IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2018-09-17

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dlcusaThe two big questions:  How long will this last?  How will it impact kernel development?  Probably both are uncertain quantities.01:49
dlcusaA few folks over at #funtoo are pretty hot about Linus' decision, but not Linus.02:18
dlcusas/not Linus/not Linus personally/02:20
joacimnot sure if there is much to talk about03:10
joacimhe thinks he isnt as nice as he could be, takes some time off so he can figure out how to be nicer when he comes back03:11
joacimhis decision03:11
abenzwho has libreoffice installed?03:29
abenzsoffice --draw03:29
abenzdoes the above work?03:29
john_cephalopodaComponent cannot be loaded, possibly broken or incomplete installation.03:32
john_cephalopoda loading component library <file:///usr/lib/libreoffice/program/../program/> failed.03:32
abenzyup, same error03:32
abenzteK_: ^03:32
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elderKHey guys,06:31
elderKWhat's the... right way to have dbus-python for py3 and py2?06:31
elderKI created a simple package for dbus-python3, but, it won't install because it conflicts with files already present by dbus-python06:32
elderKI could have my package depend on dbus-python, and just remove the offending files from my package.06:32
elderKBut that seems wrong06:32
Worksterdid you run with python3 ?07:00
WorksterPYTHON=/usr/bin/python3 \07:02
Workster        ../configure --prefix=/usr07:02
elderKYeah, I did.07:22
elderKWhat I'm saying is, I have dbus-python installed for some program that needs python2 stuff07:22
elderKand I have other stuff that is python3.07:23
elderKbut it also needs dbus-python.07:23
elderKJust the python3 version07:23
elderKBut I can't have them both, because they stand on each other07:23
elderK(i.e. the header files they install.)07:23
frinnsthow much stuff still need python2?07:24
elderKWell, I tried to use prt-get dependents but it does't work :(07:26
elderKI forget what I have to do to get that to work07:26
elderKIt never shows me anything when I ask for dependents of some package.07:26
pedjarevdep libreoffice is interesting. libavahi, really?08:42
pedja6.1.1 is broken, too08:53
pedjatime to switch to AppImage, I guess08:54
pedjanope. that's broken, too :)08:55
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elderKGuys, what do you have to do so that prt-get dependents works?10:14
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pedjayay, 4.18.810:54
pedjaapparently the issue I had with the NIC was a kernel bug10:54
elderKWhat NIC, ooc?10:56
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pedjaRealtek gigabit10:58
pedjaelderK, r8169 driver10:58
ronin7zanyone who could tell me what version the respective wine versions are? or especially jaeger pba package10:58
ronin7zis it still on 2.7?10:58
elderKInteresting. I would have probably had issue stoo if I actually used Ethernet!10:59
ronin7zpedja: the main wine64 package or jaegers?10:59
elderKGod, I haven't used Eth in so damned long. I remember being extremely reluctant to use Wifi back in the day. It's funny how things hcange.10:59
pedjaronin7z, opt/wine10:59
ronin7zdoes that have x64 support?10:59
elderKSeems to, Ronin.11:00
elderKI'm pretty sure it does, in fact11:00
pedjait does11:00
ronin7zi kinda need staging, i might look into how to package that myself11:00
pedjasame deal, just change the source?11:00
ronin7zi thought you had to add staging as a patch to the source of normal wine11:01
pedjawell, you could roll your own tarball, I guess11:07
pedjaI am curious. why wine-staging? dxvk?11:08
ronin7zyee mainly11:09
ronin7zdxvk does function without staging, but the dev told me its better to use staging11:09
ronin7zbecause thats what he develops latest for11:09
pedjaelderK, I use wifi only when I have to :)11:10
pedjaelderK, fancy 802.11ac or b/g/n?11:11
elderKSupports ac but using bgn11:12
elderKSince my routers aren't cutting ege11:12
pedjawhich vendor? Intel?11:13
pedjafor the ac11:13
pedjanice. AMD compute bits were merged upstream, apparently. any brave souls working on packaging ROCm for CRUX :) ?11:14
elderKYeah, Intel.11:16
elderKI remember the first machine I had that supported wifi - Broadcom 43something11:16
elderKit was horribly unreliable, especially under Linux11:16
elderKYou had to use ndiswrapper back then and stuff.11:16
elderKThings have got a lot better :)11:16
pedjas/was/still is/11:16
pedjab43 one, at least11:16
pedjait works fine for a while, and then just gets stuck, twiddling its thumbs11:18
pedjacaused me a lot of grief on my netbook11:19
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pedjaso I got one of these
elderKNice :)11:25
elderKI had a wifi at one point, some realtek one, I think.11:25
elderKIt was a real bastard because it at the time, didn't have an in-kernel module.11:25
elderKPretty sure it was realtek - it was integrated. But man, it was unreliable.11:26
elderKThis was in 2011, so, it's probably well supported now. But then, jeez.11:26
pedjayeah, sounds like realtek :)11:26
elderKI've had pleasure using Atheros or Intel though, mostly Intel.11:26
elderKI used to be an AMD guy long ago but man, I'm pretty much an accidental Intel fanboy now.11:27
elderKMinus the cheering. I just prefer to use Intel products nowadays. Everything usually works pretty well with Linux.11:27
elderKIt's like for a time, I had a laptop with hybrid graphics - Radeon and Intel.11:27
pedjaAMD has put a ton of work into Linux lately11:27
elderKOf course, getting the radeon gpu to work was always finnicky and didn't really work that well. But Intel /always/ works well.11:28
elderKAnd it's been like 12 years since I owned a proper discrete video card :P11:28
elderK(Back when NVIDIA was nVIDIA and had a neat logo :P)11:28
pedjaATI ones were...temperamental...11:29
elderKHave you ever had the misfortune to use Trident Cyberblades or "Trident Unichromes" with Linux?11:30
elderKGod, so, so, so utterly horrible.11:31
pedjanot that I remember11:31
elderK:P They were cheap integrated chipsets back before integrated 3d chipsets were common.11:32
elderKDecent for 2D. HORRIBLE for 3D. I mean, they struggled to run Quake 2 at 800x600 :P11:33
elderKYou were lucky to have a consistent frame rate at 640x480 even :P11:33
elderK:P What's the most bastard-annoying hardware you've ever had t ouse with Linux? :D11:33
pedjahm. that's an excellent question :)11:34
pedjaanalog TV tuner I had, I guess. fiddling with kernel module options to make it work on every kernel update11:40
pedjait worked fine on Windows, of course :)11:40
elderK:P Always does.11:41
elderKI remember this monitor I had once. It was a Viewsonic, so I expected it to be awesome.11:42
elderKI think it was more the hardware than Linux itself, but man, it's like every so often it would start sending gibberish EDID or something.11:42
elderKIt would forget it's native resolution, and you couldnt' access it.11:42
elderKSo you'd have to power it down for about 15-20 minutes.11:42
elderKThen it'd work fine for a few weeks, and you'd have to do it again.11:43
elderKI tried all kinds of stuff - like dumping the "good EDID" and you know, forcing that11:43
elderKbut no love.11:43
elderKGod, it was a PITA.11:43
pedjawas it an issue with the whole series, or was it just your monitor?11:47
pedjabut that kind of issue is hard to get refund for, so :)11:48
pedjawhen I upgraded from CRT years ago, I did my research, and ended up with this Dell U2312HM.11:50
pedjaone of the best purchases ever11:51
pedjawhen I don't fsck it up cleaning it with, apparently, stale LCD cleaner solution, that is11:52
pedjabut, it's better now. what was once huge white cloud in the bottom right corner of the screen, is now a small constellation of white dots. phew.11:56
ronin7zwhat happened to the 6c37 ports?11:56
ronin7zunlucky, it had so many packages11:57
pedjaiirc, the developer moved on, or something11:58
pedjatbh, I don't know what happened with it. didn't it have several contributors?12:02
ronin7zyee thats what i thought12:13
ronin7zi think it was run by multiple people yes12:13
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: ddgr: Initial import12:25
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ronin7zhii, anyone here using kde5?12:51
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joacimtried it for a bit on fedora12:54
joacimgot a bit annoyed by stability issues. since then ive mostly just stuck with mate12:55
john_cephalopodaI used parts of KDE, but not the plasma desktop.12:58
ronin7zye im having some issues with the port12:58
ronin7zi want to set it up so people that dont really know their way around wm can still use my pc12:58
ronin7zlike my girlfriend12:58
joacimmate ports works well12:59
john_cephalopodaKDE is giant. It's a mess of frameworks.12:59
joacimsome ports are a bit iffy and requires that you retry the build, but overall it is a decent set of ports12:59
john_cephalopodaBetter try Mate, lxde or xfce. Those are way leaner.12:59
joacimmate do feel a bit old fashioned tho12:59
joacimi remember gnome 2 was considered bloated13:00
joacimand now mate is lean :313:00
john_cephalopodaIt's leaner than KDE.13:00
john_cephalopodalxde and xfce are basically the best choice when you want a lean, intuitive desktop.13:00
ronin7zhmmm, i will look into those then13:01
ronin7zgotta run now tho13:01
joacimi think xfwm can be a bit annoying. at least in modern times with a higher dpi monitor13:01
joacimi really like some parts of kde. like the icons only view of the task list13:02
joacimit is great and well thought out13:02
joacimi miss that in mate.13:02
joacimbut still. kwin crashes when i alt+tab13:03
pedjadon't alt-tab then ;)13:36
pedjaI've been using xfce-4.13 for a while now. no major issues, afaict13:37
pedjabut I do mostly use the terminal and sometimes Thunar, so13:39
jaegerelderK: prt-get dependent works for installed packages by default. If you want to check others, add --all13:45
elderKIt doesn't always seem to function...13:46
elderKI'll try to replicate this and find out why.13:46
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jaegerronin7z: pba patches are applied against wine-staging 3.713:46
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pedjaargh. how do I switch between 32bit and 64bit wine envs? when I run 'wine foo.exe', I presumed it will use the 32bit one14:18
joaciminstall windows in a vm :314:18
pedjaI did. it runs poorly :)14:19
pedjathink I even forgot the pass for both of them (win7 and 2012r2)14:23
jaegerpedja: set WINEPREFIX and WINEARCH14:26
pedjajaeger, I thought I did :) -ENEEDMORECOFFEE14:27
joacimwould be nice if virt-manager would recognise bonded interfaces14:27
joacimit detects the slaves, but not bond014:27
joacimi like how quick and simple Alpine is.14:35
jaegerpedja: :)15:25
john_cephalopodaIsn't there wine-32?15:43
john_cephalopodawine64 and wine... Hmm...15:44
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pedjaI lol'd
joacimso if you need xeon for whatever, say you're considering epyc? =)16:31
pedjapretty much16:34
pedjacomments are gold too 'Intel has for superior security than AMD.'16:34
pedja(typo not mine)16:34
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john_cephalopodaYes, Intel ME bugs, Spectre, Meltdown and Foreshadow are definitely no issues.17:23
john_cephalopodaNext time I buy a CPU, it's either AMD or a Zilog Z80 ;รพ17:23
pedjajohn_cephalopoda, read that comment in full (it's near the end of that page) :)17:31
john_cephalopodaYeah, 30% performance loss is a perfect fix. Good that we got that on Intel.17:35
john_cephalopodaAnd the bugs not being fixed until they are eventually released because Intel is shitty slow also doesn't help.17:36
john_cephalopodaHow long did it take from the Spectre release until the fix was actually deployed? Intel had months to fix that issue.17:37
john_cephalopodaAlso as far as I remember the Intel ME issue is not fixed yet.17:38
john_cephalopodaIt is just out there, for anybody to exploit. Fun.17:38
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frinnstgood job, hp20:37
frinnstwhat a clusterfuck20:38
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john_cephalopodaAny repo that offers blender?21:34
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pedjacontrib, soon-ish21:39
pedjaneeds cleaning up, because 'it works on my machine[tm]' ain't gonna cut it :)21:41
jaegerthere are a couple in the portdb, in the meantime21:41
Anselmothe 6c37 one still works here21:41
pedjalet's see if I can steal some ideas from them21:42
pedjabut I do use upstream master snapshot, and Cycles built with CUDA, so21:46
pedjayay, my post to AMD community forum was finally approved by the mods21:54
ronin7ztime to set up wine22:09
ronin7zjaeger: is your port still at 2.7-staging?22:09
joacimi still cant spell 6x37 without looking it up first22:10
joacim6c37. almost had it22:10
ronin7zwasnt it 6c4722:10
ronin7zi menat 3722:10
ronin7zoh right anyone had any luck getting controllers working with steam/steamplay?22:11
Anselmo35c3 6c37, too many weird abbreviations and my head doesnt work at all of them22:11
ronin7zthat is a very common problem22:13
ronin7zjoacim: pedja about winvm, performance with passthrough works fantastic22:14
ronin7zhavent tried it on crux yet tho22:14
joacimfor me it was horrible, but i tried it on a ryzen system before it got patched =)22:15
joacimi should throw another card in my system again and give it another go22:15
ronin7zi just did it with my main gpu and i used my igpu for the system22:15
ronin7zbut i stopped it because i want to be able to support native games22:16
joacimi assume controllers should just work, if you have the correct driver for them22:16
ronin7zalso steamplay :)22:16
ronin7zyee i enabled them in the kernel , might be missing some other package i guess22:16
joacimnot much of an igpu on mine. bought the rx 550 it has now since it is fairly low power, works with plain amdgpu drivers, so i could have something for linux while the more capable card was used in windows22:17
jaegerronin7z: I mentioned earlier, 3.7-staging22:17
ronin7zjaeger: oh sorry, i must have missed that22:17
jaegerI did VFIO passthrough on my haswell box, worked really well22:18
jaegerI haven't done so on the skylake box but I've read that it also works well22:18
ronin7zi did it on my skylake machine22:19
ronin7zbut its still using windows so i was like, mehh22:19
ronin7zand i also couldnt play games on the host anymore22:19
pedjausing passthrough with something like Fusion360 would be something much more interesting to me then games :)22:19
pedjaAutocad CAD software22:20
pedjaone day[tm], when I have the hw for it22:20
ronin7zi think it should work tm22:22
ronin7zdepending on your cpu i guess22:22
ronin7zgpu performance should be around like 95%22:22
pedjanot on my potatoputer :)22:23
ronin7zhmm, steamplay doesnt seem to work on crux22:24
pedjaisn't proton/steamplay Wine fork+dxvk?22:25
ronin7zyee kinda22:25
pedjadxvk works on CRUX, if Wine is built with Vulkan, right?22:28
pedjahaven't played with it22:28
ronin7zye im dumb22:28
ronin7zi forgot to install vulkan22:28
ronin7zhmm still doesnt work22:29
jaegerI don't think wine even really builds with vulkan22:29
ronin7zguess i will try rebooting22:29
pedjanext Vulkan release, one after 1.1.84, should include some extensions DXVK relies on for...Witcher?22:30
jaegeryou install wine-staging, then you use the dxvk setup to install the dxvk DLLs22:30
jaegeras of 0.70 it was done via a winetricks verb22:30
jaegerI currently use a little of both, though I think I prefer dxvk22:31
ronin7zdxvk is amazing22:31
jaegerhave to use pba on the laptop because vulkan and optimus don't work together22:31
ronin7zyee games really dont seem to boot with steampla22:31
ronin7zthey booted on arch22:31
jaegerOn the desktop system, though, with both AMD and nvidia GPUs, dxvk works great22:31
ronin7zwhat wine version u using on desktop?22:32
ronin7zalso 3.7?22:32
jaegerI've run a few games with steamplay, it depends entirely on the game itself whether or not it works, maybe still aren't supported22:32
ronin7zi played the game yday on arch which is why im confused22:32
ronin7zbut like, i dont think it has to do with the port22:32
jaegeronly 3.7 on the laptop since that's where pba is22:32
pedjajaeger, I have a in Wine footprint. or I misunderstood what you mean by 'I don't think wine even really builds with vulkan'?22:33
jaegeron the desktop, I'm using staging at commit 9d12bd013b2e67eb8fccafc926b785e2735909fe22:33
jaegernot sure what version22:33
jaegerpedja: maybe I'm wrong about that, I didn't look into it closely22:33
ronin7zwhy didnt you make a port of it :eyes:22:33
joacimi fear such projects will make directx and win32 into crossplatform systems22:34
jaegerBecause nobody's asked for it previously :)22:34
pedjajaeger, don't confuse me, it's late night/early morning here :)22:34
ronin7zi would certainly be interested22:34
jaegerpedja: sorry :P22:35
pedjanp :)22:35
jaegerAnyway, I think dxvk works with any wine 3.10 or newer, but pba is specifically for wine-staging 3.722:36
ronin7zthere are pba patches for later wines i think22:36
jaegerSo a wine-staging port should be sufficient for dxvk, probably22:36
ronin7zthere also is esynnc and whatnot22:36
ronin7zand yee i imagine it would22:36
pedjahow many wine forks are out there?22:36
jaegerronin7z: maybe so, just going by the text here:
jaegerI probably won't have time tonight, but I'll make a wine-staging port22:38
ronin7zjaeger: that would be very nice22:38
ronin7zi will try it out when its done :)22:38
pedjajoacim, wouldn't crossplatform imply native directx on Linux?22:39
pedjaor official port?22:39
joacimnot the way i said it22:40
pedjadxvk is a brilliant hack :)22:40
joacimunderstand it as developers no longer making native linux and os x games, and only use wine/dxvk for their "port"22:40
joacimit already happens, but i think this could cause even fewer native games22:41
pedjaah, in that sense. OK22:42
ronin7zjoacim: honestly i personally dont mind that too much22:44
ronin7zim just happy if i can play my games22:44
joacimoh i have monopoly for that. nobody wants to play it with me tho22:45
pedjaidk, some think that, since playing using Proton counts as Linux, Linux numbers increasing would make some publishers think more about native games22:53
pedjaand one theory is that the idea is to 'gently' push developers from directx to Vulkan, which is cross-platform22:54
pedjamost major gaming engines either support it or are in the process of supporting it22:55
pedjalowering the bar to entry, since Vulkan is so low-level API22:56
pedjatbh, i don't care, since I am not a gamer :)22:57
joacimi bet you dont even have an all rgb computer setup22:58
joacimrgb stuff is getting way silly22:58
joacimseen rgb mousepads and chairs now22:58
joacimim sure someone has an rgb desk too22:58
joacimlevel1techs comes out with an rgb kvm switch soon22:58
pedjamouse and one case fan have LEDs, does that count?22:58
joacimneed a lot more than that22:59
pedjai am kinda liking the mouse LED, slowly breathing dark shade of green23:01
joacimmine just have the one led on the bottom that indicates the dpi23:01
pedjathere is a cool sw for 'gaming' mice control on Linux, too bad it relies on one of systemd libs (not the whole thing)23:03
pedjaapparently, libsystemd is the sanest way to communicate with DBUS23:03
joacimthat doesnt sound very sane23:04
pedjapeople have been asking for it to be made available separately from systemd for a while now. not going to happen23:05
pedjathere is no apparent technical reason for it, just 'fuck you, that's why'23:07
pedjaoh, well. when I need to update firmware on the mouse, I'll just use Logitech's 300Mb Windows app on a laptop23:08
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joaciminstead of asking, people could simply make it available23:09
pedjait has to be built as part of the systemd.23:10
pedjayou could throw away the rest afterwards, but the build itself has to be from within systemd source tree23:11
joacimdoubt systemd devs are going to maintain something that isnt part of systemd23:11
joacimyou know, all of that sounds like monolithic xorg and xfree86.23:11
joacimyet they say systemd is modular, since you can download the entire monolithic package and build the one thing you want23:12
pedjamodular in a sense that there are 40+ binaries :)23:13
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ronin7zanyone here had any luck with steamplay?23:14
ronin7zi cant seem to get it working23:14
pedjaerror logs are nice, crystal balls of prophecy are in the short supply these days23:15
ronin7zhere they come23:15
ronin7zbut ye i was just curious if anyone else had tried succesfully23:16
pedjawhat's with that 'permission denied' error?23:18
ronin7zi have no idea tbh23:18
ronin7zpermissions should be fine23:19
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ronin7zanyoneh ere tried lutris?23:40
joacimnot me23:41

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