IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2018-07-25

frinnst:(00:00
ryuoWhy not turn off the DNS? they're not even giving them any real share.00:01
joacimthis sucks even more than their search results getting pushed all the way to the bottom when i search for slack00:02
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Peco_morning05:36
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Peco_thats unlucky10:16
Peco_reading that almost makes me want to install slackware and donate some money10:19
frinnstis he working full time on slackware I wonder10:25
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.4]: libepoxy:  ->11:24
Romsteroh i forgot my commit message would break.... derp.11:27
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.4]: libeproxy: fixed file permissions on libeproxy due to meson <= 0.46.0. Ignore last commint string and use this one.11:57
joacimalways liked slackware, but the kitchen sink mentality isn't quite my thing11:59
pedjafrinnst, I think so, yes. He mentioned somewhere that the store is his only source of income, iirc.12:17
pedjaaccording to him, he didn't receive any money from them for 2 years.12:20
Romsteri had no idea who or what was/is behind slackware other than i've not seen a new realse from 14.2 in forever.12:20
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pedjathat's the problem with projects that have BDFL at the helm12:27
pedjait'll be interesting to see how Python copes after Guido basically retired12:29
pedjatbh, I can't imagine Linux kernel without Linus12:30
Romsterit just wouldn't be the same without Linus, but yeah i don't know what python will do.12:31
pedjathey have a couple of candidates with big enough community credibility, afaik, but I don't think they'll have another BDFL12:33
Romsterwhat i do know is the team behind setuptools/distutils and then setuptools and pip bootstrapping and then they fixed that later so setuptools doesn't depend on pip is a major royal pain in the behind. (and i wasn't even mentioning appdirs,packaging,pyparsing,six)12:33
pedja:)12:33
Romsterand then in python3 they changed print to be a function so i had to go break out the manual... because the error i got was cryptic.12:35
Romsterso now all the place holders been changed12:36
Peco_i just stumbled onto this https://github.com/onodera-punpun/prt12:36
Peco_hmm12:36
pedjaI converted some python2 to python3 code with 2to3 and some cleanup. granted, it works for trivial-ish stuff12:37
pedjasome people suggested staring work on Python4 :)12:39
pedjastarting*12:40
pedjaclean slate, no backward compatibility12:41
Romsterhave you read the https://golang.org/conduct#our-standards on go it basicly means you can't even roast someone if they do some fucked up code.12:43
Romsterpython4.... that's it12:44
Romsteri think a lot of projects will stay on python2 for awhile yet12:45
pedjait EOL in 202012:46
pedjamost of codes of conduct can be summarised as 'don't be a dick'12:47
Romsteryeah but i think golangs CoC goes to far.12:47
pedjahow so?12:48
Romsteryou can't tell them off you have to be accepting of everyone including anyone that can be annoying, lets see if linux can go on a rant on why something is wrong if he had to go by the golang CoC and not get sued or something?12:49
Romsterthat page i linked doesn't even begin to describe what i actually read12:51
RomsterMy biggest beef with these codes of conduct is that they never seem to distinguish between someone getting their feelings hurt and somebody being the victim of prolonged harassment.12:54
RomsterThe former is a part of life, and I don't think we should be trying to child-proof the world.12:54
Romsternow i can't find the entire list that i originally read, how convenient.12:55
Romsteroh well icna't find the origional one but it had far more in it that i a lot were not so keen on. that thought it would actually hurt progress. now it seems to be gone.13:00
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: libunbound: add missing dependency: expat13:05
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: glib-networking: 2.56.0 -> 2.56.113:05
pedjaRomster, look at adopters :) https://www.contributor-covenant.org/13:14
pedjaidk, people are weird13:23
pedjasome will go to great lengths to find *something* to be offended with13:24
pedjawhich is a waste of energy, imho. 'pick your battles' and all that13:24
pedjaLinus, of LTT, said that one of his videos on Macbook Pro had a gazillion views. Followup to it, with facts and minimal opinion, generated almost no views13:27
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pedjahis theory? people couldn't find anything to be enraged about :)13:28
john_cephalopodaRomster: What do you mean by "roast someone"?13:29
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Romsteri can't find the original document i read that had a ton of comments on.13:34
john_cephalopodaIf somebody is annoying or writes bad code, there are ways to nicely criticize it.13:39
john_cephalopodaYou can just ask them to not do that annoying thing when they are annoying and tell them why the code is bad and how to make it better when they write bad code.13:40
Romsteri wqas more complaining on the CoC being very restrictive and counter productive and it far excced the simple fact of "don't be a dick". but now i can't find anything from way back on it so i give up trying to find it.13:41
john_cephalopodaI think that the restrictiveness comes from people being dicks and then crying around when people are annoyed because their bad behaviour was not covered in the CoC.13:43
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john_cephalopodaI mean, you have to put something into the CoC and you better put in strict rules that you can use to keep out the real dicks without using them on normal folks who get a bit rough, instead of making basically no rules and then having endless discussions about if behaviour X is really not allowed or not.13:45
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.4]: libinput: update to 1.11.314:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: libunbound: update to 1.7.314:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: fuse: silent tarball update by upstream14:16
rmullooh sneaky fuse14:21
Peco_unlucky14:44
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: vulkan ports: Initial import16:49
ryuoRomster: golang's pretty mild compared to the latest FreeBSD CoC.17:56
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ryuoRomster: https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html17:57
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ryuoIt wouldn't surprise me that this crusade to stamp out undesirable behavior has gone too far.18:00
ryuoerr18:00
ryuos/that/f/18:00
ryuos/that/if/18:00
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: nginx: updated to version 1.15.218:26
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john_cephalopodaryuo: Do you know of a case where somebody was thrown out because of a CoC like that?19:11
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: I can't recall any, but there's a good chance that COC issues aren't generally publicilized.20:00
ryuoHm... though...20:01
ryuoNow that you mention it, I do recall reading about an uproar at Drupal.20:01
john_cephalopodaWas it an uproar because somebody was banned for not following the rules or was it an uproar because some people were angry that they couldn't make sexist jokes any more?20:02
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: If I had to guess, the former, but i don't recall the specifics. See here: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/17/03/27/2115233/prominent-drupal-php-developer-kicked-from-the-drupal-project-over-unconventional-sex-life#comments20:02
john_cephalopodaTalking about CoCs, the Linux kernel developer scene seems to be extremely toxic. People have left it already for that reason.20:02
ryuoPretty extreme case here...20:04
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: the main issue I have here is where does the line get drawn for balancing one kind of toxicity against another?20:07
ryuoTaken too far, a CoC shields the toxicity that arises from the people that are perpetually offended.20:07
ryuoNo CoC and you have the general asshole kind of toxicity.20:08
john_cephalopodaI don't know if the "perpetual offence toxicity" actually exists in those quantities.20:08
ryuoEven so, it doesn't take many to have a chilling effect.20:09
ryuoWhen your livelyhood is on the line, you're likely to see people become very reluctant to say or do anything remotely controversial.20:09
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: though I suppose there is a point to them, but it seems like they're overly verbose.20:12
john_cephalopodaryuo: The drupal case is a bit more complicated than "Guy X has weird sexual preferences, gets kicked from the project".20:13
john_cephalopodaPost by the one that was kicked out: https://web.archive.org/web/20170323121303/https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/tmi-outing20:13
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: I imagine it is.20:13
john_cephalopodaReply to that post: https://web.archive.org/web/20170323130216/http://buytaert.net/tag/living-our-values20:13
ryuoeither way, it's the only one I could think of. I don't read about such cases very often.20:14
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ryuojohn_cephalopoda: ... wheres my puke bucket when I need it?20:15
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: though, i recall working on Frugalware and a certain member was a bit of an ass to me in the beginning.20:24
ryuoStill, I plowed through it and became a stronger person because of it, or so I feel.20:24
john_cephalopodaHeh, I worked in a project and some guy was an ass and I ended up quitting because it was too much for me :รพ20:25
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: it stopped after awhile. it wasn't a perpetual thing.20:25
john_cephalopodaThe project was pretty much dead when I joined. I was told that the one who was an ass to me was probably the main reason why it died in the first place.20:26
john_cephalopodaAll in all I think that a CoC can be pretty useful for big projects where there is a lot of publicity and a bigger group of developers that has to work together.20:27
john_cephalopodaHow strict it must be is up for discussion, but setting some standards and telling people to not be a complete dick seems like a good idea.20:28
ryuoI never said it couldn't, but i'm also not a fan of ones that seem to be rather politicized.20:28
ryuoBut, I guess that's the new normal now.20:29
john_cephalopodaProbably depends on the project, the members and the exact code.20:29
ryuoEveryone seems to be viewed as a victim these days.20:29
ryuoArguably I also have reason to consider myself one, but what good does that do me?20:31
Anselmoehh, I feel and hope that that is not the case . . .20:33
Anselmopeople who vocally feel and discuss their victimhood make a bigger scene can easily get more attention20:34
Anselmothat doesnt mean they're a majority20:34
ryuoAnselmo: Me too, but it seems to be something implied by what the media outlets tell people these days.20:37
ryuoShould I consider myself a victim because I'm classified as autistic?20:38
ryuoNo, I don't think so. It's just the hand I was dealt.20:38
pedjaryuo, actually diagnosed as one?20:39
pedjaapologies if that's too personal question20:40
ryuopedja: yes.20:41
ryuoOh, that reminds me. Sometimes I think CoCs are discriminatory towards the autistic due to the nature of their condition.20:44
ryuoBut, what do I know? I'm just someone that was told they had said condition. lol20:45
Peco_I wonder if anyone would be interested in my polybar port.20:52
Peco_i guess i could just put it out there anyways just in case20:52
Anselmowhat is it depicting ?20:53
Peco_you mean me?20:53
Peco_polybar is just a bar like lemombar20:53
ryuoIOW, yet another X11 panel of sorts.20:54
Anselmoooooh I see20:55
pedjayou and your leet, hand crafted, desktops :)20:56
Peco_smh20:57
Peco_it has to look nice20:57
ryuohttps://github.com/frugalware/frugalware-current/commit/9113501f8fd19f26d50c56889c1971a0bb656b1c20:58
ryuoI found the commit that I was thinking of. lol20:58
ryuocrazy went ballistic. he doesn't like lilo. lol20:59
ryuowas a package I had added.20:59
pedjacouple of years ago, i looked thru some job postings for the local steel mill. one of the required skills was 'experience with IBM z/OS' :)21:07
pedjafrinnst, for your collection, perhaps? http://www.csun.io/2018/07/16/custom-mechanical-keyboard.html21:20
Anselmothat's kinda cool looking21:22
Anselmonot sure I'd like it though, . . . x-x21:23
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frinnstdont give me any ideas22:11
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pedjac'mon, you know you want to :)22:27
pedjalooks like an interesting project. well, the machining part, electronics is really not my field *at all*22:34
joacimseems to me the actual circuit for a keyboard is pretty simple22:36
joacimseen people do this with plain wires22:36
joacimyeah looks like this guy did that too22:36
Anselmomostly just like, solder things together in one basic pattern lotsa times :P22:37
joacimlots of controllers around one can use for projects like these i think, so the biggest piece of work is probably the machining22:37
jaegerThat reminds me, I need to check for an update to the firmware on my keyboard, it's repeating enter presses sometimes but I can't see any problems with the stabilizer/switch22:37
joacimi hear cherry mx switches can be a bit like that sometimes22:50
jaegerThese are gaterons, for what that's worth22:50
joacimi guess similar switches can develop similar issues22:51
jaegerprobably22:51
jaegerThough it's the first time I've run into it22:51
jaegerSo I can't complain TOO much22:51
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joacimnot too interested in making my own keyboard, but that looks really sweet22:52
joacimbeen interested for a while in making my own arcade sticks22:52
joacimfor shmups =)22:52
jaegerI converted a cheap xbox 360 controller into a fight stick once, that was a fun project22:53
jaegerhttps://imgur.com/2nAPhvo22:54
jaegerwarning: shit wiring22:54
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Peco_hmm so i got wine running23:57
Peco_but everything i run seems ot randomly crash23:57

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