IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2018-06-03

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frinnstoh joy! sun is coming up and the seagulls are screaming their heads off01:06
abenzfrinnst: live near the sea?01:20
abenzI hear crows.. i think seagulls are more pleasant?01:21
DaViruzseagulls are not pleasant at all01:24
DaViruzthey are very loud01:24
DaViruzthis place is infested with them01:25
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ryuofrinnst: California? Or some other place near the sea?02:57
joacimthinking about it. i havent heard any at all recently03:11
joacimi guess frinnst has better trash03:11
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jaegerugh, my ryzen 7 still locks up now and then03:57
jaegerhow do microcode updates work from the OS side on ryzen? I read something about AMD microcode being in linux-firmware but I haven't looked into it yet03:58
jaegerI wonder if there's a microcode update available that's not in the BIOS updates yet03:58
joacimhate it when computers crash04:50
joacimor even just software04:50
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frinnstryuo: sweden on the east coast08:07
frinnstjaeger: really? what motherboard did you get - i forget08:08
frinnstmine is rock solid08:08
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rmullI guess we're all headed to gitlab then?13:20
Anselmothat might be nicer, anyway13:24
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jaegerfrinnst: It's an ASRock AB350 ITX/ac14:05
joacimthought you had one by biostar14:06
frinnstI had troubles with running my ram at the specified speed for a long time but not since a few releases ago14:07
frinnstrock. solid.14:07
ryuofrinnst: As solid as an ASRock? :P14:09
frinnstno a lot more from what i read :)14:10
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joacimmy taichi is pretty decent. for me at least14:11
jaegerjoacim: I have two ryzen systems, both ITX, the other one has the biostar board14:18
jaegerI've never had problems with other asrock boards, it's this system only... and I suspect it's the CPU more than anything else since they had such a bad launch14:18
AnselmoI have an asrock board, who has sometimes spontaneously powered off, but I am pretty sure that was a powesupply issue14:19
joacimyou have too many computers14:19
joacimi lose track14:19
jaegerI build and sell them fairly often... I want to sell the ryzen 3 system14:20
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jaegerLooks like there is a newer BIOS than I have, will try it14:21
joacimi never figured out if i bricked my board, or if it bricked itself14:21
joacimsince it was so unstable before i upgraded the firmware14:22
jaegerdoh, that sucks14:22
ryuojoacim: bricked? what was it?14:23
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ryuojoacim: i once rescued a system by an undocumented bios flash method.14:24
ryuoI formatted a USB flash drive as FAT16 or so, put a BIOS file in it, and it read the new BIOS from that.14:25
ryuoIt had to be named something specific.14:25
joacimthe board has a built in rescue mode, but trying to use it, but nothing happened when i tried to use it14:25
joacimnothing happened as in nothing14:25
ryuoI think it was an AMI feature.14:25
joacimactually, i do remember it would beep once in a while14:25
ryuoIt musta been trying to send an SOS in morse code.14:26
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jaegerafter all these updates, it still won't boot with the RAM set to its full speed :P14:39
joacimdue to all the issues i saw with ram, i went straight for those ryzen specific modules14:49
joacimalways been rock solid14:50
jaegerI'm considering doing that too14:51
joacimgot the memory from my ryzen system left over still.14:51
joacimwant another one so i can put it in my threadripper system14:51
joacimbut RAM is so expensive14:51
joacimeven more now than it was last year when i bought them14:52
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Manoazen have improved memory problems in the new version of chipset from the 400 series14:55
Manoabut this chipset likes the new zen from the 2000 series14:55
Manoabut this is funny: the purpose was to maintain the AM4 socket for long time but in the end new versions come out to fix earlier problems, so mutch for being unlike intel xD14:56
jaegerHrmm, it'll boot at 3066MHz, wonder if it's stable14:56
jaegerManoa: well, they're still ahead of intel in not replacing the socket entirely14:56
jaegerit's still AM414:56
Manoayhe it the true14:57
joacimintel also has this thing about keeping the socket, but still be incompatible14:57
joacimcan't simply get an 8700k if you already have a 6600k14:57
Manoalike 1055 and 1051 xD14:58
ManoaI like about zen is 16 cores for 1000$14:58
joacimi would assume memory compatibility improves by just dropping in a new cpu. since the memory controller is on the cpu14:58
Manoawhat I don't like ? security processor, I buyed 3 phenom 2 mobos a cuple weeks ago because they are not infected with this privacy/security virus :x14:59
Manoait should be like that, yhe15:00
Manoabut jaeger don't worry about memory, the memory/cache architecture of the zen is bad on the inside, performance improves yes but to really get a big boost you need the processor from 2000 series15:01
Manoain the 2000 series they improved the cache/memory architecture15:01
Manoa10 ns faster latency to L3 cache15:02
jaegerI just want it to be stable at a decent speed, not super picky. If it's stable at 3066 I'll run it there, don't HAVE to have 320015:02
joacimi like to get what i pay for15:03
jaegerAnd so far I haven't felt like replacing it with a 2000 series. May have to in the end, we shall see15:03
joacimbut, amd never claimed anything faster than 2666, so anything above that would be an overclock15:03
jaegerwith ddr4, anything above 2133 is an overclock15:03
joacimmy kit has a base spd profile at 2400 =)15:04
ManoaI have no problem with that, but it may require you to change ram timings and this could be dangerous, I burned a mobo from changing memory timings :x15:04
ryuohas anyone ever seen a DDR4 1866 module?15:04
jaegeryeah, not uncommon but technically overclocked15:04
jaegerryuo: not I15:04
jaegerI can underclock mine to that but I don't see any use :)15:04
joacimi like gskill for doing that tho. they list tested speeds, and what the base spd profile is15:04
Manoait's not so surprising that there is many problems with AM4, it completely new thing and unfortunately unpolished15:05
Manoabut I expect them to fix all the problem in zen 215:06
joacimpeople are complaining about hwo hot their room gets with amd processors and graphics cards15:07
joacimi've been running john the ripper for almost an entire day15:07
joacimand playing games at the same time15:07
joacimstill chilly :(15:07
Manoayhe by the way guys, silicon is almost dead: 7 nm take alredy 6 years, whay they don't leave themselfs from it (intel/amd/nvidea...) and go to carbon nanotubes I don't know :x15:07
joacimi like that an almost 10 year old i5 or i7 is still good enough for a lot of current tasks =)15:08
Manoacarbon nanotubes can 100,000 mhz !15:08
joacimcan't say the same about a 386 in 199915:08
Manoai5 ? lel I only a few months ago replaced my core 2 duo xD15:09
joacimimpressive =)15:09
joacimi had my c2d system for 8 years before i got my i515:09
joacimused it for another 2 years as a server15:09
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Manoajohn the riper ? you are security expert ?15:10
joacimno. just trying to figure out the password on these zip files15:11
joacimwithout asking for it =)15:11
Manoait probably some web site address :)15:11
Manoayou mybe can narrow it to lowercase letters and dots :)15:12
joacimsome scanlated japanese comics. the group that did the translation insist on password protected zip files for some reason15:12
Manoayhe my core 2 duo worked for 8 years, arch linux server15:13
Manoaand it was nothing special, just some crap gigabyte mobo15:13
joacimi ran mine on a lower tier one from asus. they even released a bios upgrade that supports the later quad cores15:14
Manoathe true is ? most of the damage to hardware that I have is from me messing with it lel xD not from heat or wear15:14
joacimnot bad for a platform that supports everything from pentium 4 and c2q15:14
ManoaI would affraid to run quad on lower tier15:15
joacimi guess intel will never do the same mistake again. more money selling another chipset license with their cpu15:15
joacimi would be careful and get the lower wattage ones15:16
Manoaintel loosing this days, that's the good news, but they don't wanne look like they are loosing so they don't reduce the prices15:16
joacimeven while getting curbstomped by athlon xp and athlon 64, they were kinda expensive15:16
Manoawhay suddenly intel have 6 cores on desktop ? and 1 MB of L2 cache ? they know they loosing :)15:17
Manoabut you know what ? I don't wanne amerika cpu anymore, too mutch infection from management engines stilling my sole15:18
ManoaI wait until some other company make x86, like VIA15:18
Manoaand for now I use phenom 215:18
Manoathe PRISM from 2007 is in effect, it a law they passed to apy on everyone in the world15:19
Manoato spy15:19
Manoayhe btw, in 2007 when there was war between athlon and intel, AMD was winning - but they take many money for it like the FX 55 - so neither company is "good" company15:20
Manoaif they can stilling your money, they will, AMD or intel is just a name xD15:21
jaegerThey're not stealing your money if you give it to them15:26
joacim13.4C =)15:27
Manoajaeger when intel make skylake, they had no improvement AT ALL in the cpu - all the performance is from the DDR4 memory - is that is not stealing I don't know what is15:29
jaegerYou aren't forced to buy one15:29
Manoano of corse not :)15:30
joacimthere is a cheaper single socket talos II system in the making15:36
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frinnsthas anything really significant happened since sandybridge on intel?17:07
frinnstother than tweaks etc17:07
pedjajoacim, 'cheaper' as in less than 10k $ for it :) ?17:17
joacimonly 1500 USD or so =)17:18
joacimi dont remember the price exactly17:18
joacimfrinnst: they've added built in drm features, that something like netflix requires =)17:18
joacimonly for 4k video tho. and im not sure if it is requires for all 4k video on all platforms17:19
pedjaI was surprised to see that there are Power8/9 installers for Anaconda17:24
john_cephalopodaDRM is so useless.17:36
john_cephalopodaIf you want to just enjoy the movie you paid for, your device must do extra work and might give you issues. You can't watch some stuff without proprietary components in your browser any more.17:37
john_cephalopodaIf you want to record and resell the movie, there are many relatively easy ways to easily get the video and audio out there, which are a pain to do for legitimate watchers but ok if you can make a lot of money with it.17:38
john_cephalopodaSame for DVD copy protection. Disney DVDs are pretty difficult to play back on Linux correctly. Within one hour their copy protection is circumvented, which just makes me wonder why I paid a dozen bucks for the DVD, paying for a copy protection that stands in my way.17:40
john_cephalopodaAnd of course they all use Content Scrambling System, which takes a minute to crack.17:41
john_cephalopodaStuff like that really ruins a fun movie evening with a LEGALLY BOUGHT DVD.17:42
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pedjaDRM is made for media company shareholders. consumers suffer? they don't give a duck17:48
john_cephalopodaYeah, it's a buzzword.17:48
pedjawell, if consumers find DRM annoying, why don't they vote with their wallets and stop buying DRM-ridden shit?17:54
pedjavast majority of them just don't care. they'll bitch and grumble about it, and still give them their money17:56
joacimdont really think it does anything to stop piracy17:58
joacimits nothing but a huge inconvenience for those that paid for the product17:58
pedjathe goal of it is not to stop piracy17:59
pedjabut to stop the shareholders from suing the hell of the company for not protecting their investment :)18:00
pedjaMozilla got a lot of heat when they included that DRM thingie in Firefox18:02
pedja'it's useless/evil'. true, but 'common' people just want to watch Netflix, they don't care18:04
pedjaand if they can't watch it with Firefox, they'll switch to Chrome or whatever18:05
pedjaMozilla did some stupid shit, but for this I can kind of understand the reasoning behind18:06
jaeger'annoying' is key there... it is annoying but doesn't fully stop you from watching stuff18:09
pedjastill better then drm in games, I hear18:11
pedjaI heard horror stories of drm systems fighting on a Windows system making the all games unplayable18:13
pedjawhich, if true, is...fascinating18:13
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john_cephalopodaMost people still use Windows, which has all that fancy CSS key stuff licensed and in the player already. Normal users don't have to care about it at all.18:42
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joacimsome single player games drop you out of the game when your internet connection drops19:50
joacimhad that happen to me a few times19:50
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: elfutils: removed in favor of core/elfutils20:23
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john_cephalopodajoacim: Yeah, that's what games are like today. Always-online. People complain, people buy Cities:Skylines instead. Nothing changes.22:51
joacimgog seems to be doing ok tho22:54
joacimi buy most of my games there these dyas22:54
joacimbut i dont really know of anyone else that uses that store22:55
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jaegerI buy from them sometimes23:49

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