IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2018-03-11

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ryuoWhy are Java programmers so sluggish in the morning? They haven't had their morning Java yet.02:56
joacimi like this colour scheme03:10
joacimbut i wish it used a more "standard" looking profile03:10
joacimthe shape of the keys looks so out of place i think03:11
joacimnot that i can afford one with all the addons to make it suitable for norway anyways03:11
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elderKHey guys, is anyone having trouble running Deluge?03:42
elderKI just installed it from ports and I keep getting a Python import error:03:42
elderK"certificate_transparency" not found, etc.03:42
elderKI've checked that pyopenssl is installed, same with python cryptography.03:42
elderKEven checked the footprint of pycrypto and it has
elderK:| I'm unsure of how to fix the issue.03:43
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jaegernever used it, myself04:01
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elderKjaeger: nuts :P04:04
elderKI normally use Transmission. But, that client isn't allowed when using TorrentDay.04:04
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brian|lfsupgraded to CRUX 3.4 where do I get the new urls and signatgure fiels from?04:41
abenz_is it time!?!!04:42
abenz_ACTION checks crux.nu04:42
abenz_no its not04:42
brian|lfsno its not time just a dare devel04:42
ryuoabenz: hold your horses skippy. lol04:44
abenztbh its just for the new firefox theme :P04:44
ryuoabenz: Firefox theme?04:45
abenzI do house cleaning when upgrading crux, remove unused files, rearrqange stuff04:45
ryuoOld news? These have been available in Firefox 58 for awhile now I thought.04:47
abenzexactly.. not on the LTS release in crux 3.3 tho04:47
ryuoI liked Compact Dark but it's gone.04:48
abenzme too thats what I was using. Gone? in 58 too?04:48
ryuoSeveral versions ago.04:48
ryuoNow there's just a Dark and Light.04:49
ryuoIt's not the same as compact dark.04:49
abenzoh well, that be the case, take your sweet time with 3.4 then frinnst04:49
abenzno rush04:49
brian|lfsno glitches thus far04:50
brian|lfsjust repointed to the 3.4 repos04:50
ryuoI can hardly wait for crux 4.204:51
ryuothen we can say crux is the answer.04:51
brian|lfshuh lol04:51
brian|lfsyou told me you don't run CRUX04:51
ryuoI don't.04:52
ryuoDoes that not entitle me to make jokes?04:52
abenzryuo: whats your daily distro ?04:52
brian|lfsI guess more reason to lol04:52
ryuoUbuntu LTS or its derivatives.04:52
abenzoh.. I thought techy people didn't trust canonical04:53
brian|lfsI can't use UBUNTU after they went frome Gone2 to unity back to gnome lol04:53
ryuoI don't necessarily, but most of their evil is primarily in Desktop Ubuntu.04:53
ryuoIf Ubuntu was uber evil, Linux Mint would also be infected.04:54
ryuoPrimarily I use ubuntu derivatives for Desktop and Ubuntu Server elsewhere.04:54
ryuoAll my servers are manual installs so they don't have typical junk.04:55
ryuoEven so...04:55
ryuoabenz: when i get down to it, there's something to hate about every major distribution anymore.04:55
brian|lfsyou mean netr install isos by manual04:55
abenzI usually use debian when I don't want to bother with details here and there04:57
abenzworks and is pretty clean04:57
ryuoDebian works too but it's also in bed with systemd.04:57
ryuoACTION shrugs.04:57
brian|lfsthey got the new spinoff of debian with systemd04:57
abenzdaily driver is crux04:57
brian|lfswithout systemd I mean04:57
abenzryuo: so the ubuntu derivatives you use are without systemd?04:58
ryuoNo, they use systemd.04:58
ryuoNot much of a choice anymore.04:58
ryuoIt's either use an obscure distribution virtually no one uses and hence is less compatible sith software in general...04:58
ryuoOr... live with systemd.04:59
ryuoOr so I've come to see it.04:59
abenzobscure distro? like crux you mean?04:59
abenzgeniunely curious, what software doesn't work?04:59
ryuoYea... Alpine and Void also fit this.04:59
ryuoabenz: uh, i mean, not readily viable to install binary packages sometimes.04:59
ryuoi don't feel like hacking shit to make it work anymore.05:00
ryuoit's often easier just to use what's compatible with them in the first place.05:00
ryuoFor example... uh...05:00
brian|lfsCRUX has the apps I use besides the ones I built that it don't have05:00
ryuoGOG's Linux games. They're built for Ubuntu or its derivatives.05:00
brian|lfsyou ever use archlinux ryuo05:01
ryuoonce upon a time. nowadays i don't see the point, unless i'm wanting more recent software.05:01
ryuosince they adopted systemd, there's not much that's unique about them.05:02
brian|lfsya if your going to use archlinux you might as well use CRUX lol05:02
ryuoI only use ARCH through Manjaro sometimes, to test compatibility with newer software or so.05:03
brian|lfshow is Manjaro if I ever tried it I don't recall05:03
j_vFirefox's motto: exponentially bloat the software while removing features05:03
ryuoit's basically Arch for newbies.05:03
ryuoVery easy to install relative to ARCH.05:03
ryuoReminds me of LM honestly.05:03
brian|lfsthats what I read its moving up the  noob list of popularity05:04
brian|lfswhats LM?05:04
ryuoLinux Mint?05:04
brian|lfsLinux Mint?05:04
abenzLeading Management05:04
ryuoi've come to accept that systemd is here to stay. i don't like it, but it's kinda impractical to avoid it now.05:05
brian|lfsRomster,  must of saw about me install firefox-rust 58.0.2 he updated rust05:05
brian|lfssame here05:05
abenzyes, lack of choice is troubling indeed05:05
ryuoso i've been learning how to mitigate its crap.05:06
abenzthis "consolidation" thing, they sell it as good, but in the long run I dont think it is05:06
ryuolike, ubuntu is pushing hard and phasing out ifupdown in favor of networkd and resolved.05:06
brian|lfsI will give systemd iots fast but other then that don't like it05:06
ryuonetworkd is tolerable but resolved is just terrible.05:06
ryuoit sucks as a server's DNS resolver, but it's tolerable for desktop.05:07
ryuoi'm probably just going to disable it entirely and rely on dnsmasq for all local DNS queries when i upgrade my server.05:08
ryuoi have to use it anyway for containers.05:08
brian|lfsis this your home network your talking about or work related05:08
ryuonot work.05:08
ryuopersonal; the server at home and the server i share with Romster.05:08
brian|lfsyou bash CRUX but share a server with Romster don't get it05:09
ryuoi'm not really bashing crux i thought?05:09
ryuoi use it in containers. CRUX...05:10
brian|lfswell your in a CRUX room on IRC you said yuou don't use it tgoo much work and mentioned Ubuntu and derivatives and Debian05:10
abenzbrian|lfs: calm your horses05:10
ryuoACTION shrugs.05:10
jaegerthat doesn't count as bashing, heh05:10
brian|lfsI am calm I'm giving him aj ahrd time lol05:10
brian|lfshey I'm on CRUX 3.405:10
ryuoat least he's not getting hard at the same time.05:11
brian|lfsjaeger, so far so good05:11
ryuowell, I/we chose ubuntu because05:11
ryuo1) i'm familiar with it already, 2) we wanted an LTS for server host.05:11
ryuoCRUX isn't really built for LTS usage, no offense.05:12
brian|lfsya for a server I don't run CRUX05:12
brian|lfsI have Debian for my webserver05:12
abenzwhy dont you run crux for server brian|lfs05:12
brian|lfsserver 2016 for windows05:12
abenzyou in crux IRC channel05:12
abenzyou have to run crux on all your boxes05:12
ryuobrian|lfs is a Windows sympathizer!05:12
ryuoACTION organizes a lynching mob.05:13
brian|lfsI wish I had some weed all rolling over here laughing05:13
ryuoHonestly if Debian had LXD support w/o resorting to hacks like snapd05:14
brian|lfsI do have mikes hard lemonade05:14
ryuoi'd probably switch to Debian.05:14
ryuoit suckes less than Ubuntu.05:14
brian|lfsfor servers they both are stable for me05:14
ryuoI don't know why but Ubuntu is promoting netplan, some crappy abstraction of theirs that's built on top of networkd.05:15
ryuoYet is entirely incapable of coping with OVH's weird networking configuration.05:15
ryuoFor now anyway.05:15
brian|lfsDoes Canomical even make any money05:15
ryuoOVH requires a configuration that can handle the default gateway not being on the same subnet as your host.05:15
ryuoNo idea.05:16
brian|lfsor does he just throw money down the toilet05:16
brian|lfsAlways wondered that05:16
ryuoUbuntu's biggest issue has always been NIH i think.05:16
brian|lfsI remember I use to request CDs in the mail from them just because I could05:16
ryuoUnity, Mir, ...05:16
abenzWeb Container: 2GB05:17
brian|lfsas much as you hate them I think Linux would of died off05:17
abenzhow is RAM usage with latest FF ?05:17
brian|lfsRedhat went corporate and Ubuntu came a long without Ubuntu Linux would be close to dead by now05:17
brian|lfsand there would probably be no Android05:17
ryuoabenz: here? 7.3% of 8G05:18
abenzhow many tabs?05:18
brian|lfswhy can't I find anything05:18
ryuobrian|lfs: poor organization.05:19
brian|lfsso MS ins finally going to tab explorer and other apps05:19
ryuobrian|lfs: maybe, maybe not.05:19
ryuobrian|lfs: there's no way to say either way.05:19
brian|lfsits in the latest insider build of windows 1005:19
abenzinsider build ?!!!05:19
ryuoyou've never heard of it?05:19
brian|lfsyup if your running windows 10 you can enroll in insider editions05:20
ryuoincidently i have a copy of Windows 10 Education...05:20
abenzbrian|lfs: I can't believe you were BS ryuo on ubuntu and now talk about MS insider editions05:20
ryuoLucky me. I can supposedly disable telemetry here because of the edition.05:20
abenzryuo: "supposedly", being the keyword there05:21
ryuohence why i don't use it much outside of a VM where any data they can mine is minimal.05:21
brian|lfswere just all assholes tonight so dont' troll me out05:21
brian|lfsI haven't even stgarted drinking my 3 mike's hards yet05:22
abenzryuo: VMs aren't as isolated as you think05:22
ryuoit's not exposed to my general network. what are you getting at?05:22
ryuoit only has internet access.05:22
ryuono LAN access.05:22
brian|lfsrust   Finished release [optimized] target(s) in 23.50 secs05:23
brian|lfsdon't see any rust my computer is in good shape05:24
ryuoabenz: i never said it was perfect. but it does help.05:25
brian|lfstrying to get my bed level with large nozzles always a challange06:02
brian|lfsscratching head06:20
brian|lfsweird error06:20
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Romsterbrian|lfs, is using the opt-3.4/rust that isn't mine. that's the work of frinnst10:02
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Romsterhaving said that i just updated my rust for crux 3.310:09
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Romster115:59.53     Finished release [optimized] target(s) in 6790.51 secs12:11
Romster116:13.96 libxul.so12:11
Romster136:25.51 Still linking, 20 minutes passed...12:11
Romstermy poor pc12:11
pedjaI can see your packages becoming even more popular, Romster, after 3.4 lands, rust/FF are a PITA to build, apparently :)12:14
Romsterwell i got rust up already but i haven't even started to build 3.4 yet12:15
Romsterbut rust and firefox be on the iso so the initial shock of updating wont be seen until the next rust/firefox version12:15
Romsterbeen thinking that pkg-get or something needs to be made so it can depinst from my packages12:16
Romsterif everyone thought qt5,webkit was slow to build, they haven't met rust12:17
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pedjabecause of it, ISO bootstrap takes ~20 hours, iirc :) (on 4C machine)12:26
pedjait is fscking insane12:27
pedjaI wonder how big is the Mozilla build farm12:28
pedjaor SUSE's OBS12:28
Romsterwell i haev one thing i'll have in my romster/rust port soon, it will be able to rebuild from system installed rust than to have to rebuild itself before it can bootstrap12:28
Romsterso that might save some time.12:28
pedjakind of like go port?12:29
Romsterand the only thing i don't have in source in mine is all the crates, i haven't figured if i can cache that to a local files12:29
Romsterlike i've done with ghc it can build from installed ghc or download a prebuilt ghc to bootstrap from.12:31
Romsterdunno it it will save time i haven't tested that part yet12:32
pedjaoS rust package has rust source and prebuilt cargo binaries, for bootstrap I would guess12:35
Romsterthe script does download them every time you build it but mine keeps the copy in PKGMK_SOURCE12:36
Romsterthe next step would be for me to not download them 3 extra files if system has cargo and rust already installed.12:38
Romsterwhich is just some kungfu on the 3 files to not download if package rust in installed. and then alter config.toml12:39
Romsterbut currently waiting for forefox12:39
Romstersrc/stage0.txt has the current date rustc and cargo versions it downloads. i haven't bothered to look for all the crates list.12:40
Romstercrates= packages like pip and gem12:40
Romstermy rust is still a bit hacky i see frinnst streamlined his from mine when they merged cargo with rust source12:42
pedjamerged? was it merged, then separate, but required to update in sync with rustc few months back?12:43
Romsterit was in it's own package12:45
Romsterit's own build system then it was made to be a cyclic dependency to build rust, needed cargo, cargo need rust.12:45
Romsterit was a mess12:45
Romsterso the build system included cargo12:46
Romsteri am sort of half thinking if pip and pip3 should be part of the python and python3 packages but i dunno.12:46
Romsterthere is i think 5 dependencies need to build setuptools12:47
Romsterbeing a packager is not always fun and games12:47
Romsternow does sound work in 58.0.2 last time i tried i couldn't get sound.12:49
pedjawith alsa? I think it should work12:50
Romsteryeah with alsa12:51
pedjaidk, tbh, I use pulseaudio :)12:51
Romsterewwwww i want ot avoid pulseaudio12:51
Romsteralso mind you i added stylo as enabled in my firefox-rust build12:52
pedjawell, alsa kind of works in 59, but it's broken in 60, iirc12:52
pedjaupstream DGAF about it, apparently12:53
Romster so i should have sound in alsa12:55
pedjapip/pip3 are more often updated than python proper, so it makes sense for them to be a separate ports, imho12:55
Romsteryeah but have you seen the code i stuck in the pyhton-* ports for pip setuptools and friends to make sure no one is missing anything important. or maybe i shouldn't bother with the hand holding on that bit.12:56
pedjayeah, it's a bit...messy :)12:57
Romstera bit....12:57
pedjathat's because egg info thingie is removed, right?12:57
pedjaso the build can't pick it up?12:58
Romsterwell we used to remove egginfo but we since changed to not removing that in ports. but the issue is it uses a single file when pip is not found and then  a directory when pip is installed.12:59
Romsterthat uglyness is more to the point to make sure /user/ has all needed python packages for setuptools/pip to work13:00
Romsterhrmm man i just want also to work in firefox 58.0.2 it builds do i have to strace this monster?13:00
Romsteri did read some versions failed to /compile/13:01
Romsterbut this one has compiled fine13:01
pedjapython setuptools is yet another upstream mess13:04
Romstertell me about it13:04
Romster+if CONFIG['MOZ_ALSA']:13:04
Romster+    DEFINES['MOZ_ALSA'] = True13:04
pedja'about:support' should tell you which audio backend it uses13:05
pedjaif any :)13:05
RomsterAudio Backendalsa13:07
pedjalists the audio devices?13:08
Romsterjust says default13:09
Romster1000 channels O_O13:10
pedja'max channels'?13:11
Romsterchecking it against 57.0.4 that has sound and is built the same way as 58.0.213:12
Romsteryeah same stats. i'll apply that small patch and rebuild firefox.13:12
Romster10 hours later :P13:16
Romsterbut yeah python is a mess13:18
Romsteri'll likely move to jack before pulseaudio13:18
Romsterbeginning to think even the mozilla foundation is a mess.13:23
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Romsterthat fixed the alsa sound14:33
pedjaenjoy it while it lasts ;)14:38
Romsteruntil it's removed.14:39
pedjait won't be removed. it won't be maintained, either14:39
pedja'if it works, great. if it doesn't, tough shit' is the upstream attitude, afaict :)14:42
pedjabased on that bug I linked above, ff-60 will have PA as a hard build dependency, so it has to be installed even if you don't intend to use it14:45
john_cephalopodaI wonder if gentoo will patch for it.14:45
pedjaand it's funny how Arch lists PA as an optional dep, with 'sound support' :)14:46
pedjafor their ff-60 port14:46
john_cephalopodaLast time I looked, gentoo patched i3status in order to get the pulseaudio stuff out of it.14:46
pedjato make it optional14:50
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: meson: 0.44.0 -> 0.45.014:50
Romstercruxbot, you miss so many commits now...14:59
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python-cffi: 1.11.4 -> 1.11.515:01
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: youtube-dl: 2018.02.26 -> 2018.03.1015:01
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john_cephalopodaDamn, Anubis... Now I get it. The Egyptans were furries!15:25
ryuoRomster: up late i see.15:29
Romsteryeah been so the last 2 nights15:29
ryuoi don't get why but it seems like all the trouble makers come from webchat...15:32
Romsteri dunno about that.15:36
Romsternot like we can't see there ip address from webchat. and the ones that thought they were hidden actually have the ident in hex for the ip.15:37
ryuoRomster: well, it sure seems like it from working as an op for #learnprogramming.15:37
ryuomajority of the headcases come from there, when they did make an appearance.15:38
Romsteri'm sure the ubuntu channel would cop a heap and ##linux15:38
ryuoseems like every time i find a trouble person, they're from webchat usually.15:38
Romsterheh they don't know an irc client if a book hit them i the face.15:38
Romsterban the webchats and be done with them?15:39
ryuonot practical for #learnprogramming.15:39
ryuoNot all of them are are trouble.15:39
ryuoIt's like this...15:39
Romsterthat's the issue.15:39
ryuoMost trouble people are webchat visitors.15:40
ryuoNot all web chat visitors are trouble people.15:40
john_cephalopodaWebchat is used by beginners. Once people start to use IRC more often, they use an actual client.15:41
ryuoat which point, most trolls have been weeded...15:41
john_cephalopodaAlso you can easily use it via a web proxy.15:41
ryuofunny isn't it.15:41
joacimthere are people that hate irc. says it is ancient tech and nobody uses it15:42
joacimthey're not too happy when i point out they spend hours every day on twitch, and twitch chat is pretty much irc (can connect with an irc client)15:42
ryuothen leave us alone and go play with your uber modern turds.15:42
ryuoDid you hear? Slack is dropping IRC support.15:43
ryuoNot that i'm surprised.15:43
ryuoThey want to lock it all down.15:43
Romsteri did read about that15:43
ryuoI don't see the appeal though... you can run your own IRC servers and crap. Setup all the fancy logging you might want if you care.15:44
Romsteri am on twitch with an irc client :D15:44
ryuoACTION twitches.15:44
john_cephalopodaSlack dropped not only IRC support but also XMPP support.15:52
john_cephalopodaSome years back, a popular PC magazine for advanced users brought an article about how to set up IRC for a company network.15:53
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mayfrostcan I apply patches to the kernel using sorcery?20:17
mayfrostwrong channel, sorry20:35
john_cephalopodaHeh, I tried out that distro before, too. Only in a VM for a short time though.,21:46
john_cephalopodaWas a bit confusing with its magic terminology, so I gave it up :D21:46
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: [notify] unzip: patched for CVE-2016-9844, CVE-2018-1000035. Closes FS#163122:25
frinnstinfozip is in such a hopeless state :(22:28
frinnstappers this is where development is done:
frinnstApache/2.0.65 (OpenVMS) mod_ssl/2.0.65 OpenSSL/0.9.8zb Server at Port 80 \o/22:28
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