IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2018-10-10

frinnstbeen home all week00:12
frinnst huh00:17
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joacimI still have my socket 370 motherboard that kills wifi =)00:44
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abenzllvm takes ages to compile now09:26
abenzthose mega compiles only started appearing a year or so ago09:27
abenzprior to this a quad core was still ok for a source-based distro09:27
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ryuoACTION has an O(1) package install time.11:54
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john_cephalopodaabenz: Have you compiled chromium recently? Takes hours on an 8-threaded 4th gen i7.12:31
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: before or after the patches?12:34
ryuoi've barely noticed any differences on our laptops here but i heard desktops are worse off.12:36
john_cephalopodaWell, recently = the last year or so.12:37
john_cephalopodaIt has always taken pretty long.12:37
ryuojust wondering how much real world impact the penalties have.12:37
ryuoi figured building crap might be a good test.12:38
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: performance penalties.12:56
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: the speculative patches have performance penalties.12:56
joacimlast time i tested firefox on a quad core, it took 20-25 minutes to build12:57
joacimthat must've been 4 years ago12:57
john_cephalopodaI think ff takes a bit longer now.12:58
john_cephalopoda40 minutes or so.12:58
john_cephalopoda(If you mean 4 threads by "quad core")12:58
joacimi mean a processor with 4 cores12:59
joacimlike my i5 469012:59
john_cephalopodaMmh, yeah.13:00
joacimwhich is commonly called quad core13:01
ryuoyou ever done this before?13:28
ryuocat < a > b13:28
ryuocat < a > a13:28
ryuoor something and wonder why shell is too stupid to realize this is a problem? =p13:28
ryuoit seems like it should be an error because i can't see it ever producing a viable result.13:29
john_cephalopodabash: a: No such file or directory13:37
john_cephalopodadash: 2: cannot open a: No such file13:38
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: smart ass.13:44
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abenzjohn_cephalopoda: strange thing is this was not gradual like a few years back17:01
abenzit suddenly became the case. I'd say a couple years back a phenom ii X6 1100T would've still felt super fast on a source-based distro17:02
abenzACTION talks himself into justifying ryzen :P17:02
john_cephalopodaIt finished compiling btw.17:05
john_cephalopodareal 157m36.578s17:05
john_cephalopodaOver 2 hours, and this is an i7-4770 @ 3.4GHz17:06
john_cephalopodaUp to 3.9 GHz actually.17:06
john_cephalopoda8 threads.17:06
john_cephalopodaJust think of that! You could play Doom on some 100 MHz singlecore intel - software renderer - without issues!17:07
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abenzoh man17:08
abenzwhat about RAM17:09
abenzdoes it have enough? you are not using swap right?17:09
abenzmechanical or ssd?17:09
john_cephalopoda12 GB of RAM, mechanical.17:13
joacimamd is making sure to patch most major projects to help sell threadripper18:03
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frinnstjoacim: wow your 370 motherboard killed wifi?19:41
frinnstwe have a remote customer that rely on wifi in their offices. they have their operation in a building previously owned by Electrolux. It came with 80's microwaves that they still use19:42
frinnstwe got a ticket complaining about the network going down each day around 11:30-13:0019:43
frinnstold & leaky microwaves are fun :-)19:43
AnselmoI once was in a house like that, had an non existant ethernet network and whenever anyone used a microwave no one could use the wifi19:44
Anselmowhich was, . . . .rather frustrating. . .19:45
AnselmoACTION sighs at people who like wifi19:46
frinnstI was asked once how we could operate a datacenter underground. How do the wifi reach down?19:47
john_cephalopodaHeh, heard this story from somebody who lived in the approach line of an airport: His wifi dropped out from time to time. The reason was some old Russian cargo plane which used a 2.4 GHz approach radar. When wifi detects it, it apparently automatically turns off for some time.19:47
AnselmoI think you just uhh, dig a tunnel and maybe have a good directional antenna ^^19:47
john_cephalopodaAnselmo: Lasers, duh! :รพ19:47
Anselmois that still wifi ?19:48
john_cephalopodaIt's wireless.19:48
Anselmocause if you can use lasers you might as well use fibreoptics in my opinion, and that doesnt sound like wifi :P19:48
Anselmoare fibre optics wires or are they fibres . . . hrm19:48
john_cephalopodaRight, wifi is limited in frequency...19:49
john_cephalopodaBut wait - what if you use a medium where light moves slower?19:49
Anselmocould you get it to have the same wavelenght as something RF ?19:49
jaeger <-- llvm builds on the threadripper look exactly like I expected they would19:51
john_cephalopodac = lambda*f. At same frequency the wavelength will shrink when you reduce c.19:51
joacimfrinnst: yeah it is strange. i have another motherboard of the same brand and model, and that one does not kill wifi at all.19:54
joacimdo they still ues that microwave? =)19:55
Anselmothats the real thing to ask ^^19:55
john_cephalopodaLet's say we got a red laser with a wavelength of 750 nm and a frequency of 484 THz (in air). Now let's put that down to 2.4GHz. 2.4e9 Hz * 750e-9 m = 1800 m/s.19:59
john_cephalopodaThus we need a material with a refraction index of approximately 166551.3655555555620:02
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john_cephalopodaYeah, the highest refractive index that lets through visible light has an ri of 2.6520:14
AnselmoI dont recall much of optics, could you create a fun arrangement of lenses to finagle that to work20:15
Anselmowait no certainly not20:17
john_cephalopodaRefractive index is c/v where c is light speed in vacuum and v is light speed in the medium.20:20
john_cephalopodaNo matter what you do, you won't get it slower than about 1/2 c.20:21
john_cephalopodaAlthough - you could use some laser that doesn't work in the visible spectrum. Maybe x-ray.20:21
john_cephalopodaBut then you could as well use a microwave laser with 2.4GHz frequency and air :D20:21
abenzjaeger: diminishing returns22:14
abenzbut upto 16 not bad22:15
joacimdepends on what youre building too i think22:18
joacimi hear building linux gets noticeably quicker on systems with high thread counts22:18
jaegerabenz: yeah, the previous tests showed similar results22:51
jaegerif you've not seen those,
jaegerthe weird hump in the 24-thread test is, I think, due to disk latency22:51
jaegerIt's the only one that wasn't done on SSD22:52
jaegerI might run that one again sometime22:54
joacimmy project is just build a kernel23:04
joacimbit worthless tho, since the kernel have grown over the years23:05
joacimthink i should standardize with both kernel version and config23:05
joacimprobably 5 years since i started doing this23:06
abenz1700x should be -j17 ?23:06
joacimit should be as it says23:07
joacimthat was from the days when those cpus had issues23:07
joacimi intentionally ran at -j923:07
abenzjaeger: what did you use to generate those graphs?23:07
abenzjoacim: whats the current build time on your TR?23:08
abenzare they all using a similar .config ?23:08
joacimi like how a 1.2 GHz low voltage xeon is faster than a 2.6 GHz sandy bridge laptop cpu =)23:08
joacimevolved from the same config23:09
joacimadded some things over the years like iptables and such23:09
joacimi dont really add more drives than i need23:09
abenzyea. I remember back in the day, I used the stock crux .config as template and disabled a lot of drivers I didnt need23:10
joacimI should add a "yes I know it says -j9" to the file, since everyone that sees it comments on it =)23:10
jaegerabenz: gnuplot23:15
abenzACTION reads about gnuplot23:16
abenzso you fed a text file that generated that? can I get the file?23:16
jaegersure, looks like this:
jaegerI've been meaning to make it all more programmatic so I can run it on multiple systems easily but haven't taken the time23:19
jaegerthe csv file isn't really csv, it's space-separated :P each line has the number of threads and the time in seconds, like "1 2722"23:20
abenzjaeger: cheers23:20
jaegerI run the build 5 times for each thread count and average the times23:20
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