IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2018-06-12

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frinnsthttps://www.preining.info/blog/2018/06/microsofts-failed-attempt-on-debian-packaging/10:16
frinnstlooks like something a web developer would do10:16
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pedjaI don't understand the thought process behind this10:44
pedjaif you want bash, require bash.10:45
pedjait's not sh at every distribution, but it is *there* on (almost) every distribution10:46
pedjaor, idk, contact the Debian/whatever packagers, someone has to have a few spare cycles to help10:51
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joacimseems silly to make scripts that point to sh when your script requires bash11:05
joacimsimply changing the shebang seems easier than making changes to the system11:05
pedjaexactly11:06
ryuojoacim: i expect nothing less from Microsoft. they don't seem to respect user's systems.11:21
pedjais Windows 10 *that* bad :) ?11:26
pedjaI know that it likes to break wifi on my sister's laptop every other update, but that's about the extent of my usage of it11:28
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ryuopedja: much worse... they arbitrarily choose to uninstall software you've chosne to instlla yourself.11:46
pedjawth11:46
ryuobrb11:47
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pedjasome people seem to think that Windows breakage and general brain damage will push users to Linux. not gonna happen, on large-ish scale anyway11:53
workoderaand im happy about that12:40
workoderaI dont want something that caters to non technical people12:41
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pedjato 'non technical' people Windows is as magical and black box-like as Linux would be13:57
pedjaand smoothing Linux rough edges would be beneficial even to hardcore users :)13:59
john_cephalopodaTo me, Windows is a magical and black box-like thing while Linux is pretty easy to understand.14:01
john_cephalopodaLinux has some rough edges, but it doesn't try to hide anything.14:01
lorddrijenjohn_cephalopoda: i agree14:22
lorddrijenwindows drives me mad with its menus14:23
john_cephalopodaI used Windows 10 in University a few times. Mistyped my git password and it was saved. Took me some minutes to find out where the Credentials Manager is located.14:24
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john_cephalopodaIt also took me years to figure out that the file extension doesn't matter. Grew up with Windows and it acts like it's a big deal what the file extension is.14:30
john_cephalopodaAt some point I realized that .cpp files are also readable when I rename them to .txt. I was ~14 when I found that out.14:30
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: it does only to the extent that it help identifies file type, but nothing else.14:33
john_cephalopodaryuo: Yeah, but it doesn't tell you that. It even warns you that changing the extension might make the file unusable.14:36
ryuoyea... for dumb people, it effectively does that.14:37
ryuonothing about windows really makes sense if you actually know what you're doing.14:37
joacimpedja: its great after a windows update, you're greeted by a html file on your desktop with a list of shti MS uninstalled for you15:03
joacimat least they tell you so you can reinstall it15:03
joacimbut still. windows 10 is a horrible system to maintain i think15:03
pedjajoacim, is there any official reasoning behind that?15:05
pedjaor is it not so gentle push to use Windows Store thingie : ?15:05
pedjaI wonder if apps installed using Chocolatey are affected15:07
joacimidk. had so many customers were shit just disappeared from their computers15:07
pedjaapparently, it's an old issue. after update to a new build, apps are missing, settings are reset, etc15:13
john_cephalopodaStill better than Apple's iTunes, which wiped the only copy of some high-quality masters of songs from the computer of some guy and replaced the songs with mp3 versions.15:13
Anselmoc_c15:15
pedja'the only copy' <-- I think I see the problem15:16
joacimon my system. they randomly add the norwegian language pack, and makes it the default setting15:17
joacimi specifically installed an english copy of windows15:17
joacimand simply made some changes to number formats and keyboard layout15:17
joacimalways made sure the norwegian langauge was not in any kind of list15:17
joacimstill, i have to switch back to english and remove the option for norwegian every once in a while15:18
pedjalocalized Windows is fun to debug issues on15:18
joacimbest one is localized excel15:19
joacimexcel isnt smart enough to convert decimal points15:19
joacimand the divider in formulas is different between locales15:20
pedjaso switching locales basically breaks the spreadsheet?15:21
john_cephalopodaThis is _so_ bad in the German version of Excel. I am so used to use '.' and Excel throws an error every time I use ','.15:33
pedjawell, from its point of view, it's doing a right thing15:36
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joacimi have to be mindful about formulas that contain ; too15:53
joacimif you use ; or , in formulas depends on what's configured as your decimal point i think15:53
joacimand all formula functions are renamed15:53
joacimor translated15:53
john_cephalopodaWow, I just plugged a controller into my computer. Worked out of the box.15:54
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: when did Linux become Windows?15:54
ryuoo.O15:54
joaciminstead of vlookup, i have to remember it is finn.rad15:54
john_cephalopodaIt's not even a popular controller, it's a Hama Combat Bow.15:55
joacimi dont know if excel has an internal format, so you can open and use documents from users with other locales than yours15:55
pedjaopen, maybe. use? that's a good question16:00
pedjainteresting. when I run file on some xls files I have, part of the output is code page number16:06
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: unbound: update to 1.7.217:32
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: nsd: update to 4.1.2217:32
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: imagemagick: update to 7.0.7-3917:32
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john_cephalopodateK__: opt/gimp should be bumped to 2.10.x https://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=details&task_id=165618:14
john_cephalopoda2.10.2 is the current latest version.18:14
pedjait needs a few more deps18:26
john_cephalopodaThen those should be added to opt, too.18:26
pedjasomeone needs to do the work18:29
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pedjaoh, wait. I already updated my gimp port :)18:34
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nekoseamIs prt-get included by default in 3.4?19:13
jaegeryes, all of core is19:15
john_cephalopodapedja: There's a maintainer for a reason: To do the work ;รพ19:18
nekoseamWhich shell is included by default? (I'm assuming bash)19:19
jaegerbash and dash19:19
Anselmobut everyone is lazy, john_cephalopoda, arent they :P19:21
Anselmoif half of its already done at the least it makes the job easier19:21
jaegerThere's a fine line between lazy and practical :)19:22
john_cephalopodaAnselmo: I'm a port maintainer. I update my ports relatively fast.19:23
john_cephalopodaWhen a bug comes in it will be definitely done in under a week, even if I got little time.19:23
AnselmoI've generally been very satisfied with how fast crux ports are patched and updated, that wasnt meant to poke fun at anyone19:24
Anselmoeverytime I've found an issue in an official port its been fixed within a few hours of when I mention it19:24
john_cephalopodaAnselmo: Yeah, usually it happens quite fast. In this case I reported the updated port one month ago19:26
jaegerIn this case, the maintainer has been busy/away quite a bit19:26
Anselmomm19:28
john_cephalopodaIt's not a big issue for me. I don't really need the new stuff in gimp 2.10. Just wanted to drop it in here, in case the maintainer hasn't read the notification from the bug tracker.19:30
j_vpedja: are your ports available?19:46
pedjagimp related ones?19:46
j_vyeah, was just curious... I wouldn't have time to mess with that for a bit, but gimp has a lot of options that setting up the build pretty interesting, so nice to see what others do with it.19:49
j_voptions that *make* setting up19:50
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pedjaj_v, I don't think I messed with gimp build options that much. the main challenge was its new dependencies (libmypaint/mypaint-brushes)20:08
pedjanot so much building them, but the fact that I had to roll source tarballs for them from git snapshots, since the released source is quite old20:11
pedjarequires some ancient automake version, iirc, which is fixed in git HEAD, but no new releases so far, afaik20:13
Anselmoooh right all of that x-x20:14
j_vAh, ok. Sounds like a bit of a pain. I won't have time to use gimp much for a while or will just stick to the older version if I really need it for now. Thanks for the info though.20:14
AnselmoI ended up patching some of those things' makefiles with just a pile of sedcommands20:14
pedjaj_v, yeah, it was fun :) I expected that upstream would take care of it before the release, but no20:18
pedjastill can't figure out how to build it to use openCL, thou20:18
pedjadarktable picks up and uses opencl just fine20:20
j_vI messed around with openCL a few years back when I was working on a port of blender... I seem to remember it was interesting to get everything right, but the details are fuzzy now. I should have those old port files around, though I'm sure they would need a shovel to dust them off.20:21
j_vI see I have old dusty ports for opencl-headers and opencl-icd-loader... not even sure how relavent they are now.20:23
nekoseamwhat init system does crux use?20:24
j_vsysvinit is init, with bsd style scripts20:27
jaegerAnyone have a working optirun/bumblebee/virtualgl/bbswitch setup on an optimus laptop with crux?20:52
jaegerI've never been able to figure that out20:56
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