IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2018-05-02

jaegerI would imagine you can but haven't tried00:00
jaegercheck the xinput list-props output for the device, maybe00:01
joacimthere is a scroll method00:02
joacimbut i dont see anything about scroll speed00:03
joacimor number of lines skipped when scrolling00:03
jaegerbummer00:11
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elderKHey guys, I just installed linux-pam as it's required for i3lock.07:38
elderKI've never used PAM before.07:38
elderKAnd I wonder what things I should rebuild on the system to take advantage / work with PAM.07:38
frinnstprobably most things07:38
frinnst:>07:38
elderKi3lock seem sto expect /etc/pam.d/login which doesn't exist :P07:39
elderK:P07:39
elderKThat actually raises a good question: After I install all the stuff I want on the system - when should I rebuild the "world"?07:39
elderKSome stuff could be enhanced by stuff installed later.07:39
elderKUnfortunately, I am unaware of which.07:39
frinnstiirc jaeger had a bunch of pam ports07:39
elderKIs there any way to rebuild the system in say, topological order? :D07:40
elderKSo that all the leaves are rebuilt, then their deps and so on?07:40
frinnstnot sure if he still maintains those. the topic of pam tend to come up ever so often07:40
elderKIs PAM worth it? :P Or should I just use a different locker?07:40
frinnstif you only need a locker, i'd use slock or something similar07:40
elderKYeah. I'm not sure how bothered I can be with PAM.07:43
elderK:P07:43
elderKStill, I'd be interested in the "rebuild world" thing.07:43
elderKWhen *Should* you rebuild everything together?07:43
frinnstwhen updating the toolchain, if you can be bothered07:43
frinnst:)07:43
elderKNo other real reason?07:44
frinnstyou wouldnt need to after installing pam, only auth stuff more or less. just its easier to do a "prt-get -fr update $(prt-get listinst)" and do something else for a while :-)07:44
elderKI was also wondering if finddeps has a mode that lists only /direct/ dependencies.07:45
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ryuoyou ever get the feeling that "fragile" means "indestructible" to shipping companies?07:48
ryuolol07:48
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elderKhahahah07:51
elderKyes.07:51
elderKfrinnst: Can you recommend any lockers?07:51
frinnstslock07:51
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YrpmZFixp007:52
elderKHow does it work? I can find very little on it.07:52
elderKSuckless usually make awesome shit though07:52
frinnstyou type "slock" and it locks your screen :-)07:52
elderKNo text field or anything for input?07:52
elderKYou just enter the password and boom?07:52
frinnstyep07:52
elderKSweet.07:53
frinnstI use it together with xautolock07:53
frinnst"xautolock -time 15 -locker slock &"07:53
elderKSweet - I imagine that takes care of invoking it when yknow, idle :P07:53
frinnstno its simple :-)07:53
elderKI mean xautolock :D07:53
frinnstah, yes07:53
elderKCan you chain this with say, pm-suspend?07:54
frinnstshould work just fine07:54
elderKSweet.07:54
elderKRebuilding shadow after installing libpam seemed to make no difference :P07:54
elderKI guess I'd have to edit the Pkgfile or something for it.07:55
elderK(prt-get readme linux-pam :D)07:55
frinnstwell you'd need to remove "--without-libpam" :)07:57
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elderKheh08:57
elderKWell, yes.08:57
elderKBut the problem is, I have no idea what things *work* with libpam.08:57
elderKfrinnst: i3lock is a little weak in that you can just kill it from a terminal, and bypass it.09:09
elderKI wonder if all lockers are like that.09:09
frinnstthink so, its a X11 limitation09:09
elderKSure, you can't use i3wm anymore to open windows and things. But you can still interact with anything that is open, say, a terminal. Or FF or wahtever.09:09
elderKIt kinda makes lockers pointless.09:09
frinnstits just a program that places itself ontop and takes keyboard/mouse focus09:10
elderKI guess one way you could get around that is by making sure there are no extra VTs.09:10
frinnstyou should be able to kill it with sysrq etc09:10
elderKAnd I guess, if you try to kill the locker, you still need to log in anyway.09:10
elderKHow so?09:10
frinnstswitching the keyboard to raw, change VT09:11
elderKYeah but that assumes you have VTs set up.09:12
frinnstkill with oom_kill etc09:12
frinnstyes09:12
frinnstif you have physical access, nothing is safe09:12
frinnstyou could also remove the harddrive :-)09:12
elderKAh, the kernel magic sysrq needs to be enabled.09:13
john_cephalopodaI got it enabled because gpu drivers tend to fuck up.09:13
john_cephalopodaBut I am usually only logged in on one VT at once.09:14
frinnstoops09:32
frinnsthttps://63aa84ed659d0a01.paste.se/09:32
elderKI would disable the rest of the VTs but man, they are so useful when X shits itself.09:41
elderKOr when you do something weird by mistake with the WM09:41
elderK:P09:41
elderKAnd yknow, need to kill shit.09:41
elderKOne of these days, I'm going to set up a system with full-disk encryption.09:41
elderK:P A week where I can spend 3-4 days building/tweaking/etc.09:41
elderKMost all configuration and shit I use is under version control. But building alone still takes a long time.09:42
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ryuohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTB3AEEUju812:08
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frinnstgod i hate that guy12:48
ryuofrinnst: who?12:53
frinnstthat linus guy12:53
ryuofrinnst: why? people seem to love it.12:53
joacimlinus thorvalds is the worst12:53
frinnstwhen im in a bad move i watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSrnXgAmK8k12:54
frinnst3 raid5 volumes raided over raid012:55
frinnstso epic12:55
ryuo... so it means the whole array failed if one does?12:56
frinnstyes12:56
ryuoraid0 makes no sense for top-level.12:56
frinnstbecause raid5 is the best raid type to use12:56
frinnst:D12:56
ryuoi thought that was raid6.12:57
frinnstyeah raid5 is *not* the type to use12:57
frinnstunless you run ~50gb disks or something12:57
ryuoI only use raid1.12:57
ryuothen again i don't own a shitload of disks.12:58
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ryuoit's the safest choice, but it also sacrifices the most capacity.12:59
frinnstYou are receiving this mail because you are a RIPE NCC voting contact for Valvea AB. This is your chance to give your input on how the RIPE NCC operates and who will lead the organisation in the coming years.12:59
frinnstthats not a smart choice for ripe :D12:59
ryuofrinnst: maybe they wanted the stinkiest choice they could find?13:00
frinnstThere are currently 18 vote(s) registered for Sweden13:01
frinnst17 now :D13:01
john_cephalopodaI basically use raid1 by saving all my important data on my desktop PC and also on my laptop.13:05
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ryuofrinnst: what's the issue with LTT?13:09
ryuofrinnst: not accurate enough?13:09
john_cephalopodaAnd those people didn't have a backup of their disks?13:15
joacimi dont know why frinnst is such a grumpy bastard about ltt13:18
joacimbut my issue with it is he is too damn loud, too damn inaccurate, and their videos promote stupid crap like baking components, way unsafe file servers, stupid overpowered computers13:19
ryuojoacim: ah. i found it entertaining.13:20
joacimthe smaller ones are dumb too tho. like drilling holes in motherboards because their heatsink screws were too long for the LGA2011 bracket13:20
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joacim+ they kinda end up promoting gamer bs13:22
ryuoyea... ironically a modern celeron would probably be just fine for me.13:23
ryuonot the fastest CPU, but it gets the job done. not a bad choice if you don't run demanding crap all the time.13:23
john_cephalopodaIf I wasn't using CRUX, I'd be ok with a Pentium 4.13:23
frinnstnot if you use a modern browser13:24
ryuofrinnst: who? me?13:24
frinnstno john_cephalopoda13:24
frinnstGCC 8.1 Released13:24
frinnst\o/13:24
frinnstcrux 3.5!13:24
john_cephalopodaI use Tor Browser on highest security settings.13:24
pedjaCore2 ftw13:24
ryuocore2... bleh.13:25
AnselmoACTION has a core2 too13:25
ryuousing one right now and the GPU has glitches in electron software.13:25
joacimpretty lame that browsers make people do system upgrades13:25
frinnstryuo: the videos i've seen (granted, not many) have been full of bad advice and errors13:25
frinnstive only watched his storage stuff13:25
pedjaLTT? yeah13:25
Anselmojoacim: yeah x-x13:25
frinnstI loved when he built a watercooled server and mounted it *above* his big nas13:25
john_cephalopodaI'd like to play around with CRUX on a RISC-V chip.13:26
ryuofrinnst: there's no way i'm ever using water-cooling. if it ever leaks, OH SHIT.13:26
john_cephalopodafrinnst: I always sloppily mount hair driers over my bath tub.13:26
joacimfrinnst: i cringe when i see these youtube people review storage cases, and end up looking for spots for radiators13:26
joacimremoving points if they cant fit some random 240mm radiator13:26
john_cephalopodaRadiators cause radiation and radiation is dangerous. :รพ13:27
ryuoare there any OEMs that build water-cooled desktops even?13:28
john_cephalopodaI bet AlienWare has something like that.13:28
pedjaboutiques ones do13:29
john_cephalopodahttp://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/alienware-area51-r513:30
ryuoSeems the spring windows 10 is out.13:32
jaegerI enjoy LTT :D Because it's an entertainment channel, not "the most serious tech" channel13:34
jaegerThey do stupid shit intentionally for views and fun13:34
john_cephalopodajaeger: But people might repeat their mistakes.13:36
pedjawhich famous youtuber broke his Threadripper m/b?13:36
ryuoNo idea. I don't follow celebrity crap.13:36
jaegersure, but it's not like they're responsible for the stuff people do after watching their videos13:37
ryuoRemember the LTT video crossver with ross?13:38
ryuohttps://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup13:38
ryuoHe seemed more serious.13:38
pedjaI only watch LTT when he has Wendell or TechDeals guy as a guest :)13:41
jaegerHe was somewhat more serious back when it was actually LTT but not nearly so much with LMG now13:42
ryuojaeger: maybe what changed was having to be more apeting to corporate sponsors.13:43
ryuoappealing*13:43
pedjahe has what, 5.5 million subs?13:43
jaegerNo idea there, maybe13:43
ryuohard to dismiss that. it does have an influence on what can be said and done w/o risking the sponsorship.13:44
ryuojust look at all the shitfest advertisers have had over their stuff appearing on certain videoes13:44
pedjathe majority of the 'reviewers' is doing it for free shit. no surprise there13:45
ryuohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP979boVxZc13:46
pedjabut it's cute when they try to establish themselves as 'serious' sources of information13:47
jaegerMaybe you guys are more cynical than I :)13:47
pedjagive it time :)13:47
pedjathere is a huge difference between derbauer deliding 2000$ cpu to see how it works and breaking shit for 'entertainment'13:50
ryuoanyone watch the 8-bit guy?13:51
pedjasometimes, when I am in retro mood :)13:52
pedjastill have an atari 130xl somewhere13:53
pedjaxe*13:54
frinnstgoddamn chicken didnt sit well13:54
frinnstwonder if this is how it feels to swallow a football13:54
ryuofrinnst: ouch. sorry to hear that.13:55
pedjaamerican or european football?13:55
ryuopedja: what's the average air speed of an unladen swallow?13:55
ryuo=p13:55
Anselmoboth are horribly huge to swallow13:55
Anselmofootballs that is . . .13:56
frinnsti think an american would go down easier13:57
frinnstpointy and everything13:58
pedja'a prolate spheroid'13:58
frinnsthand-egg13:59
pedjaI met some Benetton rugby players few years back. damn, they are huuuge14:00
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXfC16rv_fs14:00
pedjahow the hell you come up with this videos so fast :) ?14:01
frinnstdont you know iasip by heart?14:01
pedjaI stopped watching after S2, I think14:02
frinnstffs14:02
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFDU_R6ShmI14:02
pedjayay, my ISP will double the upload speed, to 4Mbit (soon-ish)14:04
frinnstgoddamn youtube related, afternoon gone watching iasip clips14:07
ryuoWow.14:32
ryuohttps://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/sqlite314:32
ryuo"While easy to use, SQLite is not intended as a production grade database."14:32
ryuoWhat BS. Who says that?14:32
ryuoThe sqlite website even says: SQLite is a self-contained, high-reliability, embedded, full-featured, public-domain, SQL database engine. SQLite is the most used database engine in the world."14:32
ryuoHow is that *not* production grade?14:32
joacimim sure there arent many using homegroups in windows15:22
joacimbut damn, removing something like that with an automatic windows update seems like the most stupid thing to do15:22
joacimthat kind of shit just causes more work and problems for their users15:22
joacimgoing to be people waking up today wondering why they cant print15:23
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ryuojoacim: it's like them asking why they can't use the toilets today because the plumbers upgraded the plumbing and didn't do it quite right.15:56
john_cephalopodaprt-get update -fr plumbing16:25
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uriel-iihi all17:04
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uriel-ii /msg NickServ identify ghidora017:24
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ryuoOk...17:25
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: xfsprogs: update to 4.16.117:30
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: sshfs-fuse: update to 3.3.217:30
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: nano: update to 7.0.7-2917:30
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: imagemagick: update to 7.0.7-2917:30
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: dar: update to 2.5.1517:30
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.3]: libinput: update to 1.10.617:32
joacimugh. loads of broken shortcuts after the win10 update. the applications are still there tho, just the shortcuts are broken17:50
joacimhow does that even happen17:50
joacimseen ms dump some html file on the desktop of customers before. listing all the applications they saw fit to remove17:51
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Sitriryuo: sqlite doesn't actually follow constraints and a few other things that make it not fully compliant.18:38
SitriIt's also /slow/ when you get a DB of a decent size18:38
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jaegerIt also has an interesting bug whereby 2 separate clients reading it at the same time can corrupt a database19:54
jaegerThough I'm not able to replicate that behavior on command19:54
SitriNice20:05
jaegerwith that said, it's still damn handy20:07
jaegerI used it for my portdb20:07
SitriOh yeah, but don't assume it's a proper SQL DB20:07
jaegerThat's the only problem I've had from it so far but I'd certainly test thoroughly before using it for something load-bearing20:08
SitriYeah20:10
pedjaone of the easiest ways to add tension to the video review is 'Trust me, I am an engineer'20:15
pedjaheh. the cheapest rx580 here is 350 euros, which is only what, 80% over MSRP?20:19
jaeger80% over? they've come back down! hehe20:20
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pedjamore expensive models even come with some 'free' games ;)20:22
pedjajaeger, any thoughts on AMD Ryzen2 bundles available in the USA? 'combat crate bundles' :)20:25
jaegerinteresting idea, first I'd heard of it20:26
pedjasorry, Ryzen1. numbers are hard...20:26
jaegerwould be MORE interesting if it were ryzen 220:27
cruxbot[opt.git/3.3]: imagemagick: update to 7.0.7-3020:42
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joacimpedja: just "trust me" is good enough to get me triggered21:49
joacimi think people should produce a believable argument if they want people to "trust"21:50
joacimalso.. i like that engineer is not a protected title here =)21:51
joacimanyone can say it21:51
joacimso you dont get bs court cases over "social engineer" or something like that21:51
joacimif a company believes you're competent, you can get hired as an engineer even without a degree. don't have to trick everyone by making a dedicated title just for you21:52
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frinnsthttps://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/05/iot_inspector_t.html22:19
pedjajoacim, I meant more in the 'famous last words' sense :)22:23
joacimah22:23
joacimin that case, go right ahead =)22:23
joacimi'll watch. and film22:23
pedjaI worked with a fair number of engineers over the years, and I find that the good ones use that phrase ironically most of the time :)22:26
pedjathey are easier to work with, too, in my experience. less likely to be an asshole22:28
joacimi think the most dangerous techies are the ones that just figured out how to assemble a computer from parts22:34
joacimthey end up creating huge messes for me =)22:35
pedjaassembling it from quality parts is easy, most of the time. in a budget case, however :)22:38
joacimi mean when they have to deal with problems with customers22:38
joacimbad sectors on the hdd, why is the pc in pieces, why aren't you rmaing the hdd so the customer can get a replacement asap22:39
joacimthat kind of stuff22:39
joacimalso, why are you wasting your day reinstalling everything on it when the hdd needs replacing anyways22:39
joacimsend it in and let asus deal with it. they'll also reinstall it so we dont have to22:40
pedjayou nuke hdds before you rma them, I presume22:42
joacimsend them to their service centre22:46
joacimand trust they do the right thing22:46
joacimif i crush them, customers rma wont be approved and i get to pay for it22:46
joacimand got no time for overwriting data for a day or two. effort, and customers will complain about slower service time22:47
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pedjatesting if crypto-shredding is more feasible than something like DBAN is on my TODO list23:08
pedjadon't have any extra hardware to play with for now :)23:09
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