IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2018-08-24

*** john_cephalopoda has quit IRC01:31
*** BurnZeZ has quit IRC01:45
*** BurnZeZ has joined #crux01:46
*** midre has joined #crux02:16
*** midre has quit IRC02:17
*** darfo has quit IRC02:21
*** darfo has joined #crux02:22
*** ][_R_][ has quit IRC02:24
*** ][_R_][ has joined #crux02:25
*** pekka20 has quit IRC02:27
*** joacim has quit IRC02:27
*** jue has quit IRC02:27
*** SiFuh has quit IRC02:27
*** nwe has quit IRC02:27
*** wh0pie has quit IRC02:27
*** kInOzAwA has quit IRC02:27
*** leetspete has quit IRC02:27
*** BurnZeZ has quit IRC02:27
*** jue has joined #crux02:32
*** Stealth has joined #crux02:45
*** SiFuh has joined #crux02:46
*** kInOzAwA has joined #crux02:47
*** Tazy has quit IRC03:01
*** surrounder has quit IRC03:01
*** cruxbot has quit IRC03:01
*** Workster has quit IRC03:01
*** smolboye has quit IRC03:01
*** s-mutin has quit IRC03:01
*** 59NAABVF7 has joined #crux03:02
*** surrounder has joined #crux03:03
*** cruxbot has joined #crux03:03
*** pedja has joined #crux03:03
*** Workster has joined #crux03:03
*** smolboye has joined #crux03:03
*** s-mutin has joined #crux03:03
*** xor29ah has joined #crux03:06
*** Tazy has joined #crux03:09
*** tilman_ has joined #crux03:14
*** Workster has quit IRC06:10
*** Workster has joined #crux06:12
*** leetspete has joined #crux06:51
frinnstlovely. one firefox process is using 18gb ram07:12
frinnstand 20gb virtual07:12
ryuofrinnst: that must be a fancy way of saying you have too much RAM. :P07:13
Romsterrip ram07:56
frinnstquantum seems to do this a lot more often than older firefox versions08:01
frinnstor maybe its just me08:01
frinnstany freeradius experts in here?08:04
*** slek has joined #crux09:04
*** abenz has quit IRC09:30
*** abenz has joined #crux10:01
abenzfrinnst: never seen it take that much10:08
abenzmany times I keep a single instance running for 1 week+10:08
abenzleaky addons perhaps?10:08
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: yasm: new maintainer10:11
pedjaheh. setting 'TERM=tmux-256color' and ssh'ing to system with 'old' ncurses leads to quite a few wth moments10:29
pedjaa bit extreme, isn't it? https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=153504937925732&w=210:39
frinnstprobably not, unfortunately11:25
frinnstI did that on my sandy bridge box yesterday11:25
*** john_cephalopoda has joined #crux11:50
*** TheCephalopod has joined #crux12:21
*** john_cephalopoda has quit IRC12:22
pedjafrinnst, how severe is the performance impact? or, as usual, 'it depends' :)12:52
frinnstdid it just before bed so dunno. besides, I dont really use that box anymore12:53
pedjaah, OK12:55
frinnst$ nproc13:03
frinnst413:03
frinnstdid it here at work too13:03
frinnstthis i7 just became an i5 D;13:04
jaegerWe're slowly on our way to making current-gen i7s perform like a pentium 4 :D13:34
pedjawith this trend, my core2 will be as fast as current gen i7 in a few months13:43
pedjawho needs more than 2 cores, anyway?13:44
pedjaff-62.0b20 ? they are taking their sweet time with this release13:46
frinnstoh up to 20 now?13:46
pedjayup13:47
jaegerHrmmm, I wonder if primus will ever get vulkan support14:02
*** jue has quit IRC14:20
pedjaprimus?14:25
*** jue has joined #crux14:26
pedjaah. gpu-offloading thingie?14:29
jaegeryeah, needed for optimus laptops14:31
pedjaiirc, now that most of the parts needed are in xorg-server, nvidia plans to officially support it in the driver14:32
pedjagpu ofloading, I mean14:32
jaegerThat would definitely be interesting14:32
pedjawarning, a looong thread :) https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/957981/linux/prime-render-offloading-on-nvidia-optimus/14:33
pedjathis post, in particular https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/957981/linux/prime-render-offloading-on-nvidia-optimus/post/5276481/#527648114:35
john_cephalopodaIt would be nice if they would actually release their binary driver.14:35
pedjano chance in hell14:35
pedjafor legal and business reasons14:36
pedjayes, AMD did it, which is awesome14:37
pedjaNvidia has lions share of the Linux market where it actually counts, machines running CUDA for machine learning and similar things14:46
pedjadesktop use is a couple of percent, at best14:47
pedjawhen Vulkan and openCL 'merge', and AMD upstreams all the bits they need, and major ML frameworks provide openCL as a backend, maybe something will change14:54
pedjaI won't hold my breath, though14:54
pedjafrom the practical standpoint, I don't really care if they ever release the source for their binary driver, as long it works.14:56
jaegerAgreed, nvidia will never do that14:59
pedjait's funny to read posts from people pledging never to buy nvidia again drooling over recently announced 2000 series15:01
pedjaand 'can AMD fight back Turing?'15:04
*** brian|lfs has joined #crux15:09
brian|lfswhy was half of OPT nuked15:10
*** slek has quit IRC15:12
pedjaremoved .md5sum files15:13
pedjafrom core, opt and xorg15:13
pedja2080ti is ~1300 €15:14
pedjaand, apparently, sold out on Amazon and friends :)15:15
brian|lfsah ok15:15
*** slek has joined #crux15:19
pedjaI don't get it. why would anyone drop that kind of money on gfx card before reading the reviews or seeing the benchmarks? resale?15:19
john_cephalopodaCrypto mining maybe?15:21
pedjais crypto mining still that profitable?15:22
pedjamaybe they expect that the price on launch would go so over msrp they can make a nice profit selling it off. who knows15:25
pedjaI've given up on trying to understand humans a long time ago15:26
abenzdid anyone cash in on amd stock?15:28
abenza couple of years back it was sub 2, while now..15:28
john_cephalopodaI bet some people gained a lot with AMD stocks but selling them now would be too early.15:33
john_cephalopodaAMD just started getting onto Intel's niveau.15:33
abenzyea15:34
abenzthe change in whats considered mainstream changed so drastically that I think many people still aren't fully aware of it15:34
abenzpeople got used to 4c/8t for ages15:35
abenzand now they say intel will go back to soldering high end cpus15:35
abenzcompetition really is healthy!15:35
john_cephalopodaTbh I don't really see the advantage of over 4c/8t.15:36
abenzas a crux user, I sure do see it.15:36
john_cephalopodaThe only time when I actually use my CPUs to their max is when I compile wine or gcc or chromium or qt5.15:36
abenzthink rust and firefox compiles15:37
abenzthat really depends on what you do15:37
john_cephalopodaTrue, but source-based distros are a niche market.15:37
abenzI dont see it that way15:38
abenzI'll give you an example15:38
abenzwhy do vendors still make 100mbps pcie cards?!15:38
abenzlike those chipsets should be dead, all should use 1gbps at least15:38
abenzbut chipset makers still make 100mbps, for "market segmentation"15:38
abenzthere's no cost reduction in manufacturing or any of that15:38
abenzmilking strategies basically15:39
abenzso you saying no advantage over 4c/8t is like when bill gates said in the 90s (or was it 80s?), that no one will ever need more than xxxKbytes of RAM!15:40
john_cephalopodaI don't think that it's so simple. There is a difference in how elaborate your hardware must be to do 10,000 times the speed.15:40
john_cephalopodaabenz: Actually this is an urban legend, Bill Gates never said that. When he was asked, he said that nobody in IT would ever say something like that.15:40
abenzand software is becoming extremely bloated, companies want to release new software quickly and use high level languages, no optimization15:41
john_cephalopodaOh, wait, it's 10 times, not 100,000.15:41
john_cephalopodaÜ*10,0015:41
john_cephalopodaThe question is: Do we solve that issue by making our systems bigger and faster, or do we just write better, optimized software?15:42
abenzproblem is we can't control the market15:43
abenzso if we will get milked by software companies, can we at least try to prevent milking from hardware companies as well?15:43
john_cephalopodaWe can make the market ourself. Cathedral vs. Bazaar.15:43
*** onodera has joined #crux15:44
pedjawhat's 'cathedral vs bazaar' have to do with the market?15:44
abenzits a reference to a famous book about software dev15:45
pedjaI know15:45
john_cephalopodaOpen-source software tends to be way less crappy than closed-source one.15:45
john_cephalopodaWhen you have open protocols, you will have a variety of clients and can choose the one that you like most.15:46
john_cephalopodaOpen formats allow you to set up a flawless pipeline between programs.15:47
john_cephalopodaThe majority of things that take ages to compile are not programs that have to do a lot of complex work but programs that are just bloated for no real reason and try to do everything at once.15:50
john_cephalopodaLook at qt5. Takes an hour to compile on a fast computer, is 500 MB big and does less than godot engine (~10 MB), a nice game engine with a graphical editor, tons of features and a very decent GUI framework.15:51
*** brian|lfs has quit IRC15:53
john_cephalopodaChromium. A mess. Basically a game engine that uses JS for code and HTML+CSS for description.15:53
*** abenz has quit IRC16:16
pedjaI think that game engine and application framework have different scopes. but, I am not a developer, so what the hell do I know :)16:20
pedjaand web engines *have* to do a lot of complex work, modern web has moved on since the 2000s, imho16:22
pedjaI'll give the Mozilla, Google, QT engineers a benefit of the doubt that they are not complete morons and don't know any better16:27
*** abenz has joined #crux16:29
pedjaACTION is watching Dark Matter S316:38
pedjawith this and The Expanse canceled, I suspect that SyFy management has gone mad from using some low-quality recreational shit16:40
john_cephalopodaFirefox is better than Chromium.16:56
john_cephalopodaWe need some crowdfunded, open-source Netflix alternative that produces stuff people want to see :þ16:57
*** abenz has quit IRC17:48
surrounderwait what, the expanse cancelled? :-/17:52
ryuosurrounder: it wasn't expansive enough. :p17:54
surrounderhehe17:54
*** slek has quit IRC17:57
*** abenz has joined #crux18:00
*** vlnx has joined #crux18:08
jaegeramazon picked it up for s4, didn't they?18:09
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: feh: fixed signature18:14
ryuofeh is pretty meh.18:15
ryuool18:15
*** onodera has quit IRC20:17
frinnsthttp://fuck.horse/20:42
frinnstso thats a thing20:42
pedjano way I am opening that link20:44
frinnstheh nothing graphic you big baby!20:45
pedjashopping crux.horse, by any chance :) ?20:50
frinnsttempting20:51
pedjawho comes up with those tld, I wonder20:51
jaegera bot with a dictionary20:52
frinnststoned interns probably20:53
pedjacrux.io is taken20:55
pedjain case you were wondering :)20:55
frinnst.io is very hip with the github kids20:56
frinnsthaving a .io probably doubles your chances of investment20:56
pedjayou hang out with web developers, what's hip these days? carousel page, one of those scroll down endlessly, something else?21:03
frinnstfuck no21:03
frinnstI dont21:03
frinnstI just need to fix their tickets21:03
frinnstbut all websites I help deploy are like that, yeah21:04
frinnstits a wordpress theme21:04
pedjacorporate sites?21:07
frinnsteverything but backend stuff, yeah21:08
pedja'case mod world series' is a thing, apparently. https://www.cmws.global/fullscreen-page/comp-jl1xtdkf/83405e29-655e-40b7-8dba-d6d8706f4b39/3/%3Fi%3D3%26p%3Duys5d%26s%3Dstyle-jl1xtemw121:19
pedja(that's the winning case, team from Serbia :))21:20
frinnstnice21:20
frinnstits like people showing off their old cars. whatever you call it21:20
pedjavintage?21:22
frinnstconcourse21:22
frinnsthttp://www.concoursdates.com/21:23
frinnstits fun going full nerd sometimes21:24
pedjasome say that in 20 years that kind of shows would be the only place you can see a car with ICE :)21:32
frinnst20 might be a bit soon but 50? sure21:35
pedja20 in your part of the world, 100 in mine :)21:37
frinnstactually, 20 might be pretty accurate21:37
frinnstnah, we keep our cars rolling for a looong time here21:37
frinnststill se quite a lot of 80s volvos and saabs rolling the streets in my town21:38
pedjalast time I checked, 15y was an average car age here21:38
pedjasince recently, all vehicles older than that has to go to technical twice a year21:42
pedja'write OpenSSH format private keys by default'. finally22:12
pedjaIntel's benchmarks on l1tf mitigation impact are interesting https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/l1tf.html22:19
pedjafrom 0.5-31%, in worst case22:21
frinnstadorable22:38
pedjanow they lifted, afaik, benchmark ban, it would be interesting to see same tests run on AMD :)22:49
pedjabuilding 4.18 kernel and killing roaches. typical party animal Friday night22:53
ryuolol23:21
ryuohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGedskcjGow23:21
*** pedja has quit IRC23:33

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.14.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!