with other web servers.22:30
jaegerThe only time I can recall seeing hiawatha in use personally was that crux-based minecraft distribution that someone made a long time ago22:30
Workster<pedja> hm. looks like hexchat doesn't work with enchant-2.2.3 for some reason. <- i thought i fixed it but yeah seems to have an issue with enchant222:30
jaeger <-- this one, took me a bit to find it again because I couldn't remember the name22:31
pedjaWorkster, it's patched now in git master22:31
ryuoIt's outdated.22:31
ryuoCRUX hasn't used i686 for years.22:31
jaegerHe doesn't maintain the crux version anymore22:32
ryuoAnywho back to work.22:33
jaegerIt was an interesting project, though22:33
Worksteri intend to do something smiler on the server if it'll handle minecraft modded22:42
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