IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2018-04-06

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joacimpedja: quite liking this kvm switch. way nicer than what i had05:44
joacimwould be really nice if it was powered completely through usb tho05:45
brian|lfsoh your doing USB KVM05:49
brian|lfsI have a 4 computer 4 port o ne05:49
brian|lfsmine always switches USB and to switch comptuers I switch inputs on my monitor05:50
joacimi have this 2 port usb one, but the button for cycling between computers get stuck, or registers twice05:53
joacimit is pretty annoying to use05:53
joacimthis one works better with windows too. windows doesnt get as confused when i switch to other computers05:54
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parlosGood Morning08:39
parlosI'm a bit lazy, has anybody build/prepared a cloud image for Crux? (cf for use by OpenStack)08:41
Romsternot i, i did do a docker one ages ago.08:46
frinnsthm, does our samba port still support smbv1?09:19
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Romstercrux.nu is not reachable?10:10
Romsteri git pushed to it not that long ago. but web site wont load now10:10
joacimworks for me10:10
Romstereh it pinged and it now loads.10:10
Romsterit was out a moment ago...10:11
joacimyou fixed it =)10:11
Romsteri reloaded 4 times too.10:11
joacim"During operation, please do not throw the mouse and take care to avoid collision with computer monitors and other house hold items"10:28
pedjanice, joacim. did you ever ask them about shipping proper power cord with it? iirc, you had some issues with that?10:40
joacimnope10:41
joacimjust got a dollar adapter from ebay10:41
pedjaheh10:47
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pedjaapparently, one of the reasons Autodesk stays away from Linux is 'Linux users have under-powered hardware that can't handle CAD software properly'.11:18
pedja'they are too cheap to buy a Windows licence, so it's safe to assume that they won't spend on hardware either'11:19
pedjainteresting 'logic'11:21
frinnstlol11:22
frinnstwhere did you read that?11:22
pedjatheir Meshmixer sw had an 'experimental' Linux version, since dropped because reasons11:22
pedjatheir forum, in the thread for one of the most requested features, Linux version of Fusion36011:23
joacimim sure their software runs so much better on consumer laptops that windows users usually get11:24
pedjaa lot of people commented in the thread that all they have to do is package it for one, or a few of popular distributions, or make an Appimage11:25
pedja13+ pages of discussion, and the end result is 'nah, can't be bothered'11:27
pedjathey are pushing their 'thin' Web client instead, Onshape-like11:28
pedjaCAD in the cloud is non-starter for many people11:28
frinnstwe will get a gpu blade soon for evaluation. will be fun to test11:31
frinnstp6000 or something11:31
pedjaooh, shiny11:31
Romsterbit mining?11:31
frinnsthehe11:31
frinnstno, gonna see what we can do with it. virtualized cad, video editing and stuff like that11:32
pedjavGPU?11:32
frinnstyep11:32
pedjanice11:32
pedjasomething like that is ideal for CUDA-accelerated photogrametry11:35
pedja(3d model from photographs, basically)11:36
pedjaCUDA makes a difference even on my pathetic gt640 :)11:37
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pedjait's interesting that AMD WX line of professional GPUs is cheaper than the 'gamer' ones11:49
pedjamostly11:50
pedjap6000 has ECC RAM, which, if I am reading the docs correctly, has to be disabled if it is used as a vGPU. wait, what?11:59
frinnstno clue. have spent maybe 5 minutes checking it out11:59
frinnstits just a loan from HP that we're sending back after 2 months or so12:00
pedja'[...]However, NVIDIA vGPU does not support ECC memory. If ECC memory is enabled, NVIDIA vGPU fails to start.' http://docs.nvidia.com/grid/6.0/grid-vgpu-release-notes-vmware-vsphere/index.html12:02
pedjaI am sure you'll figure something out to test it properly :)12:05
pedjasomething like gaming FOR SCIENCE!12:07
frinnst:>12:08
ryuofrinnst: is it common for "modern" laptops to lack ethernet ports, or gigabit ethernet?13:03
frinnstpretty common these days i think13:04
frinnstgenerally the ones we buy for customers come with ethernet, or we dont buy them13:05
ryuook...13:05
frinnstmost mac stuff lacks a proper nic iirc13:05
ryuothat just filtered most laptops for me then.13:05
ryuoapparently thinness is too important now.13:05
frinnsta lot of hp laptops have the port partly covered. you need to "open it up" to plug in a cable13:06
frinnstworks ok as long as you dont need to swap cable every minute13:06
ryuothat's better than no port at all.13:06
pedjawhen Apple removed headphone jack from iPhone, it was hilarious to watch the fanboys 'oh, so brave, bravo!' reaction13:07
ryuoseems like consumer laptops are the worst effected.13:10
ryuogamer/business ones seem less likely.13:10
pedjathe trend seems to be Thunderbolt NIC dongle thingie for laptops13:11
ryuopedja: thought it was USB.13:11
pedjastarting this year, Thunderbolt is no longer Intel exclusive, so I can see more vendors adding it13:13
pedjaroyalty-free, iirc13:13
pedjaor something like that13:13
ryuothough why would i want to use a dongle for ethernet?13:14
ryuoit seems way more bulky.13:14
frinnstwhy when usb exist?13:15
pedjabut the laptop stays fashionably thin :)13:15
pedjaand TB can push 10gig ethernet13:15
frinnstso can usb13:15
frinnst3.113:15
ryuopedja: fashion? bah.13:15
pedjaoh, really? didn't know that13:15
frinnsthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#USB_3.113:16
ryuowhy should I care about 10G?13:16
ryuoi have no network that supports it.13:16
frinnstnot with that attitude!13:16
frinnst1gbit is starting to become the bottleneck13:16
ryuono, i mean, *literally* none of my networking devices support it.13:17
frinnstwith ssds everywhere etc13:17
AnselmoI use faster intranet than I've ever had internet . .13:17
ryuono motivation to upgrade for now.13:17
ryuofrinnst: maybe, but i'm still quite happy with it.13:18
ryuofrinnst: but with a lack of end device support, it's not worth upgrading at home yet.13:18
frinnstno, ofcourse13:18
ryuoplus, the wiring would have to be replaced.13:19
frinnstits still very expensive13:19
ryuoit's cat5e.13:19
frinnstyeah, thats why they introduced 2.5 and 5gbit - supposed to run on cat5e13:19
frinnsthavent really seen any devices with it in the wild13:19
ryuothey shoulda just made it so 10G devices could negotiate reduced line modes.13:20
ryuobut w/e.13:20
frinnstgbit was pretty expensive at first too. but it quickly dropped in price13:20
frinnst10gbit has been around for a long time now without much price drop13:21
ryuofrinnst: yea... i consider it ridiculious to not make your ethernet gigabit these days.13:21
ryuoDell only ships 100 megabit it seems like.13:21
frinnstwhat?13:21
ryuofrinnst: yes... i looked at their AMD ryzen laptops.13:22
ryuothe ones with ethernet are 100 megabit only.13:22
frinnstwtf.. that cant be right13:22
ryuoIt is. I checked their product specs in the manuals.13:22
ryuohttp://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/inspiron-17-5775-laptop_setup-guide_en-us.pdf13:22
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ryuo10/100 Mbps Ethernet controller13:23
ryuointegrated on system board13:23
frinnstvery odd13:23
ryuoi find it unacceptable but their choice.13:23
frinnstyep13:23
ryuoi usually only need 10/100 but when i transfer files i really need that gigabit.13:24
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frinnstfucking webmonkeys13:54
ryuofrinnst: literal monkies?13:55
frinnst"i've finished the website and we need to make it live. Lets transfer the domain to the webhotel - what can go wrong?"13:55
frinnst"oh, why did email break?"13:55
ryuoACTION facepalms.13:55
frinnstits the second time a webdeveloper has done this to the same customer13:55
ryuoif they're going to do that, do it to a sub-domain.13:56
frinnsttwo different developers within a span of maybe 3 years13:56
frinnstthey changed the DNS servers13:56
ryuoOh...13:56
ryuoWTH13:56
ryuothat's even worse.13:56
frinnstyep13:56
ryuoi would never screw with production name servers.13:56
ryuoi might add sub-domains for testing, but this is ridiculious.13:57
frinnstthe first developer that fucked it up a few years ago did a registrar *TRANSFER*13:57
frinnstwonder if this customer has learned to not give out that information to fucking retards13:57
ryuoare software developers generally this inept, frinnst?13:57
frinnstyes13:57
frinnstits fucking scary13:57
ryuowow.13:57
ryuoi'm a software developer but i actually have IT experience.13:58
frinnstI was recently emailed an EV cert complete with comodo login, private key etc in CLEAR TEXT13:58
frinnstafk, need to setup a SMB1 fileserver for a windows 2000 computer running on an amd geode with 64mb ram13:59
frinnst(not joking)13:59
ryuowhy win2k?13:59
ryuoo.O13:59
frinnstits for one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRxHg-BIW6M14:00
frinnsttalked with the vendor earlier today. they do offer upgrades. from windows 95 to windows 200014:01
frinnst......14:01
ryuowhat, do these people live in the stone age?14:01
ryuohow does it interface? USB?14:01
frinnstits how manufacturing work, pretty much. sure you can buy a new machine for a few hundred K, but the machine itself works fine14:02
frinnstbut transfering data via floppy some tiresome i guess14:02
ryuooh, right. industrial.14:02
ryuothey're always behind the times.14:02
frinnstthey are almost in the 2000's now!14:03
ryuoand can't be bothered to provide updated drivers.14:03
ryuofrinnst: so it's primarily *web* developers? what about other areas?14:21
pedjawindows 2000? damn, that's modern, cnc plasma cutter where I used to work was controlled by a DOS machine14:30
pedjaMS-DOS, not that new and shiny FreeDOS14:31
frinnstryuo: I rarely come into contact with other developers through work14:33
ryuofrinnst: ah, i see.14:34
frinnstwell, ERP developers are retarded too, but everyone knows that14:34
ryuoit may just be web developers then.14:34
ryuoERP?14:34
frinnstthink it stands for enterprise resource planning14:35
frinnstthink SAP etc14:35
ryuofrinnst: btw, did you hear about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide? every year, it ruins property and kills people.14:35
frinnstyeah, is lethal. If you completely surround yourself with it you die14:36
ryuoi presume you know what it is.14:36
frinnstim starting a campaign to get it banned here in sweden.14:36
ryuo(:14:36
frinnst:>14:36
ryuohaha14:36
ryuohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax14:36
frinnstit even comes from the skies!14:36
ryuoit's one of my favorite ways to test how gullible people are.14:36
ryuoi like to see who will actually question what it is first.14:37
frinnsttbh, erp developers have to work with a codebase usually written in the 70s14:37
ryuoah...14:37
ryuoouch. legacy.14:37
ryuoC is ancient too but not always used in legacy codebases.14:37
frinnstthere are a few systems in use in sweden. all shit14:37
ryuofrinnst: does "web" developer also include ASP.NET?14:38
frinnsthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visma14:38
ryuoor just PHP family?14:38
frinnstyou can really limit it to "wordpress"14:38
ryuoOh...14:38
ryuowordpress.14:38
ryuoACTION facepalms.14:38
frinnsteverything is wordpress. especially things that shouldnt be wordpress14:38
ryuoI guess people think cheap = good.14:39
ryuoi'm frankly wanting to try out some web dev with a Perl framework one of these days.14:39
ryuoi'm wanting to learn Perl this summer.14:40
ryuoit's the most useful language I can think of to bother with.14:40
jaegerJust don't ever let anyone else touch it and that'll be fine :)14:40
ryuolmao.14:40
ryuoisn't Perl common in IT work anyway?14:40
pedjadidn't python took over when shell scripts get too complex?14:41
ryuos/python/perl/14:42
ryuoi can't stand python.14:42
pedjaI'd guess, with the rise of devops, that python and ruby are more common in IT then perl14:43
pedjaansible/salt/chef14:44
pedjaI forget what the 4th one CM is14:45
pedjapuppet?14:46
jaegerI never use perl, haven't in over a decade14:46
jaegerThat's not because there's anything wrong with perl, though, it's purely because people suck at maintaining clean perl14:47
ryuoi see.14:47
ryuoi figured i'd like to learn Perl because of how similar it is to the languages I already use.14:47
ryuoPHP, too specialized for web for my tastes.14:48
jaegerI'm not trying to discourage you from learning it, it's a very useful language14:48
ryuoRuby/Python, not really my thing.14:48
jaegerJust not my preference, personally14:48
ryuoyea... i've considered all the top 20s.14:48
ryuoPerl is the only one that really makes sense to me.14:48
jaegerI suppose int he end you can get the job done (tm) in all of these languages, probably14:48
jaegerSo use one you like and that you can maintain or easily pass on to others to maintain14:48
ryuoi've failed to adopt new languges because they failed to provide me a reason to keep using them.14:49
ryuonot much incentive for how i use software, but Perl seems perfect.14:49
ryuoit's got this niche between shell and real PL.14:49
jaegerWith all that said, I'm a sysadmin first and a scripter/programmer later, when it's useful for my job or when I have a project that needs doing14:49
pedjaryuo, you are a C guy, right?14:50
ryuoit feels incredible how productive I can be with Perl, and it's got conventions from C, sed, and awk that make it a lot easier to get into.14:50
ryuopedja: yes.14:50
ryuoI think i understand where Perl excels. it's great for people used to UNIX conventional languages.14:51
ryuopedja: how else do you think I wrote revdep?14:52
ryuoi also use C++ sometimes instead.14:52
pedjaso this thread may make more sense to you then :) https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/3/20/84515:07
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ryuopedja: lol.15:15
ryuowow. super hacky...15:17
ryuoturns out _Generic doesn't work with gcc.15:22
ryuoWow.15:24
ryuook.... that crazy hack could be done with some compiler extensions.15:24
ryuowhy... use this hack?15:24
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pedja'That is either genius, or a seriously diseased mind.' so, Linus is impressed, I presume15:36
pedjaor horrified. or both.15:37
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druid_droid_webHello :)16:10
druid_droid_webI was having problems with firefox, it was corrupting the filesystem. I configured apparmor and solved the problem. :) https://www.minds.com/newsfeed/82901738604026265616:12
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frinnsthow the f did firefox corrupt your filesystem?16:30
frinnstand what does apparmor have to do with it?16:30
frinnstwhat firefox version?16:30
druid_droid_webHi frinst, sorry was just finishing above post, I updated some links.16:57
druid_droid_webthat's a good question, at first I was thinking was the disk about to die, but then I realize that they only become ro after I start ff16:57
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druid_droid_webI got the feeling my ff was terrible wrong in the past with grsecurity, and to get control to what it does I choose apparmor to start.16:59
druid_droid_webat least I can browse while I don't fix it, it allows me at the moment to get other work done until I have more time to think about the browser17:00
druid_droid_webanother thing I discover is that I got problems with pkg-get getting only the last version of a port17:00
frinnstalright. feel free to paste logs / more info etc when you have it17:01
druid_droid_webI don't understand much about apparmor yet, just fixed my problem, but I notice some changes are needed to some default profiles17:03
frinnstyou were using a grsecurity kernel when the corruption happened?17:04
druid_droid_webmaybe add to port the changed ones17:04
druid_droid_webin past I was using grsecurity and different pkgmk.conf,17:05
druid_droid_webthat allowed to see how some softwarke break, don't build (I tested lot of different flags and I don't yet finished), and how they behave17:07
druid_droid_web*sorry errors17:07
druid_droid_webI end up with this; https://github.com/s1lvino/c9-doc/blob/master/core/conf/pkgmk.conf.harden but I need to test again and learn more about, since I'm just "guessing" some things XD17:09
pedjaKISS principle applies to CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS too, imho. 'ricing' them is too much pain for little, if any, gain18:00
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pedjaIntel optimized their Clear Linux up to 11, and it *is* faster for some workloads, apparently, but it's main use, afaict, is for containers18:15
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crash_i just add -march=native and that's all :)18:27
crash_no need to configure for ever18:27
john_cephalopodapedja: Does Intel's Clear Linux come with Spectre and Meltdown patches? ;รพ18:31
pedjajohn_cephalopoda, hop to #clearlinux and ask?18:34
pedjayay, latest libvirt still fails to build if the previous version is already installed.18:38
ryuopedja: Progress!18:39
pedjawhy the hell it tries to link with old libs, and fails miserably?18:40
brian|lfsrevdep your system maybe?18:41
pedjalibraries from the existing install18:42
ryuo"Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."18:42
pedjaheh18:42
brian|lfsI'm building my gcc-fortran 7.3 apperantly I use it for so mething lol18:42
Anselmoblender is always why I need that  . .18:43
ryuo"Does Anselmo blend? Let's find out..."18:43
Anselmo>_>18:43
brian|lfslol18:43
AnselmoI-i just install all sorts of software18:44
pedjablender is using gcc-fortran? for what?18:44
brian|lfswhy  is anything using fortran as a dep18:44
AnselmoI dont know and have never looked into it18:44
Anselmowait is that why you need it, too brian ?18:45
pedjaopenblas depends on it18:45
pedjabunch of other sciency stuff, too18:46
pedjaapparently, fortran is big in that community18:46
Anselmoperson I know who does physics stuff uses fortran a lot18:47
pedjayeah, lots of software is using it still18:47
pedjatakes its sweet time to build on my potatoputer18:48
pedjatbh, most things do :)18:49
Anselmohaha18:50
Anselmowell, I tend to try to not consider how much time I have things compiling x-x18:50
pedjaah. blender depends on fftw, which depends on gcc-fortran.18:52
ryuohttp://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/inspiron-17-5775-laptop_setup-guide_en-us.pdf19:24
ryuointeresting. it lists "Ubuntu", but no such configuration is offered.19:24
ryuomaybe they intend to expand their offerings later? they also don't yet offer ryzen 7 2700U though it's in the manual.19:24
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brian|lfsmy compiler and gcc-fortran aren't playing nice21:15
brian|lfsalong with lapack21:15
brian|lfspython-scipy21:15
brian|lfsall looking for the old gcc-fortran21:16
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cruxbot[core.git/3.3]: man-db: updated to 2.8.321:32
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: sysstat: updated to 11.6.321:33
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brian|lfshttps://paste.pound-python.org/show/NPQKonLTCu8Mckcrg78A/21:55
brian|lfsany ideas21:55
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pedjayou mean numpy?22:59
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pedjabrian|lfs, try to build something that's using gcc-fortran but not cmake to build, like openblas23:12
pedjalapack-3.8.0 should build with gcc7-fortran, if Arch is to be believed :)23:21
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