IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2018-08-08

brian|lfsstupid question I"m trying to remove all packages in a folder00:57
brian|lfsI thought I could use a wild card00:57
joacimyou could cd to the folder01:13
joacimthem prt-get remove *01:13
joacimi think01:13
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jaegeryes, that would work02:25
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jaegerso, random thing - I ordered one of those android car stereos... will be interesting02:59
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abenzjaeger: high end?03:23
abenzlink?03:23
jaegernothing too crazy. atoto a6y pro03:23
jaegersec03:23
jaegerhttps://www.amazon.com/ATOTO-Android-Navigation-Stereo-Bluetooth/dp/B07DDDYM53/ref=sr_1_103:23
abenzlooks nice from pics.. but one can't tell with those units unless you see it03:32
abenzI had one that looked great in pics03:32
abenzbut once you feel it in your hand, the buttons etc. its another story03:32
jaegerI checked out a few reviews before buying but yeah, will see how it looks when I get it03:32
jaegermy car stereo has been having problems lately and they're getting worse, figured it was time for a change03:42
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SiFuhhttps://rtd.rt.com/films/my-crazy-russian-vlog/#anchor_watch_video05:21
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Romsterfiretray is not compatible with thunderbird 60.0 :(10:59
Romsterugh discontinued as well, welp time to look for something else for a tray icon11:00
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ryuohttps://linux.slashdot.org/story/18/08/07/2112209/tcp-flaw-lets-remote-attackers-stall-devices-with-tiny-dos-attack#comments12:59
ryuoSo that's what what those ubuntu kernel patches were for.12:59
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pedja'SegmentSmack'. who comes up with these names?13:37
Romsterhrmm cruxbot isn't here13:45
Romsteri saw this a week ago and updated my kernel but i've not been DoS-ed afaik13:46
frinnstcruxbot is silly15:04
frinnstalso not registered15:04
Anselmoehh, sometimes its nice to just see when things get updated15:05
Anselmoreminds me to rebuild stuff :P15:05
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pedjamy brain is slower than usual today15:46
ryuofrinnst: you could switch to a ban for all non-registered people and add an exception for specific masks.15:47
pedjait took me a while to realise that the reason for man page not showing is because I misspelled the name of the program. thrice.15:47
ryuofrinnst: something like...15:48
ryuofrinnst: /mode +b $~a15:48
ryuofrinnst: /mode +e cruxbot!*@*15:49
ryuofrinnst: i ended up switching some other channels to +q $~a and setting +e for people from known web clients.15:50
ryuobecause the spammers aren't coming from there.15:50
ryuoa temporary measure.15:50
Anselmois the spam still happening ?16:03
AnselmoI'm only in a few freenode channels but its not present in them currently16:03
john_cephalopodaAll the channels where I saw spam have set mode +r.16:05
ryuoYes it is, Anselmo. #learnprogramming has a lot of unregistered visitors.16:07
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pedja'Threadripper1 crushed by Intel i9' https://i.imgur.com/KPE7E0s.jpg16:46
joacimoh no16:46
pedja:)16:47
ryuo...16:47
jaegerhaha, that's a great graph16:47
ryuolmao. who the well made this graph?16:47
ryuohell*16:47
john_cephalopodaWhat's the price difference?16:47
joacimi think thts the entry level i9, so about the same price16:48
joacim10 cores vs. 16 tho16:48
jaeger10 vs 16 matters pretty much not at all in gaming, though16:48
john_cephalopodaBut when running make -j16 ;)16:49
joacimit matters by 1 FPS =)16:50
joacimi think 8 is more than good enough for me tbh16:50
john_cephalopodaI am using 8 and it's fine.16:50
joacimso for me a 1900x or just a plain i7 or ryzen would be g ood enough16:50
john_cephalopodaShould probably get a better GPU though. Maybe an AMD one because I like open drivers.16:51
pedjaI am using 2 and it's...interesting16:51
john_cephalopodaEven my RasPi (with CRUX-ARM) has 8 cores :D16:51
joacimgoing from a c2d to an i5 was a massive upgrade for me16:51
joacimfaster cores, and 4 of them16:51
pedjamy smartphone has 4 :)16:52
joacimmost upgrades from the i5 seems a bit meh to me tho16:52
joacimsince the cores arent that much faster, and i just get more of them instead16:52
john_cephalopodaI went from an Intel Core Duo @ 2.something to an i7, 4th gen, 8 threads @ 3.something.16:53
pedjajaeger, you are playing KSP, right? any difference in performance between your Intel and AMD machines?16:54
john_cephalopodaI'd get an AMD CPU for my next computer but the i7 does the job, so I will use it until it catches fire.16:54
joacimnot sure if i noticed a difference for ksp when i got my ryzen16:54
joacimmy i5 was fine for it. even played it on my old c2d just fine16:54
pedjaits physics engine thingie is a CPU hog16:55
joacimi couldnt run the massive launch stages that people sometimes make16:55
john_cephalopodaSeriously, those giant things aren't really worth the trouble.16:56
john_cephalopodaJust use modular designs, couple them in space, done.16:56
joacimyeah thats what i ended up doing16:56
joacim+ doing that was more fun too, since i'd practice docking and such16:56
john_cephalopodaYeah.16:56
pedjaiirc, never could put something in orbit. some spectacular explosions, thou16:57
jaegerjoacim: in that case IPC or single-core clock speed mattered, probably not the cores17:02
jaegerpedja: I've not played KSP, no17:02
Anselmooh that game, havent done that in ages17:05
Anselmonow I actually have machines that could maybe do it justice17:05
pedjajaeger, sorry, I must've misremembered. it happens, I am old :)17:06
jaegerno worries17:06
jaegerWith that said, the performance differences between my intel and AMD machines are *mostly* GPU-related. The intel machine has a GTX 1080 and the AMD machine has an RX 580 (more similar to a GTX 1060)17:07
jaegerIn the case of games that are CPU-bound, the intel has the edge17:07
john_cephalopodaI went to mun and minmus.17:07
john_cephalopodaBut I never felt like sending people further.17:07
jaegerBecause its base clock speed is 4.0GHz (boost 4.4GHz) and the Ryzen's base clock speed is 3.4GHz (boost 3.8GHz)17:08
joacimi sent a dude to duna orbit and back17:13
joacimthink i just landed on one of the moons17:14
joacimi think the mission game mode is a bit boring, but the old science mode is fune enough. progression through unlocks, and you just have to go places to unlock more bits17:14
pedjajaeger, based on reviews I've seen, that edge is shrinking with every Zen generation, which is cool :)17:16
pedjafor most of the games, anyway17:17
jaegeryeah, and that trend will likely continue since intel's supposedly having trouble getting their next generation of fab going17:17
pedjaq4 2019, afaik (10nm nodes)17:17
jaegercould be, I haven't followed the details there17:17
pedjaLevel1Tech news mentioned it17:18
jaegerI'm really tempted to build a ridiculous TR2 box17:19
pedjawx or x?17:19
jaegerprobably just x, I should say "ridiculous for home use needs"17:20
jaegerA 2950X most likely17:20
pedjanice17:20
pedjawell, you do have a home lab17:21
jaegeryeah, though that kind of machine would probably be a main workstation17:22
pedjaor 'battlestation', as they are called in r/amd17:23
jaegerheh17:24
pedjait's interesting that, in the review of the Ryzen 2000 series, the only con the local hardware review site lists is 'low overclocking margin'17:27
joacimit is annoying how much focus tehre is on such things17:27
joacimand watercooling17:27
joacima cpu with not much overclocking potential loses points just for that17:28
joacimor cases without some top vent for radiators17:28
pedjaI think that more people talk about o/c then actually doing it17:28
joacimi like it when they OC, and they pretty much just match turboboost17:29
joacimwhats the point17:29
jaegerI sometimes check out articles about it or watch videos but almost never do it myself17:29
jaegerhaven't had a need17:29
joacimon ryzen ive seen overclocks perform slower than the xfr17:29
joacimsince xfr can bring a single core than a total OC can17:29
joacimhigher than*17:29
pedjawhen I am interested in o/c, I watch Buildzoid do it/ ramble about it :)17:31
pedjagood videos on m/b build quality, too17:32
pedjaI like to watch his and der8auer videos, some cool stuff there17:34
pedjadelidding 2000$ CPU for science is fascinating to watch17:36
joacimdont like how normies run out to delid cpus17:46
joacimand ruining their warranty17:46
joacimand use liquid metal without ever thinking about how the stuff can ruin your components17:47
joacimsolder turns brittle and breaks off much easier17:48
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pedjainstead of delidding, they should just buy AMD :)17:59
joacimor just realize it doesnt matter and stop giving people in the service industry head aches :317:59
joacimhear about a lot of retailers getting delidded returns18:00
joacimthat they no longer can sell18:00
pedjait voids the warranty. why are they talking them back?18:00
pedjataking*18:00
pedjait makes no sense. you broke it, you get to keep it.18:05
Anselmopeople are terribly silly18:05
Anselmodont give more credit than is deserved18:06
pedjaI hate those cringe-worthy 'I dropped 1000$ CPU. oops' yt videos18:12
pedjathat jay character is hurt that AMD hasn't sent him review pack of TR2. boo fucking hoo18:14
pedjahe was quick to say to his viewers 'see, AMD thinks you gamers are not worthy'.ffs18:16
joacimhad a customer that kept returning every single component he bought18:17
pedjadid she have a nice rack, at least?18:17
joacimevery time i came in he would go on and on about his watercooling and that it was a bit of a chore to take it all apart18:17
joacimand we never found a single issue with the stuff he returned18:18
joacimi remember once he called in about a monitor being falsely advertised as 144 Hz, since it was running at 6018:18
pedjahand him the hammer. 'here you go, this will help to take it apart more quickly'18:19
joacimhad to walk him through setting it to 144 in windows settings. guessing he had it set to 60 with an old monitor18:19
ryuohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY418:19
pedja(never worked with customers. can't you tell?)18:19
pedjaryuo, that kid is perfect to play Joker in the next Batman reboot/rehash18:21
pedja'sometimes you just want to watch the world burn'18:21
joacimdont tell them to use a hammer. many of them will actually use one :(18:22
joacimplain customer support is horrible. get so many dim users.18:22
joacimonce had one that spilt some massage cream or something on his laptop18:22
joacimbrought it back under warranty because it smelt bad18:22
joacimsince it was technically within the 30 day period, and it was right before closing, i took it in saying "i'll have a look at it. can't make that decision right now"18:23
ryuojoacim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfE8l5Ok6Jg18:23
joacimday after i find out the damn intern had cracked it open to see if it smelt bad inside too18:24
joacimused a screw driver to pry it open so there were bite marks all around the plastic frame18:24
ryuo...18:24
joacimoutside of the smell, it was in great shape before the intern had a go at it18:24
ryuojoacim: i assume that's not how you normally open a laptop.18:24
ryuojoacim: though my new ProBook has a back cover that's hold in by plastic snaps.18:25
joacimvery carefully, to make sure i dont leave mark18:25
ryuoonly one screw.18:25
joacimmarks18:25
ryuojoacim: ****... i've ruined shit before but not like that.18:25
jaegerI've done some custom watercooling in the past (even recently) but I don't expect anyone else to work on it :P It's a chore for sure, sometimes18:26
joacima lot of those interns have issues i think. some are great and just need a thing to do while looking for work18:26
joacimbut it feels like you have to babysit the other ones. to make sure they dont ruin something expensive18:27
joacimryuo: i think he had one covered in feces18:28
joacimhe closed it up and sent it back without ever doing work on the machine18:28
ryuojoacim: yea, he changed his policy on nasty machines.18:28
ryuohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fajcc1o449I18:30
jaegerI read some threads of IT horror stories... one of them was about a laptop that was turned in for service after being dropped in a bucket that's meant for cleaning healthcare items covered in bodily fluids18:30
jaegerthe bucket was not empty at the time18:30
jaegerhealthcare IT is nightmarish on many levels18:31
joacimyeah i see some open positions at the local healthcare IT shop. i don't apply to those18:31
joacimno thank you. dealt with enough fluids in plain geek squad type positions18:32
jaegerno doubt18:32
pedjahot nurses, easy access to drugs? what's not to like18:32
joacimold geezer once showed up with ear plugs, filled with wax18:32
ryuopedja: exposure to sick people?18:34
ryuopedja: exposure to people exposed to sick people?18:34
ryuoplenty of reasons to not want to work in a hospital.18:35
pedjaryuo, it's not ideal, granted :)18:35
jaegeralso, doctors are terrible from a tech support perspective18:35
joacimseeing those ants in the video, made it crawl in my beard18:36
joacimnow i want to shave it all off18:36
joacimif i was him, i would take that computer outside and hose it down18:37
john_cephalopodaWith alcohol.18:37
joacimthen light it on fire18:38
ryuo"Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."18:38
jaegerI had to clean a computer that had a roach nest in it 2 jobs ago18:38
jaegerFortunately the owner warned us of that BEFORE bringing it in18:38
joacimnice of them :318:38
jaegerSo we put the entire thing in a trash bag and left it in the sun for a few days before even opening the case18:38
jaegerIt was gross :P18:38
joacimworst i had was a spider crawling out of the computer18:38
john_cephalopodaFortunately I don't work with that kind of stuff.18:38
ryuoLet's face it. When you work on other people's crap, you sometimes get really nasty people.18:39
jaegerI don't have to do user tech support anymore, been an engineer for years now. so much better18:39
pedjaACTION is still debugging the apartment18:39
jaegerYeah. Some people are fine, some people are disgusting18:39
pedjafscking roaches...18:39
john_cephalopodaACTION only worked in jobs where he had to write software, never done any hardware stuff (except for building a neat encasing for an embedded device)18:40
pedjanever had a IT job18:43
pedjafriends/family tech support doesn't count :)18:44
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jaegerIf you got paid for it, perhaps :)18:57
jaegerin money, not things like food or beer18:59
pedjanope, none of that money thing :)19:09
jaegerbummer19:10
joacimhow about 40 proof alcohol?19:10
pedja20+ year old whiskey a couple of times19:14
jaegerThat's good at least19:16
frinnstsingle malt ftw19:38
frinnstfuck its hot19:41
jaegerwonder where maraku is lately19:44
jaegerhis ports repo is coming up on 300 sync failures soon, feel like there should be confetti or something19:45
frinnst\o/19:45
frinnstlets do a celebration19:45
frinnstjoacim buys the beers19:45
jaeger:D19:45
joacimbut beer is expensive here :(19:56
joacimi have a feeling pedja should pay for such things since i expect such things are much cheaper where he lives19:56
pedjadepends on the brand19:57
joacimi notice cheap stuff is expensive due to the vice tax19:59
joacimbut more expensive stuff isnt that much more expensive than they are in other places19:59
joacim40 euro for any cheap whisky bottle19:59
frinnstthats what a 70cl lagavulin costs here19:59
frinnst(almost)20:00
joacimgot that today. i paid 70 for a 16 year old20:00
frinnstisnt it lovely tho?20:00
frinnstworth every kr20:00
frinnstI need to finish off my laphroag before I can treat myself with my lagavulin20:01
pedjajoacim, I am pretty sure that even the microbrewery beers made here are cheap compared to Norway :)20:06
pedjasome of them are even available there, afaik20:06
pedjarecent study showed that people earning 900+ €/month are in top 2% of the population20:13
joacimoh wow20:13
joacimthats less than social security here20:14
frinnstyeah but norway is expensive as hell20:14
joacimi have yet to drink mine. ill taste it soon enough20:14
joacimi looked it up. it would be cheaper for me to order a pizza from eastern europe and have it sent here by mail20:14
frinnstlol20:14
joacimthan buying one from the local pizza places20:15
frinnstmight be cold tho20:15
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pedjagood pizza calzone is surprisingly hard to find here20:18
pedjaI ate a *lot* of it when I was in Italy for a month20:20
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pedjamy cousin, where I stayed, asked me 'are you going to eat anything else while you are here?' :)20:24
pedjanope20:24
Anselmowhere are you usually  ?20:25
joacimcold pizza is nice too20:26
AnselmoI dont much like cold pizza c-c20:27
pedjapizza, espresso and gelato, and I am a happy bunny20:27
Anselmoha20:27
joacimmight be a few slices missing due to customs checking if it's good enough for import20:27
joacimdont think ive ever had a good calzone. i usually just buy them since they're so easy to eat20:28
joacimdont get so messy as other fastfoods20:28
AnselmoI dont recally if I've had a store calzone20:28
Anselmobut I'm not really one for streetfood20:28
frinnstanyone here using opt/firefox and is up to date?20:29
frinnstcan you reproduce this? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147440220:30
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pedjaboth tests work fine in upstream binary 61.0.1, fwiw20:34
frinnstodd20:34
frinnstits fixed in 61.0.220:34
frinnstpondering wether to bother with it or not20:35
pedjalooks like a Windows-only issue20:38
frinnstyeah found the :20:38
frinnstUser Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/68.0.3440.17 Safari/537.3620:38
frinnstpart confusing20:38
frinnstfuck it, i'll let it sit at 61.0.1 unless someone pokes me about .220:39
frinnst62 should be out soonish, its up to b15 already20:39
joacimupdates are annoying. why cant they make it right the first time20:40
joacimpedja: think anything bad will happen if vkquake.pak and quakespasm.pak is in the same dir?20:42
pedjaI don't think so20:42
joacimwould be annoying if vkquake loaded the one from quakespasm, and vice versa20:42
pedjaaren't they basically the same?20:43
joacimno idea what the dev did to it20:43
joacimthinking it would be convenient to have assets share a directory20:43
joacimso one wouldnt have to have 3 copies of it if you had darkplaces, quakespasm, and vkquake installed20:44
pedjaif you want to be sure, run strace or something on them, to see what they load20:44
joacimwas thinking you could do it20:44
joacim:320:44
joacimidk. ill figure it out eventually20:45
pedjaheh20:45
joacimnot much of a priority for me since it seems vulkan wont work on my one crux machine atm20:45
joacimtho i only find comments on forums that vulkan isnt supported on sandy bridge20:45
pedjawhat do you mean by 'won't work'?20:46
joacimjust going by what comments say20:47
joacimhavent dug much into it myself20:47
joacimsomething i found while trying to out vulkan stuff on my laptop20:47
pedjaany clues in the vulkaninfo output?20:47
joacim/usr/ports/contrib/vulkan-tools/work/src/Vulkan-Tools-sdk-1.1.77.0/vulkaninfo/vulkaninfo.c:3214: failed with VK_ERROR_INITIALIZATION_FAILED20:50
joacimonly that20:50
pedjawhat's the GPU on that machine?20:57
pedjaintegrated Intel thingie?20:58
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joacimyeah integrated thingie. hd300021:00
joacimi think21:00
joacimsandy bridge21:00
pedjaafaict, no Vulkan for it21:04
jaegersandy bridge not supported, that's correct21:04
pedjagen7 and up21:05
jaegerIf you want it for the onboard intel you need skylake at least21:05
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pedjaivy bridge as a minimum21:06
jaegerwell, I guess there's a disconnect21:06
jaegerthe intel windows driver needs skylake21:06
jaegeranvil in mesa seems to work on ivy and higher21:06
jaegerbut yeah, no sandy bridge in either case21:06
pedjajaeger, you are correct. for Vulkan on Windows, you need Skylake and later :) ivy bridge is a minimum for Linux21:08
pedjaon second read, you just said that :)21:09
pedjamy reading comprehension is hitting its historic low, apparently21:10
joacimthis is why calzones are bad in your country21:12
pedjarare and bad21:13
Anselmojust make your own, they're quite easy21:13
Anselmo:P21:13
Anselmothen you can find all the other depraived calzoneless people of your country and assist them in their plights21:14
pedjamy kitchen stove can't handle it properly21:15
Anselmooh, unfortunate21:17
jaegerpedja: I was researching it while typing, sorry for the confusion :D21:23
jaegerrelated, I'm really impressed with both wine-pba and wine-dxvk21:23
jaegerI think dxvk wins, though, because it works on both the nvidia and AMD GPUs but pba has some issues with fullscreen on the AMD GPU21:24
pedjais pba required for dxvk, or it works with regular wine?21:30
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