IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2018-03-15

frinnstWorkster: love your hostname!00:16
Worksterwhich one my work one or home one?00:26 !00:26
frinnst<- zoidberg.planet-express.se00:26
Worksterah yeah00:26
Worksterhah so you to00:27
frinnstall my hostnames are futurama characters00:31
marakudoes curl-32 fail for anyone with webkitgtk installed?00:52
marakuspecifically, i think curl-32 needs brotli-32 once curl is updated after webkitgtk is installed00:52
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Workstercurl links with brotli (contrib)02:24
Workstermaraku, edit core/curl and add --without-brotli to ./configure ; pkgmk -is -u02:33
j_vWorkster: have you had any issues building webkitgtk?02:34
Worksteror even grab these and pkgadd -u them.
Worksternone j_v02:35
Worksterprovided you install the missing dependencies new to webkitgtk02:36
Worksteri seriously hate that %23 encoding for #02:37
j_vit is a pain02:38
j_vcould you look at this partial log?
j_vI'm beginning to suspect that something on my system is broken02:40
Worksterrevdep rejmerge ?02:41
Worksteri don't see any rice cflags02:41
j_vI did a revdep... I'll double check the rejmerge now02:41
j_vno, no rice here02:41
Worksterhow many build jobs, i've built mine with -j2402:42
Workstermight be a race condition i didn't see02:42
j_v-j 1... maybe I should try to up it... never had to do that before, would be wierd02:43
Worksteryou could install my package then check with revdep and then try rebuilding it if it works02:43
Worksterj1 would be very painful to use, you haven't set JOBS= in pkgmk.conf?02:43
Worksteror you did that just to see this error?02:44
j_vbeen fussing over it on and off better part of the day02:44
Worksteri am guessing you didn't run out of space, unless you compile in ramfs?02:45
j_vno, lots of space... though my free mem isn't so great... but mainly it's just cached, so that shouldn't actually hurt02:46
Worksterccache distcc use?02:47
j_vI think I'm going to do a temporary fresh install, I was waiting for 3.4 to do one, but think something seems wrong...02:49
j_vWell, I'll be buggered... changing JOBS to 2, and it's building fine02:51
j_vfreaking weird02:52
j_vI must have been the only duffus to try building it with -j102:52
j_vThanks for the package and the help02:56
j_vNow I think that there IS something broken with the webkitgtk sources, what ever internal build dependency the causes the DerivedSources/ForwardingHeaders/JavaScriptCore to get filled isn't required and run before it's actually needed03:02
j_vthe parallel build must hide the issue03:03
Worksterthats a new one03:13
Workstercan you git besect the source?03:14
Worksterand report upstream03:14
j_vI probably should. I've got some much time on it now, I might as well go the distance with it.03:14
j_vLuckily, I already cloned the repo, so that part is covered... webkit git is HUGE.03:16
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Workstervery large03:31
j_vI orginally cloned it a while back when I was a bit curious about the parity between webkitgtk and upstream. I don't remember how long it actually took to receive the whole thing, but I remember it took a lot longer that I had expected.03:34
j_vAnd since I have ample disc space, decided it couldn't hurt to keep it around. Glad I did.03:35
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j_vWorkster: Thanks for the bisect suggestion. I've got the git commit/svn revision for when the build breaks when using -j1.04:47
brian|lfshey j_v04:51
j_vwhat's up brian|lfs?04:51
brian|lfsI'm stoubron I've been running CRUX 3.4 for a few days04:52
brian|lfssome packages took tweeking but all and all all my stuff is running04:52
j_vnice... i've got it in a vm and few containers, so far... putting off an actual hard disk install just yet.04:53
brian|lfsI upgraded from 3.304:53
brian|lfsI see contrib has been moved yet04:54
j_vyou sure? I've been seeing the merger commits daily for a week or so, it seems.04:54
brian|lfsjmaybe it wasn't contrib but one of the repos didnt' downlaod any packages04:55
brian|lfshmm they all have packages guess there hasn't been any updates sicne I updated on contrib or something04:56
brian|lfsI imagine I'm the only one on CRUX this uses 3D printers05:08
ryuoI wonder. Can you use a 3D printer to print a 3D printer?05:14
brian|lfsalways wondered that myself05:14
brian|lfsnot sure how you would print the stepper motors or the circut board05:14
jaegerI've definitely read about people printing some parts with another 3d printer05:15
brian|lfsparts yes05:17
brian|lfsbut not a whole 3D printer lol05:17
jaegerof course not05:17
brian|lfsunless you have an industrial one lol05:18
brian|lfsvideo on youtube guy printed a castle in his  garden05:18
brian|lfsout of cemenant05:19
brian|lfsThat would be an expensive project05:19
brian|lfsI wish more people woudl get into 3D pritner price has really come down05:23
j_vWorkster: I've got a patch to allow '-j 1' builds with webkitgtk-2.20.0. Would you like me to paste it, email it, or submit bug on flyspray and attach it there?05:25
j_vwell, here it is, anyways:
j_vI can do the flyspray and work up a git-am type patch for the port if you'd like... up to you.05:32
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Romsterj_v, i would open a bug but with upstream webkitgtk but if this is really a issue i can apply the patch for the time being.07:31
Romsteri see that here
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j_vit's already fixed in upstream scm, and probably since I'm the only one silly enough prefer to build single threaded most of the time I doubt it's much to worry about08:05
Romsterif you have a spare 10 hours to build in a single core08:07
j_vyeah, is why usually I set the really long stuff (webkit, chromium, firefox, llvm, clang, etc) to build while I'm sleeping or at work08:10
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j_vbut, tbh, over the years I've seen enough breakage from mutlithreaded builds, that I have adjusted my work flow to accomodate it08:18
Romsterall the programmers need to get used to threadsafe-ing evertything08:19
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j_vI'm it wouldn't surprise me if it's less of an issue than it once was08:20
Romsterthe worst one was the kernel08:21
Romsterpushing spinlocks into the subsystems08:21
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j_vI find it ironic that all the multithreaded stuff and  the speculative execution stuff came back to haunt us with meltdown and spectre... the mitigation is going to be spread out for a while I think08:26
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j_vI think the worst of it over, but I know the kernel devs are still working on it pretty steadily08:28
j_vnot sure that's actually a word, 'steadily'08:29
Romsteri feel intel took shortcuts to make there cpus faster to compete with AMD, to make AMD look like slow sluggish crap.08:29
j_vyeah, seems like your right... just hope AMD didn't jump too fast with the ryzen stuff... I'm still going to wait a bit before I build a ryzen based machine08:30
Romsterwhile AMD is immune to meltdown but still susceptible to spectre08:31
Romsteri want a ryzen machine08:31
Romsterbut the cost and the other stability issues08:32
j_vthat's just it... I've had to keep a clamp on my desires to put one together... in time08:32
Romsterthe fight is real on wanting to buy one08:33
j_vI'm thinking of doing a cheaper build with a vishera 6 core, the prices are pretty good and they are really stable08:35
j_vbut not yet... I'm out of work right now, so money is too tight for that08:37
Romsteroh so you got a ton of time on your hands?08:38
j_vfor a little while longer... a few jobs might be coming up... hopefully, I need to get cash flow in going again.08:39
joacimi remember in old tests. amd systems always lagged behind by a few % on ssd throughput and io tests. would like to see those same tests redone with post-meltdown and spectre patches08:40
j_vgood point. i know some of the work i see in recent kernel patches seems to be about speeding things back up08:41
Romsterthe issue there is the intel cpu is flawed and needs a total redesign08:44
Romsterthe kernel/microcode is just patch work to work around that08:44
Romsterwith varying performance penalties08:44
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j_vYeah, though I suspect many of us will be stuck working on/with those flawed cpus for quite some time.08:53
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frinnstRomster: there are no stability issues09:04
frinnstatleast nothing except regular shitty motherboards etc09:05
frinnstthe issue me, jaeger and joacim had with ryzen7 was fixed in early batches09:16
frinnstthen joacim bricked his MB :)09:16
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Romsterah that was a early seteeping cpu that would freeze after doing massive parallel build jobs, i was reading about that frinnst09:57
RomsterGG stepping*10:37
Romsterso how did joacim un brick it? dual bios? or solder a new bios chip to it10:37
Romsterryuo,  rams works on the rising and falling edge of the square wave so that makes it double data rate ram10:41
frinnstnot sure, maybe he will fill us in on the current status. I think he got an RMA for it11:02
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joacimfrinnst: dustin still hasnt returned the money i spent on the cpu and motherboard...11:27
joacimthey told me they have sent it. still nothing11:28
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frinnsthow long have you been waiting?11:44
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joacimalmost four weeks11:48
joacimi just checked tho. the money for the motherboard arrived11:48
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joacimstill waiting for the cpu money. guess i can spend it on a graphics card once prices go down11:51
ryuothe lazy man's dream job.11:51
joacimi remember there was this company here looking for someone to sit on a chair in a park over summer11:51
joacimto monitor a robotic lawn mower11:52
ryuojoacim: did they hire someone to watch their watchers too?11:54
joacimi expect that's another robot11:55
ryuothis is the same basic problem as writing tests for tests.11:55
ryuoan infinite, unsolvable problem.11:56
joacimyou can just have two people watch eachother11:57
ryuojoacim: they're still people, so they decide to band together to game the system. what then?12:02
joacimpeople never do evil =)12:03
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: [notify] python3-requests: 2.13.0 -> 2.18.4 new dependencies: python3-chardet, python3-idna, and python3-urllib312:17
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python3-urllib3: initial import12:17
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python3-idna: initial import12:17
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python3-chardet: initial import12:17
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bubo_hi, everyone! can crux be installed with full disk encryption (without rolling your own bootdisk at the installation)?12:32
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python3-requests: fix certificate path12:34
ryuobubo_: define "bootdisk"12:35
Anselmoyou can boot from an initramfs you make, and there exist tools to do that12:35
Romsteryou do need initramfs if you also plan to encrypt root12:35
Anselmoyou can also steal one from another distro along with the kernel and modules12:35
ryuoyou also need a separate /boot partition if you aren't using GRUB2. it's the only bootloader advanced enough to read directly from encrypted volumes.12:36
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Anselmoits a ping timeout. . . so hopefully they return and just have a bad connexion. . . .12:37
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Anselmoho bleh x.x12:39
Romsteryeah i figured it's a bad network connection12:39
Anselmowell, maybe they got their answer and were satisfied12:40
Romsteri dunno12:41
Romsteranyways, hi Anselmo i don't think i've seen your nick in here. or i've been to busy to notice12:42
ryuoRomster: been here awhile. i have logs of their presence all the way back to December 2016.12:46
Anselmooh, haha, I've been on crux recently for. . . . a few weeks at least, though I'd been here some time earlier12:46
Anselmogosh x-x12:47
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python-hyperlink: 17.3.1 -> 18.0.012:48
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: python3-pycryptodome: 3.4.11 -> 3.5.112:51
Romsteri've been extreamly extreamly busy that i probably missed all the chats with your nickname in it12:52
Romsterno need i also have logs12:52
Romsteri don't remember seeing is all12:52
Romsterwe need more people12:52
ryuogreat point.12:53
ryuonew Person(Romster)12:53
Romsternow did i unfuck everything or did i break more stuff... i'll soon find out.12:53
ryuoACTION clones Romster.12:53
ryuoI'm making people!12:53
Romsterwe already have Workster  and phonester12:53
ryuohe can be clonester.12:54
ryuobad joke time.12:55
Romsterryuo, your jokes are terrible12:55
ryuoWhat do you call a teenage mobster?12:55
ryuoan angster12:55
Romsteri miss nogagplz's jokes12:55
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: cifs-utils: update to 6.814:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.3]: libinput: update to 1.10.314:18
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libtirpc: update to 1.0.314:21
frinnstRomster: heh yeah where is he?14:34
frinnstlife (tm)?14:34
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joacimtempted to get a couple of those15:38
joacimtwo of those are cheaper than a trip to a pizza restaurant15:39
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pedja'recommended price 999$' that's some pricey pizza :)15:52
joacimabout 20-25 dollars on ebay15:53
BurnZeZb43 is the driver that handles that chipset16:30
BurnZeZThis particular chipset is not supported, however16:30
BurnZeZProprietary driver supports it, so this Pkgfile might work16:36
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joacimpossible to replace the wifi card on it?16:40
joacimloads of old atheros b/g/n cards up on ebay for cheap.16:40
joacimi think those are the kind of cards that just works16:41
joacimintel wifi too tend to work, but requires firmware16:41
BurnZeZWifi is only temporary16:41
BurnZeZSwitching to wired as soon as I crimp some cords16:42
BurnZeZThe problem is that I need network access while I’m setting up this machine, which I need to do first16:43
joacimgot an extra wireless router? can often use those as a bridge16:48
joacimor a laptop with network sharing16:48
BurnZeZOtherwise I’d probably do that16:49
j_vI had to do something like that, so I could google the TIA/EIA 568 wiring pattern before I could crimp my ends =)16:49
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j_vlong time ago17:00
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: dmenu: updated to 4.817:10
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.3]: xorg-xf86-video-ati: updated to 18.0.117:12
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.3]: xorg-xf86-video-amdgpu: updated to 18.0.117:12
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onoderacan't firefox just be compiled with alsa?20:31
onoderaor is this why that line is crossed out?20:32
frinnstyes but it's semi-broken20:37
frinnstso quite possibly you wont have any audio20:37
onoderaeh I've been using firefox 57/58/59 all with alsa and it works just fune20:40
onoderahowever 57 needed a patch which arch provided20:40
frinnstcool. but cant guarantee it will continiue to work during the crux 3.4 lifetime20:43
frinnstanyways, opt/firefox will be alsa, opt/firefox-pa will be pulse20:43
brian|lfsI'm using firefox-ruse 58.0.2 with alsa disabled and pulse enabled no issues20:55
brian|lfsI'm using firefox-rust 58.0.2 with alsa disabled and pulse enabled no issues20:55
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: btrfs-progs: disable btrfs-convert. Drop e2fsprogs dep20:56
brian|lfsstill don't know why cnn and few other sites freeze chromium20:56
brian|lfscan't figure out the issue so I gave umt2 b 3d printer review20:56
brian|lfsstill don't know why cnn and few other sites freeze chromium20:56
brian|lfsso gave up just use firefox-rust20:57
frinnstfirefox in 3.3 will continiue to use esr without rust. firefox in 3.4 will use rust and there will be two ports available. one with alsa (default) and one with pulseaudio20:58
frinnstyour mileage with alsa will probably vary since mozilla arent interested in supporting it20:58
brian|lfsthats good to know frinnst20:59
frinnstpulseaudio actually works fine there days20:59
brian|lfsI agree with you but lot of people flame war it here20:59
frinnstand it will produce working audio in stuff like qemu vms21:00
brian|lfsI had to patch pulseaudio to work on crux 3.4 due to glibc21:00
frinnstI used pulseaudio back in 2011-2012 at work. rhel 6 desktop. it REALLY deserved all the crap it got back then21:01
frinnstit was pretty terrible21:01
brian|lfsok that was awhile ago lol21:01
frinnsttime flies :)21:02
brian|lfsif anyone is running crux 3.4 and needs pulseaudio its on my repo21:02
frinnstthis is my port for it:
brian|lfsprobably same patch as me different name lol21:03
brian|lfsI got mine from linux from scratch blfs book21:03
brian|lfsall the python I'm had to update and play with the past week I'm feeling we need make python 3.3 default21:04
brian|lfsand deprecatge 2.7 but leave it on the repos21:04
brian|lfsnot sure what I would use that needs 2.7 anymore21:05
brian|lfsand newer apps look for 3.321:05
joacim2011 is like yesterday21:07
joacimi still use a computer from then21:07
joacimbest year since you get really nice six core cpus from 2011 for 20-30 dollars =)21:08
frinnst2004 was also yesterday21:08
joacimi can live without 2004. that was the year i was supposed to become a grownup21:08
joacimscrew that who needs responsibility anyways21:08 is running on cpus from 200621:09
frinnstand the price was great - free21:09
joacimi guess crux itself can run on opterons from that era too =)21:09
frinnstmy work donated them, along with 16gb ddr2 ecc :)21:09
Anselmosometimes I feel very young . . . .21:09
Anselmoat least, relatively21:09
frinnst vroom vroom21:09
joacimthere is this guy here that insist that DDR2 is ancient and nobody should use it21:10
joacimi argue the opposite that there are many good functional computers that require it21:10
joacimhe also thinks DDR3 is outdated crap21:10
frinnstthe rest of the server is from that era too. but it was still unboxed when I bought it :)21:10
frinnstpeople are stupid21:10
joacimi dont find people that like older stuff21:11
joacimnot in person anyways. i still see a lot of people doing productive things with Core 2 Duo processors and still rocking their early 2000s CRT monitor21:12
frinnstthe previous server had a agp gpu and a pci sata-card21:13
frinnstand ribbon cables for floppy & cd \o/21:13
joacimhaving a floppy drive is nice. you never know when you need to boot from your rescue floppy21:14
onoderaI have been maintaining an alsa/rust firefox if you're interested21:14
onoderathe thing with PA is that alsa simple just works for me, I don't need/want pa21:14
joacimI thought it said CFIUX at first. before i zoomed in21:15
frinnstonodera: already run it and have it committed to opt/3.421:15
frinnstthanks though21:15
joacimis that a consumer grade motherboard?21:16
joacimi sometimes find people with homeservers blinged out like gaming PCs21:17
joacimbut it is nice to have your server inherit hardware from other things21:17
frinnstmore or less, yeah. It was Per's personal hardware21:17
joacimif i did that kind of stuff, i'd probably throw similar stuff in there. like my old C2D21:18
joacimit works, so why not21:18
Anselmoand lots of old computers continue to work. . . .21:21
onoderafrinnst: ah cool21:21
pedja"there is this guy here that insist that DDR2 is ancient and nobody should use it" <-- no shit ddr2 is old. but it works :)21:42
pedjaall glorious 6Gb of it21:42
joacimI have 8GB sitting on my desk =)21:43
joacimbeen meaning to try it out21:43
pedjaI had 4 until recently-ish. then got a donation :)21:45
jaegerI don't think it was Per's, I think Charly donated it... though I can't remember for sure, it's been 13 years21:45
jaegerbrain and fingers are disconnecting today21:46
brian|lfsI like my moden hardware but wouldn't bash old hardware lol21:54
brian|lfsDDR2 and 3 still have their place21:54
jaegerThere's no denying ddr2 is old... just that old doesn't necessarily mean useless22:03
joacimunlike people22:03
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pedjaagreed(source: old and useless myself)22:22
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pedjaI just love when software has some weird 'advanced' option, on by default and hidden in a menu somewhere, so it keeps complaining that 3d model isn't valid because of it22:25
pedjaonce I disabled it, it slices the model just fine, in a couple of seconds22:28
jaegerAny 6c37 folks here currently?22:35
ryuo ?22:42
ryuoSeems related either way.22:42
jaegerkori: are the 6c37 crux ports repos still actively maintained?22:59
korijaeger: I believe so23:03
koriOnodera is the main maintainer now23:03
koricrux-ports was last updated three hours ago23:03
korijaeger: why?23:04
jaegerok, will check with him23:11
jaegerthe httpup REPO files are out of sync23:12
jaegerFor all 3 repos23:12
koriCreate an issue23:13
jaegerfair enough, not a bad idea23:14
jaegerCreated an issue, sorry to bug you23:19
jaegeraway for a bit23:20
joacimturns out samsung messed up nand production a bit23:29
joacimexpensive ram, expensive graphics cards, and now expensive ssds23:29
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