IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2018-04-02

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marakudoes contrib/openjdk8 have a signing error (Pkgfile) for anybody else?00:11
brian|lfsdid you download openjdk from oracle?01:55
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brian|lfsstrange bug02:08
brian|lfsspellcheck don't seem to work on crux 3.402:08
brian|lfsrebuilt all packages even02:08
brian|lfsreleated to aspell02:08
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: openjdk8: fix signature03:42
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.3]: gst-plugins-base-32: add dependency mesa3d-3203:54
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marakucrux.nu seems doesn't resolve for me through the normal network and tor04:13
marakus/and/or/04:14
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marakunvm, the website works again04:30
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libsoup: contrib -> opt06:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: glib-networking: contrib -> opt06:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: woff2: contrib -> opt06:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: brotli: 1.0.2 -> 1.0.306:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: brotli: contrib -> opt06:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: wine: 3.4 -> 3.506:09
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: libsoup: contrib -> opt06:10
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: glib-networking: contrib -> opt06:10
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: woff2: contrib -> opt06:10
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: brotli: contrib -> opt06:10
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libsecret: contrib -> opt06:43
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: hyphen: contrib -> opt06:43
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: harfbuzz-icu: contrib -> opt06:43
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: libsecret: contrib -> opt06:44
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: hyphen: contrib -> opt06:44
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: harfbuzz-icu: contrib -> opt06:44
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: libtasn1: contrib -> opt06:52
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libtasn1: 4.12 -> 4.1306:54
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libtasn1: contrib -> opt06:54
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brian|lfshello07:11
brian|lfsdo you all like Linux07:11
Romster-_-07:14
Romsterno i hate linux so much i spend all my time updating linux packages :P07:15
Sitrilol07:21
brian|lfslol07:22
brian|lfshey Romster07:22
brian|lfshappy easter buddy07:22
Romsterthanks brian|lfs07:25
brian|lfsCRUX 3.4 is running strong for me07:26
joacimabsolutely hate linux. it's so bad i rather use msdos07:29
Romsterfreedos?07:29
SitriUghhh07:30
SitriWe have equipment that runs MS Dos07:30
SitriNot Dr DOS or FreeDOS07:30
joacimsounds cool actually =)07:30
SitriBut good old, hasn't been sold since 9x, MS DOS07:30
SitriIt's not07:30
SitriHaving to power off the unit to do file transfers SUCKS07:31
SitriIt's done via a CF card07:31
SitriHell, wasn't until 4 years ago until it supported CF cards that were larger than 1 GB (2 GB ones were hit and miss, and 4 GB+ were absolutely not going to work)07:31
SitriAlso the file transfer is literally just a blind xcopy07:32
Romsterfun07:32
Romsterrobocopy be better07:32
SitriAlso it's very clearly a set of curses or something applications that call each other07:33
SitriGiven switching between "modes" has a notable lag where it doesn't paint the screen for a few seconds.07:34
SitriAll I want is the ability to unmount without doing a power cycle D:07:35
brian|lfsomg07:36
brian|lfsthis is too much I'm very drunk lol07:36
brian|lfsfuck MS does07:39
brian|lfsCRUX is all Linux07:39
joacima little bit of linux, the rest are Romsters packages07:41
Romsterhttps://crux.ster.zone/packages/3.4/ only just started building stuff07:48
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brian|lfsits fine Romster what you running 3.3 or 3.4?07:56
Romster3.3 still07:58
brian|lfswhy would you run an old toolchain08:26
SitriBecause 3.4 isn't public?08:26
Romsterit's not released yet08:47
Romsterbut there is a test1 iso08:48
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: webkitgtk: contrib -> opt11:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libsoup: 2.60.2 -> 2.62.011:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: [notify] glib-networking: 2.50.0 -> 2.56.0 dependencies removed: intltool libgcrypt glib added: gsettings-desktop-schemas meson ninja11:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: p11-kit: 0.23.9 -> 0.23.1011:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: p11-kit: contrib -> opt11:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: [notify] gnutls: 3.5.14 -> 3.5.18 picked up unmaintianed port, new dependencies libtasn1 p11-kit11:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: gsettings-desktop-schemas: initial import11:06
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: webkitgtk: contrib -> opt11:07
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: p11-kit: contrib -> opt11:07
brian|lfsok sleepy time for me11:11
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: libidn: updated to 1.34. New maintainer12:38
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frinnstuh. 4.16 looks like another dog13:50
Romsterkernel?13:50
ryuo"sharing is caring"... lol13:53
frinnstyes13:57
frinnstBUG: KASAN: stack-out-of-bounds in tick_sched_timer+0x61/0x21013:57
ryuois AMD bugging out big time with Linux these days?13:58
frinnstno. more like regression record in the kernel13:58
ryuook.13:58
frinnstgranted I need a amd dc patch for 4.15 because the devs wont/cant be arsed to backport it13:59
ryuofrinnst: all i remember is latest AMD tends to have a lot of glitches for 6-12 months after initial availability on Linux.13:59
frinnstI've never had more luck with intel tbh14:00
ryuoACTION shrugs.14:00
ryuoFair enough. Last few intel gens have been glitchy too.14:00
frinnsti remember my core2duo needing some magic for the chipset to be able to use all sata ports14:00
ryuoAnd their SOCs are notoriously bad on Linux.14:00
ryuoApollo Lake had a lot of bugs or hardware fixes needed to make it work.14:01
frinnstmy sandy bridge worked without issues. but it had been on the market for some time when i bought it14:01
ryuoThough, i have to wonder...14:01
Romsterby the time i get a new rig i hope all the bugs are ironed out14:01
ryuoare there *any* intel SOCs that don't suck?14:01
ryuothey always seem to be in shitty devices, build quality or otherwise.14:02
ryuoSupposedly Apollo Lake was a major improvement but still.14:02
frinnstdont have much experience with intels soc14:02
ryuofrinnst: i've used them sometimes. some modern celerons are from them.14:03
ryuothe rest are built on the core family instead.14:03
ryuohttps://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+N4200+%40+1.10GHz14:03
ryuothis is one such Apollo Lake.14:03
ryuoAbout as fast as a core2 duo.14:03
ryuoNot too bad for the price I guess.14:04
ryuoStill, i wouldn't want to use one. a core level celeron is still much better.14:05
ryuoi've been wanting to try an AMD laptop again but they're hard to find. harder than the last time i bought one... lol14:05
ryuoWow. I got by on an amd turion that slow?14:07
ryuoMan I forget a lot. That was 10 years ago.14:07
Romsterwe got a amd at work14:09
Romsteri can get you the model when i get there tomorrow well later today t's now 12:10am tuesday14:09
ryuoRomster: it's fine. i've just been considering my options for now.14:10
ryuointeresting though.14:11
ryuotoday's high end is like 3x faster than a 2008 high end from intel.14:11
ryuoi guess moore's law is basicaly over now for single threaded applications.14:11
ryuoquestion: TN vs IPS. is there really a reason to prefer either? i've almost always used TN and saw little difference the few times i've used a IPS one.14:14
jaegerPersonally I much prefer IPS or VA to TN14:14
ryuojaeger: i didn't make a choice myself. it's just what my stuff came with and i rarely had a choice.14:15
jaegerwell, you did just ask14:15
ryuoseems most new laptops are stuck with 1366x768 TN displays.14:15
jaegerThere are two main differences between IPS and TN - color reproduction and viewing angle14:16
ryuojaeger: it's fine. i was just thinking.14:16
ryuoIPS tends to be harder to find in laptops.14:16
jaegerIf those aren't things that matter to you or get in the way of some task, then it likely doesn't matter14:16
ryuothey usually don't, but what impact does it have on subpixel rendering?14:16
ryuoi couldn't find anything when i looked.14:16
ryuoor font rendering for that matter.14:17
jaegerNone, I would imagine14:17
ryuoHm. I see.14:17
jaegerdon't take my word for it, though, I'm no expert14:17
ryuook. i just thought it may change the appearance because colors are produced differently.14:18
ryuoi do know higher DPIs changes the quality of font rendering.14:18
jaegerIt's possible. I think that the quality of the panel and bleed (if there is any) would matter more but I don't know that for sure14:18
ryuobut i used some software that doesn't scale well so there's a limit to how high my DPI can go.14:19
ryuo:o14:19
ryuouse*14:19
ryuootherwise it gets too tiny.14:19
ryuoso 1920x1080 is what i usually look for. D:14:20
jaegerNothing wrong with that, you should use what's comfortable for yourself14:20
ryuoyea. if that ever changes i do think higher DPI would be fun to try.14:21
ryuoit makes fonts much nicer.14:21
ryuoi noticed a difference going from ~125 DPI to ~16014:21
pedjahow good is Linux support for high dpi monitors?14:22
ryuopedja: mixed bag. it depends largely on what software you use.14:22
ryuoweb sites? most scale up just fine but not all.14:22
ryuocinnamon claims to support much higher dpis, but i've never tried it.14:23
pedjayeah. I always have issues with Xfce not resizing properly on my netbook :)14:23
pedja10'14:23
ryuouh... yea. not surprising.14:23
ryuowhat's the resolution?14:23
ryuoif you got the resources, you could try something like cinnamon out to see if their support is any good.14:24
ryuoi presumed that was mostly for desktop users.14:24
ryuomy laptops aren't there.14:25
pedjait's an Atom netbook, even Xfce is somewhat taxing on it :)14:25
ryuoOh. That era.14:25
ryuoThe steaming pile of small laptops.14:25
pedjae17 works surprsingly well, though14:25
pedjahp mini 10014:25
ryuopedja: they make newer small laptops though not called netbooks anymore.14:26
ryuoi still remember Microsoft was shitting bricks at the time and gimped them.14:26
pedjathis one is ooold14:26
ryuowhy do you keep it?14:26
ryuoit's so slow.14:26
ryuoeven for its time.14:27
pedjato ssh to the desktop when Xorg shits itself :)14:27
ryuohell, an x200 from the same time frame would run circles around it.14:27
ryuooh. lol14:27
ryuomaybe you should get an x200 or something then. D:14:27
ryuowhenever it finally "dies"14:27
pedjathe battery is dead, I keep it on a charger14:28
pedjanot so mobile14:29
ryuomaybe you should just install PuppyLinux and call it a day. you basically use it like a "thin client" anyway.14:29
Anselmoor make a server14:30
ryuoit boggles me to find modern laptops sporting... 100/10 ethernet still.14:31
pedjaI ran FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Fedora and Tumbleweed on it so far.14:31
ryuowho are they trying to fool? gigabit should be on all of them.14:31
ryuoi understand if it's ARM, but these are x86.14:32
ryuolike the latest VivoBook from ASUS... 100/10 ethernet.14:33
ryuo Really?14:33
ryuohttp://store.asus.com/us/item/201802AM070000004/A17602-ASUS-VivoBook-F441BA-DS94-1414:33
pedjawho needs Ethernet anyway :)?14:34
ryuopedja: #troll.14:34
pedjaheh.14:34
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ryuoI do? Wifi is a complete joke most of the time.14:34
ryuoThe only pro is being wireless.14:34
pedjaBroadcom *shudder*14:34
ryuoEverything else sucks.14:35
ryuoSpeed? Hahahaha, no.14:35
ryuoReliability? Nope.14:35
ryuoCan't remember the last time ethernet randomly decided to disconnect.14:36
ryuoIt generally works and transparently.14:36
ryuoOnly real reason was HW problems, power failures, ...14:36
ryuoI once had to reboot a switch that was hampering data access for some reason.14:36
ryuoNo idea why but clients on that end of the network weren't receiving frames.14:37
ryuoor very slowly.14:37
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pedjaspeaking of laptops. jaeger, any issues so far with your new toy?14:38
pedjaXiaomi Mi, was it?14:39
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jaegerpedja: mi notebook pro, yeah. It works great. First laptop I've ever owned that suspends and resumes in linux without any tweaking, for one thing14:53
jaegerThere's a configuration issue I haven't bothered to research yet where the trackpad doesn't respond at first boot until I suspend and resume, but an arch install didn't have that problem, so I know it's something configuration related that I need to change14:54
pedjais it using libinput?14:55
jaegeryes14:55
pedjai switched to evdev, had a few issues with it14:55
jaegerI haven't felt pressed to figure it out yet, a suspend and resume fixes it... but eventually I will14:56
darfoI use exec startx -- -dpi 112 to keep the fonts the correct size in X no matter15:04
darfowhat the resolution. Have to have the DPI for each monitor I use but it keeps15:05
darfothe fonts big enough to read on hi-res.15:05
darfoI think I had -dpi 162 on a Thinkpad I was using so I didn't go blind15:06
jaegerryuo: speaking of x200s and the like, a thinkpad is probably perfect for you considering the heat conducting properties15:07
jaegerAlso not hard to find them with IPS panels15:07
jaegerAt least it wasn't back when I had my x22015:07
darfohad to measure some viewing areas and do the math with the resolution to figure out what DPI to use.15:07
darfoThinkpads are nice because they cover the metal with some rubbery stuff.15:07
darfoAt least the one I used.15:07
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pedjaI leave dpi calculation to xorg/nvidia driver.15:11
pedjaworks fine for 1920x108015:12
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darfoI mostly have just Intel video drivers.15:16
darfoI didn't know nvidia would calculate it automatically15:16
darfoxorg defaults to 96 so the fonts are really small for 1920x108015:17
darfomostly it a problem for me on laptops where the screen is small in size but the resolution is high15:17
jaegerRegarding the wifi discussion from earlier, I've been happy with mine ever since I ditched cheap consumer crap and got something a little nicer15:18
darfowhat standard b/g/n do you use?15:19
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jaegerac15:21
darfodoes it have a longer range the n?15:21
darfos/the/than/15:21
pedjajaeger, Mikrotik?15:21
jaegersupports a/b/g/n/ac both 2.4GHz and 5GHz15:22
jaegerI haven't really compared range, it covers my entire house easily15:23
jaegerpedja: Unifi UAP AC Lite15:23
pedjaah, Ubiquity15:23
jaegerI have 2 of them but have recently turned one of them off because it wasn't needed15:23
pedjathose are nice15:23
jaegerI'm happy with them so far, much better than previous junk I was using.15:24
jaegerWRT54G in the past, apple airport express, home-built pfsense box, etc.15:24
jaegerThe pfsense box was the best of the previous stuff because I used a decent wireless card but it's pretty old at this point15:24
pedjaUbiquity and Mikrotik gear have a pretty good price/quality ratio, afaik15:26
darfobest I have now is n but it doesn't reach very far15:28
jaegerI have those 2 unifi APs and a unifi switch, they're pretty good15:28
jaegerI've never used mikrotik but have heard good things15:28
pedjapretty popular here15:30
pedjamost of the WISP's use it, iirc15:30
pedjaUbiquity is using Vyatta fork as an OS?15:33
pedjaor were, at some point, iirc15:34
jaegerNo idea there15:35
pedjahow do you manage AP's? standard browser? or the switch pushes the config to them?15:36
pedja(my lack of knowledge in this area is appalling :) )15:38
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jaegerswitch and APs are both managed by t he unifi app15:42
jaegerwhich you can run pretty much anywhere15:42
jaegerI run it in a docker container15:42
ryuojaeger: better watch out or Dread Pirate Roberts might drop anchor in your harbor.15:42
ryuoD:15:42
jaegerI don't get what you mean15:48
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ryuojaeger: docker? it's built on sailor references.15:50
ryuothere's an auxiliary software called "wharf" even.15:51
jaegersure... but that's a bit of a stretch, heh15:52
frinnstedgeos is vyatta/vy-os, yeah15:52
frinnstswitchos for their edgeswitches are something elese. and unifi switches are yet something else i think. never really used their unifi switches15:52
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pedjathanks, frinnst16:35
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: cppcheck: update to 1.83 release18:40
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marakuRomster, python3-pyxdg (and presumably python-pyxdg) get's a 404 on the source tarball20:02
marakui've found a github link which has v0.26 (https://github.com/takluyver/pyxdg), but the freedesktop page only goes up to 0.25?20:03
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arbahi, i am use crux3.2, how to update my system to crux3.3 without installer crux3.3?22:43
Romsterdownload the crux-3.3 iso you can make make a cdr or usb with that. other methods take more efort and i haven't got time right now22:45
arbaok thank you22:47
joacimi think there is a document about that on the wiki22:50
joacimbut, might be risky22:51
joacimif you meant to upgrade without booting from the iso and running the upgrade from there22:51
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jaegeryes, you can mount the iso via loop device and upgrade from it with pkgadd, rejmerge, and reboot, etc.22:55
joacimalways wondered if you should build a new kernel before the reboot22:56
joacimi kinda always did regardless22:56
frinnstthe kernel from 3.3 *should* work. but not very well tested22:59
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