IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2018-09-21

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Anselmowait was I banned ?02:32
joacimAnselmo: no it is spambot issues. some strange ban line that prevents unregistered users from joining02:44
Anselmoooh hrm,02:45
Anselmoshould make sure my scripts be sure to message nickserv before I try and join channels perhaps02:45
joacimi've been trying to hint towards removing the ban line and just using a plain +r mode for the channel for a while :302:45
Anselmohaha, well.02:46
joacimsince it provides less confusing error messages02:46
Anselmowell, if the effect is identical. . . .02:46
joacimyou can identify with sasl. freenode supports some other methods too, that all make sure you get identified before your client attmepts to join any channels02:46
joacimboth options get rid of the spambot, but only one of the options makes people think theyre banned02:47
Anselmowhich is sort of worrying ^^02:47
joacimhttps://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl02:47
Anselmoso many things I *should* setup at some point soon x-x02:48
AnselmoACTION should make checklists02:48
joacimi just fill a text file that i leave on my desktop =)02:53
joacimbut after a while, i forget to read it02:53
Anselmohehehe02:53
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ryuojoacim: they used those so the unregistered bots can still get in.04:41
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beli3ver2 days crux and it is amazing never ever other distros again06:11
joacimryuo: i know. think users are a lot more important than some unregistered bot tho06:43
frinnstbeli3ver: glad you like it07:18
beli3verYes amazing thanks07:56
joacimdoes making Pkgfiles and simple loops and if statements once in a while count as scripting experience?08:41
beli3verDoes somebody here use the kernel 4.18.9?09:00
joacimim still on older ones09:01
joacimi like to lag behind by a major version or two09:01
frinnstyeah09:16
frinnstjesus christ jaeger09:45
beli3verI make the New like the old one but no USB support09:47
beli3verWhich module ist for USB support ?09:47
beli3verLsusb is empty09:48
joacimbeli3ver: EHCI and xHCI I believe09:49
joacimjust plain drivers ehci and xhci drivers should work for most09:49
joacim%s/drivers //09:51
beli3verMenuconfig has no search so hard to find something09:54
joacimoh it  does. hit /09:54
joacimbut once you know what you're looking for, you still have to locate it in the menus afaik09:55
beli3verOK i found it, sorry for all these questions :-(09:56
joacimis ok =)09:56
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beli3verYes USB is working10:05
beli3verWifi the same? 14.4.4 has it 4.18.9 not. Qualcom ....10:25
joacimshould be there. maybe they just moved it10:38
joacimin my experience getting a working config for wifi was a bit fiddly. needed a few more features and modules than just the chipset itself10:39
joacimgentoo wiki might document what's needed10:39
beli3verOK10:40
pedjafrinnst, quote from post-office lady 'it must've been stuck somewhere. happens a lot these days, people buy a lot of shit from Aliexpress' :)10:58
joacimdo i even want to know what NPC means outside the context of video games?11:02
joacimi feel like i just add more and more stuff to my filter list to make comment sections and forums more tolerable11:02
joacimfiltering out NPC is a bit annoying since I like my video games11:03
pedjawhat is NPC in video games context?11:03
joacimnon-player character11:04
pedjaah11:04
joacimanyone that isnt controlled by someone =)11:04
pedjathey are controlled by the games engine, aren't they?11:04
joacimyeh11:06
pedjawell, game AI aren't 'someone', I guess. yet11:06
joacimnot sure when AI becomes AI11:06
joacimor becomes someone11:06
joacimrather than something11:06
pedjawhen the laws give them that designation/rights :)11:07
pedjalike in the Asimov's 'I, Robot'11:07
joacimhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmkExGLa3AI11:08
joacimI get to about 70 seconds and then I die11:08
pedjais it a gruesome death?11:11
joacimno, the most pathetic =)11:11
pedjaheh. no Valhalla for you11:11
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pedjahm. just install, drop root.hints into etc/unbound, and start it? that's it? can't be that simple :)11:53
beli3verAll people here from sweden ? Or norway?12:10
beli3verfrinnst: http://www.karsikkopuu.net/crux/scripts/ is not working12:14
pedjabeli3ver, nah, we are from all over the place :)12:19
frinnstbeli3ver: I have no idea what that page is about. sorry12:28
frinnstdid you find a link to it from crux.nu ?12:28
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beli3verfrinnst: in your ports page in the footer13:31
frinnstah. quite possible. Its generated by portspage - part of prt-utils13:36
jaegerfrinnst: what?13:41
jaegeroh, the ncix thing?13:42
beli3verHave somebody crux AS Webserver in the Internet running13:44
AnselmoI have a crux webserver13:45
jaegersure, a few of us13:45
beli3verNice i can remove debian13:47
beli3verIn 2 days i learned so much over the kernel like in 10 years Debian before not13:48
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: sqlite3: update to 3.25.114:18
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: nano: update to 3.114:18
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: [notify] maildrop: update to 3.0.0, new dependency libidn14:18
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: courier-unicode: update to 2.114:18
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: chrony: update to 3.414:18
frinnstheh yeah14:35
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beli3verWhere can i get gtkdocize for networkmanager15:55
Anselmothe gtk-doc pacakge should have it16:01
beli3verThanks16:02
Anselmoyou can search packages for specific files with prt-get fsearch <filename>16:03
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pedja'ethernet: GbE with dongle (sold separately)' heh22:18
joacimwhich device?22:43
john_cephalopodaDoes anybody else experience problems related to brotli when compiling curl-32?22:45
pedjajoacim, new AMD APU-based Thinkpad22:45
pedja12.5', iirc22:47
joacimah22:48
joacimgood thinkpad or flimsy?22:48
joacimtbh, i dont care too much about missing wired ethernet on a laptop22:48
joacimbut it should have more than just a bunch of annoying and confusing USB-C ports22:49
joacimhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly-bSBHOSIo22:49
john_cephalopodaI rarely use my ethernet port, but possibly VGA and definitely HDMI out are kind of a must nowadays.22:49
Anselmomblah, I relatively recently found a laptop who has a broken display and doesnt have any good way to plug it into a screen apart from that22:50
john_cephalopodaIf you don't want to juggle around with adapters.22:50
Anselmoso its a pain to use x-x22:50
pedjajoacim, https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-a-series/A285/p/22TP2TAA28522:50
joacimi dont want vga22:50
john_cephalopodaMy old laptop (2009~ish) has only VGA, my new one (2013~ish) has VGA and HDMI.22:50
joacimjust give me dp and i can carry the hdmi dongle for the rare times i have to use that22:51
joacimi rather have a good serial port than vga22:51
john_cephalopodaYou never know what crappy old projector you will have to use at your next presentation.22:51
joacimpedja: whats that port next to the ac input?22:52
john_cephalopodaAt my university there is no single projector with dp exposed. They got VGA and HDMI in. MacBook profs have to carry a dongle.22:52
Anselmoha22:52
joacimif someone pay me to hold a presentation, they can afford to have equipment in place that convert from whatever people bring, or a new enough projector to have native hdmi22:52
AnselmoACTION hasnt needed to do any sort of presentations in rather a while ^_^22:53
joacimat my university, there is a box with a selection of all kinds of cables for all kinds of laptops22:53
joacimdont know if they have equipment to allow stuff like tablets22:53
john_cephalopodaAnselmo: Well, I'm studing right now (master of science) and I have to do presentations from time to time.22:54
Anselmoyeah no, its just interesting to think how much my needs have changed over time22:54
john_cephalopodaAnd the people who have to use a glitchy adaptor or forgot theirs always got the disadvantage.22:54
joacimyour needs do not dictate new laptop designs22:54
Anselmoat one point in the past that would probably have been something of concern to me22:54
joacimthat you have to work with old crap shouldnt matter for new laptops22:54
joacimsure would be great for me if laptops came with serial ports, but i dont expect them22:54
joacimi have a dongle for that kind of stuff22:55
john_cephalopodaWhat's the advantage of DP over HDMI?22:55
Anselmohas a lot greater bandwidth22:55
joacimvesa standard22:55
john_cephalopodaYeah, great, join VESA by paying a million and then tell me how to implement it.22:55
Anselmopretty sure hdmi can't ususally drive like, a 4k monitor at 60Hz22:55
john_cephalopodaThere is literally no open standard for digital video transmission.22:55
joacimdp22:56
john_cephalopodaIt isn't an open standard.22:56
john_cephalopoda"Open standard available to all VESA members[dubious – discuss] with an extensible standard to help broad adoption[54]"22:56
pedjajoacim, I think that's where the GbE dongle plugs in. not sure, thou22:57
joacim"discuss" doesnt mean it isnt an open standard.22:57
joacimit just means it is questioned.22:57
joacimhdmi is definitely not an open standard. and requires that you pay someone a license fee22:57
joacimdp does not require any kind of license fee22:57
joacimbut i think you do have to pay that if you want to support hdmi over dp22:57
john_cephalopodaBut I have to be a VESA member, don't I?22:57
joacimpedja: thats pretty lame. never seen such a port before22:58
joacimi rather have a more modern usb device22:58
john_cephalopoda"All new DisplayPort related standards issued by VESA will NOT be available to non-VESA members. You must join VESA to have access to these standards. Select the become a member button below."22:58
pedjajoacim, proprietary dongle :)22:58
joacimthere is 0 use in complaining about laptops not having vga. none of the monitors that i have bought recently have had vga, why should a new laptop have one22:59
joacimespecially a low powered one like that22:59
joacimif you need vga, keep your old laptop22:59
john_cephalopodaI pay 5000 to 10000 $ per year for a VESA membership. I have to be member to get the standard. That's not what I call "open".23:00
john_cephalopoda*I'd have to pay23:00
pedjaopen =! free23:00
joacimmy last computer that _need_ vga is from the turn of the millenium. my radeon 9600 has dvi23:00
pedjaISO charges a lot for actual standards too23:00
john_cephalopodaStandardisation is not working great.23:01
john_cephalopodaAt least in some areas.23:01
joacimlooking at graphics cards and laptops, everyone seems to have standardised on hdmi and dp23:01
pedjaI am curious when will Thunderbolt become more common, it became royalty-free recently, iirc23:03
john_cephalopodapedja: "An open standard is a standard that is publicly available" ~ wikipedia23:03
joacimquote the source23:04
john_cephalopodapedja: I can understand that I have to pay a fee if I want to say "This is USB-compatible!", but this is about basic _access_, which is only given to VESA members.23:04
joacimat my university, quoting wikipedia was an automatic fail.23:04
john_cephalopodaSource of the upper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard23:04
joacimnobody cares enough to dig through wikipedia to find the actual source for you23:05
joacimfind the actual source. wikipedia is not a source23:05
pedja'There is no single definition and interpretations vary with usage.'23:05
pedjaso, as always, it depends23:06
john_cephalopodaI wouldn't quote wikipedia on a scientific work. But for internet discussions where people quote HuffPost or throw in things without origin wikipedia is quite solid as a source imo.23:06
joacimnobody here quotes huffing forums23:06
joacimi remember there was big deal about wikipedia recently. an article quoted a website that quoted wikipedia as their source23:07
john_cephalopodajoacim: You Won't Believe Who Also Doesn't Quote Huffington Post Forums And Loses 10 KGs In Five Weeks!23:07
pedjacan we keep clickabity out of this channel, please?23:08
john_cephalopodaYeah, that effect is known. Has always existed. Newspaper says something, other newspaper copies it, first newspaper quotes the one that took it over.23:08
joacimThis Guy Gained 40 kg In Muscle Mass Now Get Laid Every Night23:08
john_cephalopodapedja: Incredible Ban Spoken Against IRC Member Because Of Excessive Clickbaiting, Also Superfood!23:09
john_cephalopodaLet's quote the OpenStand project, which is backed by IAB, IEEE, IETF and W3C: "Standards specifications are made accessible to all for implementation and deployment. Affirming standards organizations have defined procedures to develop specifications that can be implemented under fair terms. Given market diversity, fair terms may vary from royalty-free to fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms (FRAND)."23:12
john_cephalopodaThat's pretty close to what I understand under an open standard.23:14
john_cephalopodaAvailability to everybody, implementation under various terms.23:14
joacimyeah23:15
joacimbeing an open standard doesnt mean it have to be gratis tho23:15
joacimengineer time is expensive23:15
john_cephalopodaVESA terms cost money to even access though.23:18
pedjaSapphire Ed, when he was talking with Wendell, said that Nvidia can trivially add FreeSync support to its drivers23:18
john_cephalopoda*VESA standards23:18
john_cephalopodaSo I can't even see if the standard would make sense for my platform and what the standard contains. If I don't find some illegal way to get the full specs somewhere.23:19
pedjafirmware update for the monitors should be small too, but they want, even thou they were part of all FreeSync development/standardization23:19
pedjawill not*23:19
pedjaFreeSync is VESA standard, G-Sync isn't. OpenCL is Khronos standard, CUDA isn't. I think I see the pattern here :)23:21
joacimis a shame cuda owns so much of the market tho23:23
joacimi get that developers prefer cuda23:23
john_cephalopodaWhy are open standards shunned by some companies? Are they afraid that other companies could make better things and be a competition?23:23
joacimbut it is a shame opencl cant compete that well23:23
joacimjohn_cephalopoda: ed sapphire guy mentioned that too. if you have faith in your product, and support open standards, you will still be ok23:24
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john_cephalopodaNvidia doesn't have faith in their producs, obviously.23:31
john_cephalopodaThey also don't seem to like open-source at all.23:31
joacimi miss the old amd graphics that worked perfectly fine with a totally free driver23:31
joacimno firmware23:31
pedjaI think I read that Google is working with AMD to get their ML framework into decent shape with openCL. that will turn the tide a bit maybe23:34
joacimhope so23:35
joacimusing googles ml framework to solve google recaptcha23:35
pedjadon't know if true, but someone mentioned that AMD cards, rx500 series and Vega's, have bigger raw compute capacity then Nvidia's cards23:36
pedjathat would explain why they were so popular for cryptomining23:37
pedjaso, the hardware is there, it's "just" the matter of software catching up23:37
pedjaif you look here https://download.blender.org/institute/benchmark/latest_snapshot.html, you can compare the performance between AMD and Nvidia GPUs23:47
pedja1950x is pretty good, too :)23:48
joacimnever really let my rx 550 "stretch its legs"23:53
joacimit is decent for what i use it for. and i mostly just use it for minecraft and quake23:54
joacimdoom too if i make packages for zdoom and gzdoom =)23:54
pedjatry vkquake :)23:55
joacimvkquake doesnt have the commands quakespasm supports :(23:55
joacimwhich is a bit annoying23:55
pedjaah, yes, you mentioned that. weird23:55
joacimthere are options in the menus, but would be nice if it supported the same old gl_* commands. even if theyre just aliases23:55
joacimgl_texturemode gl_nearest_mipmap_nearest is pretty important23:56
joacimif i remember correctly, vkquake supports different water effects. dont think plain quakespasm lets me switch between gl and software water effects23:57
pedjaI am not sure that options are relevant for Vulkan23:57
joacimfirst thing that happened after you mentioned quake23:57
joacimi get killed by a shambler :(23:57
pedjaoops23:58
joacimi have vkquake on my windows system. havent looked through the config to see what commands it uses instead of gl_texturemode. because it does have settings for such things in the menus i think23:58
pedjaI mostly use it to check if the Vulkan update broke something23:59
joacimactually, vkquake do support some gl_* commands, but not all23:59

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