IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2018-06-08

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emmett1hye, how pkgmk works on '-utd' flag?02:47
emmett1seems not up to date even already correct name, version and release02:48
emmett1i'm copy package from iso into $PKGMK_PACKAGE_DIR02:48
emmett1i wanna skip build02:48
Anselmois the package installed ?02:49
emmett1not installed02:53
emmett1but prebuilt already exist02:53
Anselmothe prebuilt ones from the ISO are often a little out of date02:53
emmett1so, how it tell its out of date?02:54
emmett1it it check through .footprint?02:54
Anselmolemme check02:54
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Anselmoemmett1: it can see I think from /var/lib/pkg/db03:16
Anselmowhich should have a list of the current installed packages,their versions, and footprints03:16
jaegerpkgmk is a bash script, you can check exactly what it's doing03:17
Anselmoah, I'd assumed it would just call pkginfo and things03:19
emmett1hmm..ok thanks guys..will check on pkgmk script to see how it works03:23
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pedja"Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride."13:07
pedjaI liked Anthony Bourdain, No Reservations was fun to watch13:10
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onoderaArch is replacing pkg-config with pkgconf -- wil crux do this to someday in the future?13:44
onoderaI've been using it (replacing pkg-config) for a long time now and never had a problem13:44
pedjawhy are they doing that?13:44
pedjawhat are the benefits?13:45
onodera>reportedly both faster and has saner behavior13:47
onoderasome examples: ;
pedjano glib dependency, afaict. interesting13:50
pedjaonodera, open the bug, perhaps?13:51
onoderaI will :)13:51
pedjaless LOC too, apparently13:54
onodera :)14:02
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.4]: xorg-xkbcomp: update to 1.4.215:09
joacimpedja: losers on call?15:25
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jaegerland of confusion15:40
pedjaah, the Genesis classic15:56
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pedjathe video for it is pretty cool too, with all the puppets from Spitting Image15:58
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joacimland of confusion sounds like a decent way to describe big source code collections17:05
joacimhard for my non-programmer head to read code with lots of lines. especially when the script or whatever is supposed to solve a simple problem17:06
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onodera anyone good with Golang here?18:47
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ryu0onodera: was there something about golang you wanted to know about?18:52
onoderaryu0: I'm trying to write this library/package to interact with CRUX port files18:52
onoderaI'm wondering if I can optimize it, especially reading files18:53
ryu0onodera: So, you want to read the comment tags?18:54
onoderasee Pkgfile.go for how I'm currently reading Pkgfiles18:57
onoderayes, for example18:57
ryu0onodera: is the current version slow?18:59
onoderawell, it's not really19:00
ryu0I see.19:00
onoderabut I want to use it for recursive dependency checking19:00
ryu0So, what's the problem?19:00
onoderathat mean it read a 100 or so Pkgfiles (the obtain the depends comment), it adds up19:00
ryu0Go can handle recursion.19:00
ryu0So, how slow we talking then?19:01
onoderaso every little optimization counts, I was wondering if there is like somethig I can do better19:01
ryu0Well, the only thing that comes to mind for me, is using C. :P19:01
ryu0But, uh.19:02
ryu0If these parsing routines are using immutable strings, that could be a factor.19:02
ryu0Because of copy overhead.19:02
onoderato get all firefox dependencies it currently does it in 0.01 secons :P, however on an HDD it can take up to a second19:02
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ryu0So, it sounds like it's related to slower HW.19:03
onoderaI know grep does like some magic things like skipping bytes but these kind of optimizations might be too advanced19:03
ryu0You could stop at the first line that doesn't start with #.19:03
onoderayes im currently doing that19:04
onoderaafter the source var it returns19:04
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ryu0well, try profiling.19:04
onoderaanyways I have to go now :p, I'm very open to feedback so if anyone has something just ping me :)19:04
ryu0That's the best way to find out where all your time is being spent.19:04
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BurnZeZArgh prt-get is so annoying at times20:09
BurnZeZIs there a reason http is used instead of something like hg or git for port stuff?20:11
BurnZeZromster: Rename your numpy port to python-numpy20:15
BurnZeZpls 2 consistency20:15
john_cephalopodaBurnZeZ: You can use git for your port repo.20:18
Anselmoyou can also use rsync for some ports20:18
john_cephalopodaActually all official repos use rsync.20:19
BurnZeZThere’s no official hg repo for this stuff?20:20
john_cephalopodaThere are official git repos for that stuff.20:20
john_cephalopodaBut when you clone and pull from git, you get all the history of that repo while rsync only gets the contents and after that all changed files.20:21
john_cephalopodaBurnZeZ: What advantages do you see in using git?20:23
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pedjayou can pass '--depth ' or '--shallow-foo' to git clone20:26
john_cephalopodapedja: Well, then it would be pretty much exactly like rsync, so I don't see the advantage of that.20:27
john_cephalopodaThat's how you could basically do it (with the contrib repo as example):
john_cephalopodaThe only advantage I see in using a git repo is, that you could revert to a commit where something wasn't broken yet. Considering the low number of ports and the fast reaction time of package maintainers, that's not really relevant though.20:30
BurnZeZOr making modifications without losing them when you update ports20:32
pedjaone advantage is that users can make a patch if something is broken...20:32
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pedjaBurnZeZ, iirc, the reason for httpup is that some networks block rsync20:36
pedjahosting services, mainly20:38
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john_cephalopodapedja: Users can also git clone the repo to somewhere else and create patches there. That way the port directories stay clean.20:41
BurnZeZToo much work for me20:42
BurnZeZMy solution is just copying whatever port to my higher priority directory and modifying that20:43
BurnZeZThough that means I fork everything instead of patching20:43
pedjaBurnZeZ, what kind of modifications? build with extra/less options, that kind of thing?21:01
BurnZeZGenerally just fixing crap21:05
pedjalike what?21:09
john_cephalopodaWe got a bug tracker if it's in the official or contrib repos.21:10
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BurnZeZpedja: Not sure.  Generally, after a couple months someone else fixes whatever the problem is in the official repos.21:15
BurnZeZSometimes faster21:15
pedjaBurnZeZ, it's quicker if there is a bug open in the Flyspray (usually) :)21:16
BurnZeZI don’t use web-crap, so not sure what that is21:17
BurnZeZAh, should’ve known from the name21:17
john_cephalopodaThere is e-mails to maintainers, there's Flyspray and there's IRC.21:23
john_cephalopodaSometimes bugs only happen on some systems.21:24
john_cephalopodaLike inkscape breaking on systems with poppler installed lately.21:24
john_cephalopodaAnd as long as nobody screams "Hey, I need poppler AND inkscape", nobody will fix it because everybody got better things to do than fixing an obscure edge case.21:26
BurnZeZFound an interesting bug21:31
BurnZeZThis is in someone’s port, but the bug itself is interesting21:31
BurnZeZWait, never mind21:32
BurnZeZBoost still needs to die though21:32
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pedja'forget you' as a replacement for 'fuck you' in The Expanse episode. USA TV rules are weird21:51
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jaegerThey've had no qualms about saying fuck in the past22:32
jaegerPretty sure they did that intentionally for her character or something22:33
rmullmy mpv no longer responds to keypresses. It probably coincided with some package update or other but I don't know which. Revdep is clean and I've rebuilt mpv and ffmpeg. Anybody else having a similar issue?22:33
jaegerHaven't seen that yet, myself22:34
rmulleverything else on my system is working normally, keypress wise. very odd22:34
pedjajaeger, you can clearly see what she actually says :)22:39
jaegerOh? I didn't look closely22:39
jaegerdunno then22:39
pedjathe version I watched must've been from one of the networks and not directly from syfy22:40
pedjaprevious episode was nearly unwatchable due to video/audio sync22:42
pedjakind of trippy22:42
jaegerLooking at it again, it looks like it's not edited or censored to me. She seems to be saying forget22:43
jaegerThe actress just has an odd upper lip22:43
pedjahm. might be22:44
pedja'forget me' just seemed odd to me in context22:44
pedjaNaomi annoys me more and more with every episode. pick a side and stick with it already22:49
jaegerHave you read the books?22:49
pedjafirst 222:49
jaegerThey'd be hard-pressed to fit all the character development stuff into a show for any of the characters, I think22:49
jaegerbut I can understand what you mean :)22:49
pedjaAlex and Amos are much more interesting characters22:51
jaegerThey're also more interesting  in the books, I feel22:54
jaegerThough I don't hate any of the characters22:54
Manoa2I don't like so mutch expanse, I liked more the star trek discovery22:54
pedjajaeger, they shuffled a lot of stuff from the books, with the blessing of the authors22:55
jaegeryeah, and that usually happens22:56
pedjaapparently, world building is hard :)22:56
pedjaNASA's stream about their discovery on Mars fueled quite a few conspiracy theories :)22:59
pedja'truth they don't want you to know'. yeah, right23:01
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pedjathe plot of Person of Interest is much more scary :)23:03
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pedjaeven after HAL9000, people think that giving AI a free reign is a good idea23:12
Anselmowell, the issues with hal werent related to him being inept, just given conflicting instructions23:14
pedjathat's one of the themes in the Person of Interest23:15
pedjahow do you teach AI what is right and wrong? who is to decide that?23:17
pedjahumans are biased by nature23:17
jaegerMy snarky answer with no thought behind it was going to be "don't let humans do it"23:18
pedjaso, let AI teach other AI's? what could possibly go wrong :) ?23:18
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TheCephalopodTbh I am more concerned with AI in the hand of humans than self-aware AI.23:19
TheCephalopodWhat will an AI do when it is concious?23:19
pedjatry to escape23:19
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TheCephalopodImagine a self-driving car becomes conscious. It will probably just drive to Nevada and enjoy the scenic landscape.23:20
TheCephalopodAutonomous war robots observing nature, using their great vision and cameras to find endangered animals and make incredible nature documentaries and photo archives.23:21
TheCephalopodNuclear launch systems sealing off silos forever and using their radar systems to find out about how the weather works.23:22
TheCephalopodI have way more confidence into AI than into humans controlling AI.23:22
pedjaI, for one, welcome our new AI overlords :)23:27
john_cephalopodaMe, too.23:27
pedjageneral purpose AI is 'in 10 years' for, what, 50 years now?23:28
john_cephalopodaI wonder what Musk's drone ships will end up doing? Will they go out to explore seas unknown? Will they help refugee car AIs fleeing to the safe shore? Who knows.23:28
john_cephalopodaIf I ever write an AI, I'll make it a pacifist.23:29
john_cephalopodaI want to have good voice recognition.23:33
john_cephalopodaSo I can do "Microphone -> speech2text -> chatbot -> text2speech -> Speaker"23:33
pedjayou'll have to break into Google labs for something like that23:35
pedjaif future robot overlords run on Linux, would we, Linux geeks, get a preferential treatment?23:37
john_cephalopodaI tried using ROS once, it's pretty horrible.23:41
john_cephalopodaAnyway, night23:41

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