IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2018-05-14

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brian|lfsany ideas can't get lynx to rebuild https://paste.pound-python.org/show/zoX26zzb2T7seklMofVf/05:07
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frinnsthttp://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-ncurses/2017-03/msg00009.html06:35
frinnsthttps://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-ncurses/2017-03/msg00016.html06:36
brian|lfswell it says no recompile should work fine lol07:02
brian|lfs\wtf07:02
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frinnstanybody knows whos balls you need to tickle at nvidia to get access to their enterprise downloads?08:16
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john_cephalopodaCoca Cola should make an ice tea called "RealiTea", so they can make a spot like "Is this the real Sprite? \ Is this just Fanta sea? Coke in a landslide, \ no escape from RealiTea."09:17
Romsteromg09:21
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: lynx:  ->09:45
Romsterugh i derped on that09:46
frinnstno BASICS no fun09:53
Romsterfudge really derped i didn't add the patches...09:54
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: lynx: add the missing patches09:55
Romsterugh i should never do any commits when i am feeling ugh09:55
frinnst:>09:55
frinnstcommits are best done while drunk09:55
Romsterhah09:56
ryuofrinnst: now we know why your nickname is the drunken lemur.09:56
john_cephalopodagit commit -a -m "98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer on the wall."09:56
ryuo:P09:56
Romsterdon't tempt me john_cephalopoda09:57
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: if those were bud light, it'd be bottles of water.09:57
john_cephalopodaThey could make bud light lighter by leaving out the water.09:58
ryuobut then all you'd have left is an empty bottle.09:58
john_cephalopodaOn the other hand that would be against the German legislation, which states that only 30% air is allowed in the product.09:58
frinnstryuo: s/water/piss09:59
ryuolol09:59
john_cephalopoda(That's why the Smarties bags were once really nice and blown up but now look like deflated beach balls)09:59
frinnstthey actually sell us crap here in sweden. bought a bud and miller just to try out09:59
frinnstcompletely poinless. althoigh miller had some weird taste to it that was kind of fun10:00
frinnstnow, us craft beer is another story. love it to death10:00
ryuoit was weird this last semester of mine. one project team did a desktop application.10:00
ryuothe problem? they don't have any classes about desktop applications anymore.10:01
ryuoso, no one has any experience with desktop UI concepts.10:01
ryuoi think i'm the only one who does.10:01
frinnstthats depressing10:01
ryuoyea, it's all web applications these days.10:02
ryuothey were hard-coding widget placements.10:02
ryuoinstead of using layout widgets, etc, to position sht.10:02
ryuoshit*10:02
ryuoand we're not even in the web development division.10:03
ryuoand i'm probably the only one to have used C.10:05
ryuoC++ they may have used.10:05
john_cephalopodaI once wrote an IDE for GLSL as a university project with a team.10:14
john_cephalopodaI did the UI stuff, some other guy did (copied together) the GLSL stuff.10:14
john_cephalopodaWe used qt. It was pretty nice, the whole UI was made up of resizable widgets.10:15
john_cephalopodaHmmm, for some reason my computer reacts very slowly to commands since I upgraded to 3.4.10:19
ryuon.........o....... p.......r..........o................b....................l.......e..............m...........s............ h.......e...........r.........e.........10:19
ryuolol10:19
john_cephalopodaProbably just some X hickups or something.10:20
ryuoi miss the days when the only difference between other distributions and CRUX was the manner of packaging policies, if anything.10:21
ryuoNow, it's systemd-itis.10:21
john_cephalopodaI don't really get the advantages of systemd.10:25
ryuoWow. Australia recently banned cash transactions over $10k.10:25
ryuohttps://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/08/australia-federal-budget-2018-cash-payment-crackdown-tax-evasion10:25
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ryuoWow.14:16
ryuoNew AMD Ryzen HP Elitebook's are now available for direct order.14:16
workoderaryuo, good thing there is crypto :^)14:22
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ryuohttps://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12102610&cid=5660774815:53
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ryuogTLD .app is now open to registration. i wonder who will own cr.app17:33
frinnstmaybe it can be yours?17:35
ryuofrinnst: it's already taken. lol17:36
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: p5-net-dbus: footprint fix for perl 5.2618:07
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: p5-gtk2-notify: footprint fix for perl 5.26; fix removal '.' from the @INC18:07
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: p5-glib-object-introspection: footprint fix for perl 5.2618:07
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KeksiLeksiHey guys, I've got a question regarding grub installation. I followed the CRUX handbook, and did the grub-install, but forgot to do the grub-mkconfig step. Now my system boots into a grub console, and I don't know how to go through with it. I tried the "set root(hdX,Y), etc" trick, but it failed. Can I make it boot from the console or do I have to chroot the installation from the disk? Thanks :)18:14
KeksiLeksimind that it's not a rescue console, but the "regular" one, so to speak18:15
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frinnstKeksiLeksi: yeah you can, but it will be easier and faster to just boot the install media, mount your install, run "setup-chroot" and run grub-mkconfig there18:36
frinnstgrub-mkconfig likes its kernels to be /boo/vmlinuz-<something> or it won't generate an entry for it18:36
jaegerMaybe I should just modify it so that vmlinuz is also valid18:39
frinnst+118:39
frinnstACTION always use "make modules_install install"18:39
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joacimalso vmlinuz.old18:40
jaegerthough note that make install runs lilo18:40
joacimi always remove lilo on efi systems anyways18:40
jaegersame, no use for it there18:40
frinnstsame here18:41
jaegerhowever, one a BIOS system with lilo installed, 'make install' could be a surprise when you're expecting grub :D18:42
joacimi miss lilo tho. is a lot easier to work with than grub218:43
joacimfeels like everythings getting more complicated to use18:43
jaegerYou could always try elilo or syslinux18:44
jaegerI believe elilo is abandoned but still works18:44
joacimyeah i could give syslinux a try18:44
joacimi rather not use abandoned software18:44
jaegerI had no luck with syslinux and uefi last time I tried it but that was some time ago, so if you do use it and it works well, please let me know. That section of the UEFI wiki page is lacking18:44
frinnstthe default lilo config cant really do anything so it *should* be safe on a new system18:45
jaegertrue18:46
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KeksiLeksifrinnst: Thanks for the tip! I'll do that, then. Can't wait to boot into GUI to play with CRUX some more. Cheers :)18:50
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ryuofrinnst: maybe CRUX should start offering official ports to ease kernel management?20:58
ryuofrinnst: can accept a distro default config or a system specific one.20:59
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brian|lfssomeone modified lynx lol21:44
brian|lfsI agree ryuo21:45
brian|lfsa prebuilt kernel config with everything enabled and an initrd would be nice21:46
brian|lfssave getting a system booting and installing the rest of your system21:46
ryuoi find it tiresome configuring system specific ones.21:51
ryuothere's not much benefit in my experience.21:51
ryuoat least for x8621:51
john_cephalopodaWell, I don't have to include every single module that my system might or might not need anytime.21:52
joacima lot of people ask about kernel issues too21:52
joacimi think there is an included config21:52
joacimbut i dont know how big it is21:52
jaegerI've considered it int he paste, wouldn't be too tough21:52
jaegerin the past21:52
ryuoyes, but it's very minimal.21:52
jaegerdamn, fingers21:52
john_cephalopodaUSB midi, HD audio, Wacom support, Atheros 9k support, webcam support and nouveau driver aren't that hard to remember.21:52
john_cephalopodaAnd when something new appears I will see it when configuring the kernel.21:53
joacimyeah but a lot of beginners have issues getting all of that right21:53
ryuoi'm not saying people will be forced to use it john_cephalopoda, but it would be rather helpful for some of us.21:53
john_cephalopodaBeginners shouldn't use Crux. :รพ21:53
john_cephalopodaHmm, wasn't there "make allyesconfig"?21:54
ryuofor example, it could allow kernel upgrades to be part of port system upgrades.21:54
brian|lfsbeginners is the wrong woord to use21:54
brian|lfsjust a kernel to get a dam system up then after you getr the rest of crux working go back and configure a kernel21:54
ryuoi was thinking the latest LTS kernel series would be a good candidate for such a package.21:54
brian|lfsexactly21:55
ryuonot much to maintain on CRUX's end.21:55
ryuoa decent choice for people that don't want to tinker with their kernel.21:55
brian|lfsmaybe add a choice to the install use pre-built kernel or configure your own21:55
john_cephalopodaIt could be configured to use config.gz to oldconfig the kernel and put the new config.gz up.21:55
ryuoi suppose. it would fallback to some distro default if no such config exists.21:56
ryuoi used to maintain kernel packages for Frugalware.21:56
john_cephalopodaExactly. Ship it with a default, use that if it doesn't exist.21:56
brian|lfsbut yes in 2018 compiling your own kernel don't help on modern hardware21:56
jaegerThere's some of that already in place, if you hadn't already noticed21:57
ryuojaeger: for the ISO?21:57
jaegerThe setup process installs a generic config that gets you at least part of the way there21:57
joacimolddefconfig > oldconfig21:57
jaegerIt certainly doesn't have everything but it's enough to boot on a LOT of hardware without modification21:57
ryuofair enough.21:57
ryuoi was aiming for something that would provide a better OOB experience.21:58
ryuoyet still fits withn what CRUX is.21:58
brian|lfsI know my motherboard wouldn't boot witht he CRUX iso when I got it21:58
jaegerThat's not to say that offering some more comprehensive config in a package is a bad idea, just that something DOES exist that allows you to get a working, if limited, config without thinking too hard21:58
brian|lfstu9rned out that the intel drivers were not new enough in the kernel on the ISO at the time21:58
ryuothough i don't currently run CRUX outside a container or VM, i'd like to help improve some weak spots.21:58
ryuowe need to support our systemd alternatives.21:59
john_cephalopodaI use CRUX on all my computers.21:59
brian|lfswhats systemd21:59
ryuolol21:59
ryuobrian|lfs: the most successful Linux virus ever written21:59
brian|lfsohihhh22:00
brian|lfswhats the cure22:00
ryuobrian|lfs: don't install it.22:00
ryuoLOL22:00
brian|lfsnot to start a lfame war but I like systemd like 2 or 3 years ago22:00
brian|lfsthen overtime realzied its pointless22:00
john_cephalopodaWhy don't we just use emacs as init?22:00
john_cephalopodaIt can everything that systemd can.22:01
ryuolol22:01
brian|lfsI don't even know how to use emacs22:01
john_cephalopodaAnd it has a decent text editor.22:01
john_cephalopodaAnd can emulate vim.22:01
ryuolmao22:01
ryuoeither way i want to help CRUX out more.22:01
brian|lfsbut yes arch has systemd never had an issue with it on arch22:01
john_cephalopodabrian|lfs: Me neither, but you press Alt-x and then enter any command and it will do it.22:01
ryuoi was a user in the past if anyone remembers that far.22:01
ryuothink it was 2006.22:02
brian|lfsI wasn't alive yet22:02
brian|lfslol22:02
ryuobrian|lfs: you're joking, right?22:02
brian|lfsI"m realy advanced I'm 1222:02
ryuothat wasn't that long ago.22:02
ryuoRight...22:02
brian|lfsyes I'm joking22:02
ryuoi'm still planning a project to redesign pkgutils...22:03
ryuomostly want a library that can be bound from languages like Perl.22:03
ryuowhile retaining compatibility with existing behavior, etc.22:03
john_cephalopodabrian|lfs: Didn't have any problems back when I used arch (until 2 years ago or so). But I had quite a confused evening, trying to answer somebody's question about where /tmp is coming from on Fedora, until I found out that it's not done via fstab (like everything else on Fedora), but uses a specific unit file and systemd.22:03
ryuoi may end up writing a C++ library with a C wrapper.22:04
john_cephalopodaprt-get is quite complex. I wonder if it couldn't be done in an easier way.22:05
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: maybe it can. not sure. i just know having more librarized tools could open up new opportunities.22:05
john_cephalopoda(Tried to add a prt-get depupdate once, I gave up because things were too confusing and all functions kept calling each other)22:05
ryuoi need to dig into pkgutils to get an idea of what it all does.22:06
ryuosome of it is just shell scripts.22:06
brian|lfssounds like a good iudea but getting a headachye22:06
ryuoi do know i would have used a library in revdep if it was available.22:06
ryuoi had to invent my own database loader.22:06
ryuoi was kinda mad about that but w/e.22:07
ryuoformat wasn't overly complicated.22:07
ryuojust felt wasteful.22:07
john_cephalopodaOh, always thought that pkgadd was a script.22:07
ryuoit's not.22:07
ryuoit's a C++ program.22:08
ryuoone thing i need to decide is whether a C library or C++ library is a better choice.22:08
ryuoC++ can save a lot of time due to the STL, but at the same time it's a nightmare with the language complexity.22:09
ryuoi expect to ship a shared library, static library, and static binaries.22:09
ryuoC library has the fewest complexities...22:10
ryuoi used to have to hack frugalware's libpacman...22:10
ryuoso i kinda know what a PM library should look like.22:10
ryuothough i only intend to replicate existing features in a library package.22:11
john_cephalopodaWhat about making it a shell script?22:13
john_cephalopodaFrom what I see it only has to check if the archived files already exist and then has to untar the archive to the specified root.22:13
john_cephalopodaActually22:14
john_cephalopodaIt could just take the .footprint and check it.22:15
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: the goal was to make it accessible from other languages. shell wouldn't be an improvement over the current situation.22:22
ryuobesides, i suspect it makes use of APIs that you can't use from shell.22:23
ryuolet's see....22:23
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ryuoguess i'll look later.22:27
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joacimbeen doing good about crux upgrades lately23:37
joacimbeen a while since i last forgot to rejmerge the files in /etc/ports23:38
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