IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2018-03-20

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joacimhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/i7-4790K-Devils-Canyon-4-00GHz-LGA1150/28288976167701:20
joacimLooks a bit strange01:21
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jaegerjoacim: hrmm, yeah. little bit suspicious01:43
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jaegerbrian|lfs: send me your 1080Tis and I'll send you my single 1080. SLI problem solved!02:21
brian|lfswow02:21
brian|lfsare yours gigabyte02:22
jaegerNo, mine's an MSI02:22
brian|lfsoh ok that would be an issue my water blocks won't fit02:22
jaegersend me the water blocks, too02:22
jaegerMine's got a water block on it already so you'd be fine :)02:23
joacimif you rather have an r9 290, i have one of those, with a waterblock02:25
jaegerI don't think I have enough radiator volume for an r9 29002:25
brian|lfslol02:31
joacimjust hook it up to the radiator on your car02:31
jaegergenius!02:31
brian|lfslol02:33
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brian|lfschange of subject from video cards I"m very impressed with CRUX 3.4 even though its far from release02:42
brian|lfsby the way jaeger I ended up having a bad SD cared and my external reader seems a bit flakey02:43
jaegerCan't say I'm too surprised by that, I've had quite a few crap-tier sd cards over the years02:44
jaegerI end up just trashing them and replacing02:44
brian|lfsand Linux buggy with reading external card readers02:44
brian|lfsI'm in Winblows 10 pro right now and and card reader working with a different card02:44
brian|lfsI really should upgrade to windows 10 enterprise lol02:45
joacimgot an educaation license for 10 installs here. still havent used it03:10
brian|lfscool03:27
brian|lfslicense I just bought looks like a reformat03:28
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Worksterbrian|lfs, that would of been the bump to either or both libvpx and libwebp05:31
brian|lfsI  rebuilt broken packages and was fine05:35
Worksterof course it's just an ABI change05:35
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brian|lfshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqWHKjCiGRo06:14
brian|lfsomg I would die without CRUX06:14
abenz_literally or figuratively?07:02
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brian|lfsjaeger, are the Muslins really taking over the US or are people losing it?07:30
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marakujust people being idiots as usual brian|lfs07:39
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frinnstour backup vendor recommends ReFS09:28
frinnst*horror*09:28
ryuofrinnst: if it fails, it tries tries again.10:06
SiFuh_Re is short for Reboot10:43
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frinnstseems to want a lot of ram too. 4gb per TB11:06
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joacimSiFuh: I thought it was short for REEEEE12:30
joacimfrinnst: one of my teachers was really into storage spaces, but it always errored out when i tried to set that up with 2016 and 1012:31
frinnstnot using storagespaces here, just ReFS13:27
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SiFuhhmm13:38
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jaegerI love getting emails from newegg or similar touting how an RX 580 for 2x MSRP is AN EPIC SALE14:58
pedjawhat's the MSRP for it?15:03
pedjait's around 600 € here atm :)15:04
pedjalinux way of setting rgb on logitech mice/keyboard? 200 line python script. Windows software is ~180Mb15:09
pedjagranted, there is other stuff in Windows app too15:09
joacimgraphics card sales are always a little bs here. usually some card that has a very high price compared to the alternatives15:28
joacimso it isnt actually cheaper than the popular cards from evga or sapphire15:28
jaegerI think the 8GB was $200 US MSRP15:52
jaegerthe email I got about them today was $39915:52
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jaegerI get that it's entirely because of the cryptocurrency ecosystem currently but it still made me laugh15:53
pedja'you only have to sell one kidney? what a deal!'16:00
pedjacryptomining, ram shortages and plain ol' capitalism = insane gpu prices16:03
pedjamarketing folks at AMD GPU division and Nvidia can take a long vacation16:05
jaegerheh, no doubt16:05
pedjainteresting. 4.17 kernel will ship with AMD DC turned on by default for all cards, not just Vega ones16:08
joacimI hope prices become a lot more reasonable soon16:16
joacimI'd like an upgrade from my fury16:16
joacimseeing how prices are today, i kinda regret not getting a GTX 1070 for 350 dollars a year ago =)16:16
jaegerI don't think there's any reason to think prices will get more reasonable soon, sadly16:35
joacimif cryptomining becomes unpopular, the flood of used cards could hurt new prices too16:36
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pedjathat's a big 'if'16:38
pedjaand mining is just a part of it16:39
pedjaI don't think prices will ever get back to the levels they were before the mining craze, not even close16:42
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.3]: xorg-xf86-input-libinput: update to 0.27.016:42
pedjaRAM manufacturers are swimming in cash, and shortage of it will only get worse, so16:46
pedjasmart of Apple to buy a part of Toshiba flash division16:47
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BurnZeZIsn’t the RAM shortage a corporate conspiracy, though?17:36
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNqQL-1gZF8 awesome17:44
joacim"You've heard about the toilets"17:51
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pedjaBurnZeZ, vendors keeping the supply low to justify price increase? wouldn't be the first time :)18:09
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pedjait doesn't really matter, thou.18:11
pedjanow, when Samsung brings their new fab online in 2019/2020(?), maybe something will change, but I doubt it18:13
pedja5 million smartphones/day. that's a fuckload of RAM18:14
joacimuntil then, we get to enjoy ram more expensive than they were 4 years ago =)18:14
pedjaI'd get used to it, joacim :)18:14
pedjaI don't see it getting better any time soon18:15
pedjathe Chinese government is a bit suspicious, and mentioned an investigation, but nothing so far, afaik18:17
pedjabut they can't really do anything. memory cartel payed a fine last time, but it was a rounding error sum, considering their profits18:19
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marakucan anybody stream youtube videos using contrib/mpv and contrib/youtube-dl?18:46
marakuafter the last update (Feb 18), i haven't been able to stream videos using mpv...18:48
j_vI've rebuilt my mpv package a couple times since then.18:55
marakuyoutube streaming works then, j_v?18:56
j_vYes, with mpv, works fine.18:57
j_vHaven't tried youtube-dl18:57
j_vTo note, I've needed to rebuild several of mpv's dependencies, also18:58
j_vI'm using a forked mpv port, but mainly, it's added deps to get the features I want18:59
j_vJust checked youtube-dl, and it works fine here also.19:01
john_cephalopodamaraku: If you are using pip, you can use that to install youtube-dl. It is always up-to-date, while the crux package can get outdated quite fast.19:07
john_cephalopodaOn the other hand it's pip...19:07
marakuyoutube-dl works fine for downloading videos, but unfortunately mpv gets "Failed to recognize file format"19:07
joacimyeh. for most python stuff, i just end up using pip instead19:07
joacimtho i always pass the --user flag19:07
joacimi never run pip as root19:07
marakuah, i use only python-* system packages19:07
marakupip's too hard to track for me19:07
joacimexport PYTHONUSERBASE="$HOME/.python"19:08
joacimI have that in my bash_profile/zshenv, and added $HOME/.python/bin to $PATH19:09
j_vsounds like youtube-dl is probably fine, though... mpv is probably the issue19:09
joacimpip install --user -U `pip list --format=legacy --user | awk '{print $1}'`19:09
joacimand i run this when i want to update my installed packages19:09
marakui think i'll stick with system packages... much easier to manage19:10
marakubut thanks for the tips joacim19:10
joacimi mostly do this because many python applications are a bit of a pain to package19:11
joacimj_v: nothing about ffmpeg or similar applications show up when you run revdep?19:12
j_vmaraku: have you run revdep? would be best place to start, but bare in mind that some of mpv's deps may also need rebuilding also.19:12
j_vjoacim: not right now... I've been running revdep pretty regular and taking care of things as they crop19:13
j_vup19:13
joacimi think i meant to highlight maraku19:13
joacimyou two have such similar nicks19:14
j_v;)19:14
tilmanthe keys are like next to each other19:17
marakui run revdep pretty regularly... so no dice there :(, i rebuilt mpv for fun but no luck19:17
joacimfor the past few weeks i have had issues with youtube-dl on my laptop. installed from ports19:17
joacimlots of stuttering video and various errors19:18
joacimafter I switched to the pip version, it's been fine19:18
j_vmaraku, right but a bunch of mpv's library deps may need to be rebuilt as well19:19
j_vi don't think those will show up on revdep19:19
j_vdeps of deps ... I've seen brokeness due to that in the last month or so. unfortunately, I didn't keep notes on which they were.19:21
marakuright j_v! i forgot about that, let me try rebuilding some of the ports listed by finddep19:22
j_vyeah, my bet is that that is probably what is going on for you19:22
marakuoh, looks like it's an mpv configure issue as mpv --ytdl says 'option ytdl (option not found)'19:25
j_vhmmm, wondering if we are using same mpv versions... 'mpv --ytdl $url' doesn't throw an error here19:28
j_vi'm using mpv-0.27.219:28
marakuyup, using the same version. are you using the one from contrib?19:29
j_vno, mine is here: https://stygian.me/crux/ports-forks/mpv19:30
j_vI don't list that repo on portdb, mainly because all those ports would show up as duplicates. And the changes are just my preferences, not more correct or anything like that.19:32
marakuah, i feel pretty silly now19:38
marakui uninstall lua52, so the lua hook did not work (facepalm)19:38
marakutime to open a ticket to document it!19:39
marakuthanks for the help j_v19:40
marakuand joacim19:40
j_vno problem... so reinstalling lua52 fixed it?19:43
marakuyup19:44
j_vcool19:44
marakui'm going to open a ticket to update the readme to include that information19:44
j_vit's kinda funny, in a way, because I mainly added the lua52 dep to get the osd to work19:45
joacimi dont think a readme is required19:46
joacimit's obvious that stuff stops working when you remove dependencies19:46
marakuyoutube-dl is an optional dependency which also requires lua5219:46
marakuthe only reason it worked before was because i was using neovim, which included a whole bunch of dependencies including lua5219:47
joacimI don't have lua52 installed, and youtube-dl works just fine19:47
marakuwith mpv?19:47
joacimyes19:47
joacimyoutube-dl is a python application. makes no sense to require lua 5.219:47
marakuerr, rather, can you stream with mpv "youtube_url"19:48
marakudownloading with youtube-dl and playing with mpv makes sense (no lua52)... but as an optional dependency for mpv i think it should be listed19:49
joacimmany applications' configure scripts pick up on other stuff that you have installed to give you optional features19:49
joacimso even tho they're not required for the application to function, the application might break when you remove those libraries19:50
j_vwhat is wrong with listing lua as dep, especially if it provides added features?19:50
j_vor at least optional dep19:50
j_vwhich is what i meant to type19:51
marakui was thinking of adding it as "Optional: youtube-dl (lua52) ..."19:51
marakuso people know it's needed for youtube-dl19:51
marakunot me, but rather me filing a bug report/telling Romster19:51
joacimhttps://i.imgur.com/M7qBLew.png19:54
joacimlua52 is not needed19:54
joacimthe osd works without lua5219:54
joacimthere is no need for lua5219:54
joacimi did not remove lua52 before the screenshot. it was never installed on this computer19:54
marakuinteresting... do you have a different lua installed that works?19:55
joacimdoes lua52 provide essential features? if not, there is no reason to add it as a dependency19:55
joacimlua and lua5119:55
joacimmpv picked up on lua51. i still dont think it should be added as a requirement19:56
marakulooks like streaming works with lua51 and lua52, but not lua19:58
marakui'd just want it added as an optional dep next to youtube-dl19:59
onoderaI use luajit with mpv which works19:59
onoderaI'm pretty sure the OSD and youtube-dl hook use lua, I don't know if they depend on a specific version though19:59
joacimthere are no optional deps with crux. just dependencies.19:59
marakuerr, $(prt-get cat mpv | grep Optional)?20:00
marakuas in suggestions by packagers20:00
joacimthey're suggested by the packager. they're not shown with prt-get info or anything like that20:00
joacimthere is no fancy command for prt-get to show them20:00
joacimyou have to go out of your way to read the Pkgfile or readme to find those suggestions20:01
marakuwhich is fine, it's just a nice note to have20:01
marakulike with the new tickets on crux.nu/bugs by chinarulezzz20:02
joacimthe optional dependencies line that many add to their Pkgfile don't always make it obvious what the optional dependency is for either20:02
marakuwith the kernel configuration suggestions20:02
j_vhence a README file, and there is a prt-get command for that20:02
marakumaybe the README is a better place then?20:02
joacimi think some of us know how many people read the readme for mpv =)20:03
marakui pretty much always read any readme's... because prt-get shows that 'package has a readme' after installing20:04
j_vok, so if many people ignore available documentation, then that's a good reason to no include it?20:04
joacimprobably not worth the effort20:04
j_vit's not your effort we're asking for here20:04
marakureally? i didn't read the README for chromium when first using crux, and i couldn't figure out why signing in didn't work20:05
joacimim sorry ill stop having opininons.20:05
j_vno, fine... your opinion is a good thing20:06
marakuopinions are fine... i just want to know why you think including the note is not a good idea20:06
marakudiscussion is important as always20:06
joacimfew people read it, people will still ask about stuff thats in the readme20:06
joacim+ i think there are more worthwhile things than optional deps that should go in the readme20:07
j_vi just disagree with not including documentation because the opinion is few people read it20:07
joacimlike post install steps20:07
marakupost-install?20:07
jaegerPersonally I think including documentation is good (tm) - if someone doesn't read it, that's not your fault20:07
j_vwhich is my opinion... i'm just a bigger prick about it i guess20:07
joacimif everything had a readme about optional deps, it would become as messy and as bad as use flags20:07
joacimmaraku: a post-install script that edits your life fstab to include the required lines?20:08
joacimthat belongs in a readme20:08
marakuseems right... but that requires people to read the README, once again20:08
joacimwhich you're only told about existing _after_ you've installed an application20:09
j_vwell, now that is a good point, and perhaps a review of the guidelines for post and pre -installs needs to be adjusted for stuff like that20:09
j_vmight already be there, will have to reread it now20:09
j_vno, it's not specific about stuff like what's allowable for post|pre install scripts, though it would be a good discussion20:11
j_vjust that it should be optional, able to run multiple times, and execute via /bin/sh20:12
joacimand i think they should be harmless. ie. no touching of fstab or modifying of config files20:13
j_vagreed, editing things like /etc/fstab via script sounds like a good recipe for bricking an install20:13
joacimadding a user or updating fonts cache or something harmless like that is fine20:13
j_vyup20:13
j_vjoacim: sorry for getting jumpy, i just thought your line of reasoning was heading toward 'just get rid of readme's, no one uses them anyways' and i should have just asked you if that's what you meant...20:18
joacimreadmes are nice, but they shouldn't be used too often, then they lose their value20:19
joacimi think there are better ways of dealing with this, like making prt-get handle optional dependencies like it does with its current dependencies20:19
joacimor at least list them with prt-get info20:20
joacimi won't champion that change tho =)20:20
joacimtoo lazy. cant be bothered.20:20
joacimthere are video games to be played20:20
jaegerprt-get does list readme if it exists20:20
joacimdo you check the readme before you install an application?20:21
jaegersometimes20:21
jaegerDefinitely not every time20:21
joacimodd =)20:21
jaegerI would if I thought of it every time.20:21
jaegerBecause I assume if there's a readme the maintainer thought it was important20:21
j_voptional dependency handling would be a nice feature, especially if it could done without too much complication (which I doubt)20:22
joacimi usually assume if there is a readme, it contains post installation steps that i should run manually20:22
jaegerThings like that I usually think would be in post-install rather than a readme but there's no guarantee20:22
jaegerAnd sometimes it makes more sense to do so in a readme, like postgresql upgrades, for example20:22
jaegerRather than to assume you know how the user wants to do it20:22
joacimi mean the kind of stuff mentioned in the chromium readme20:23
joacimthats useful20:23
joacimand contains stuff that i think is dangerous to put in a pre-/post-install script20:24
j_vthat readme is a good one, no doubt20:26
joacimkeeping track of what kind of optional dependencies an application can have would be annoying for the maintainer too20:28
joacimat least i think it would =)20:28
joacimthe one thing i like the most about crux is that it isnt annoying to make my own Pkgfile20:28
j_vok. makes complete sense. and if someone else includes optional dependencies in their Pkgfile, that shouldn't be a big deal either, seems like.20:31
j_vor puts in a README file, that may or may not get read.20:32
joacimand you're only told there is a readme file after you've installed something20:33
jaegerUnless you investigate a bit first20:34
joacimthe info is always there, so i think it is better to have optional dependencies listed in the Pkgfile, like many maintainers do20:34
jaegercheck 'prt-get info gimp' for example, the last line says "Files: README"20:34
joacimand have prt-get info show the optional deps line20:34
j_vthat would be easy to do20:34
marakudo you think an option to display the readme before/after/at all would be useful?20:37
marakualso i'm thinking the same about runscripts20:37
joacimprt-get readme already exists20:38
marakui have a script which i call from prt-get.conf https://github.com/maraku/bin/raw/master/handle-run-scripts20:38
marakuwhich allows an interactive selection20:38
joacimand i'd get annoyed if i started an update or install, and find that my computer just sat there waiting for me to read something for two hours20:38
marakuand by interactive, i mean it cats the script, then asks for press 'y' to run script or 'n' to deny20:38
marakudefinitely burned myself doing that before joacim :)20:39
marakunow i have a notify-send, which helps a bit20:39
marakubut i mean an option, which defaults to no interactivity/do not print the readme20:39
j_va possiblity, though would take some work, would be to scan all work to be done before building anything, then do the readme checks before starting anything else, also depending on if that's even wanted (which could be a setting in prt-get.conf)20:41
joacimi vote for something uncomplicated like adding optional deps to prt-get info20:41
joacimno need for interactivity i think20:42
j_vyep, that would be the most crux like thing to do20:42
marakusounds good20:43
j_vi'm looking into adding printing optional deps to prt-get right now20:43
marakuhe's a ninja!20:43
joacimnot sure how to deal with notifying the user what those optional dependencies are for20:43
marakui like arch's way of doing it20:43
maraku"youtube-dl: streaming", "cdparanoia: reading from cd's"20:44
marakuor something like that20:44
joacimyeah. similar to what i had in mine20:44
joacimmind20:44
joacim"package1 (reason), package2 (reason)"20:44
marakubut then how to deal with dependencies of optional deps?20:45
j_vjoacim: that's pretty good, any delim should work there, but i like the parens20:46
j_vs/that's/that should/20:46
j_v*work20:46
j_vdamnit20:47
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j_vok, i've got something of a poc for displaying optional dependencies... unfortunately, i did over the top of some stuff by chinarulezzz for list missing dependencies... need a bit to separate the two sets of changes.21:16
j_vpatch for 'prt-get info $name' to list optional dependencies: http://ix.io/10bY21:37
j_vcomments, suggestions, improvements welcome21:38
jaegerLooks ok to me at a glance, though c++ isn't my strong suit21:43
j_vcan try it locally without installing it: cd prt-get-$version; patch -p1 -i $patch; ./configure && make; ./src/prt-get info $name21:47
jaegerI'll have to give it a try later, got to leave soon22:05
j_vno problem, thanks for taking a look at it22:06
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