IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2018-10-26

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pankeriniWhat made you pick CRUX over other distributions?00:20
joacimsimplicity. i felt other systems were way more complicated than they needed to be, without providing any kind of benefits00:21
joacimpackage management and Pkgfiles that I could figure out on a quick glance.00:21
joaciminstead of figuring out ebuilds and all its features00:22
Worksterminimal abstraction, easy to see what does what. the distro does not get in the way.00:34
pankeriniYou can't say that with the many popular distributions.00:38
Worksterslackware you can00:39
Worksterbut not many as you said00:39
joacimi like alpine too, but crux seems more suitable for a fully featured systems. alpine do a lot to conserve disk space which is nice for a small limited system like a container, vm, embedded board, but annoying when you want to read a man page00:59
Anselmore: simplicity, it also seems a lot different some distros, compare like, debian packages and crux ports, or compare like, the giant interface for handling gentoo configuration stuff to crux' package managers . . . .01:01
Anselmomost arent this basic. . .. .01:01
AnselmoI havent much used alpine but it also sounds like it uses a weird setup that makes it dificult to individually copy and move ports around (I  dont use alpine much, so correct me if this is way off)01:01
joacimnot sure if i understand01:04
AnselmoI got the impression that you couldnt just copy ports between systems   ?01:05
joacimi think the thing i like the least about alpine is their install script01:05
Anselmoahm01:06
joacimit is annoying, and fails due to stupid reasons01:06
joacimim not sure what you mean by copy parts. its the same as any other distro i think01:06
joacimexcept they aim for small, and have a diskless mode01:07
Anselmouhh, then I misunderstood what I read perhaps01:07
joacimgot in on my rpi, and it works well there01:08
joacimbut it seems like packages arent updated as often as the plain amd64 version01:08
Anselmohmmm01:10
joacimoh. a big annoying thing with other distros is that server software often pull in xorg and gui components01:11
Anselmoha01:12
joacimi dont know about debian and centos, but openindiana and others that i have tried end up with xorg for no reason when i just want some smb shares01:12
Anselmoha01:13
pankeriniI appreciate the answers, I've been eager to try CRUX since last year but never got around it.01:18
joacimwell worth a try =)01:18
ryuoI recently got CRUX booting on OVH ARM servers.01:22
ryuomain difference is how they boot.01:22
Anselmo:301:24
ryuoWhat?01:24
ryuoI'll probably be using Ubuntu ARM for the final install, but I figured I should try this out.01:25
Anselmouh, weird smiley face, meaning something like ''that sounds cool''01:25
ryuoGive someone some idea how to do it if they want to rent one of the ARM servers too.01:25
joacimfor me :3 is more like a blank faced smile01:27
joacimlike i have no thoughts, just there and kinda smiling01:28
Anselmoo01:28
joacima dumb cat-like smile01:28
Anselmox_x01:28
joacimthats just how i use it tho :301:28
Anselmo:3301:28
joacimi try to understand other peoples smileys in their contexts01:28
AnselmoI feel like there's enough overlap that its not too hard to keep track of. . . .01:29
pankeriniIt reminds me of the "Jesus Christ it's a lion get in the Car!" comic.01:29
joacimryuo: did you fiddle it through an installed system? or did you use ovhs rescue debian boot?01:30
ryuojoacim: OVH rescue. that's basically how CRUX ARM is installed anyway.01:30
ryuothere's no regular installer like for x86.01:30
ryuoit takes some expertise to get it running.01:30
ryuoright now i'm waiting for pitillo to do something so I can document it on the wiki ro so.01:31
ryuojoacim: my notes: http://dpaste.com/0X0JPGN01:31
joacimi guess one should make note of the IP and other network settings before installing crux01:34
ryuonot necessary. it's all documented in the OVH API.01:34
ryuoI mean, if you forget, you can look it up for your specific server.01:34
pankeriniThe last part about the kernel is neat.01:35
ryuoi'm basically rebadging the OVH kernel since ARM kernels are usually system specific.01:35
ryuoand i don't know how to upgrade it to something newer.01:36
ryuothe best i could do on short notice.01:36
ryuothe main thing that i like about the x86 servers is i generally don't need to care about hardware details when usign kernels.01:37
ryuoone size fits all for x86 kernels.01:37
ryuostill the ARM servers OVH offers are a very good price for what you get.01:37
ryuo250 megabits, unmetered. 2TB of storage.01:37
ryuo2GB of RAM.01:38
ryuo100GB of backup FTP access.01:38
ryuoall for $5.99 a motnh01:38
ryuomonth*01:38
ryuoMain drawback is RAM and CPU.01:38
ryuoARM is generally slow, 1/2 to 1/3 a low end x86 CPU.01:39
pankeriniGood enough for static pages, I think01:39
ryuoOr small dynamic pages.01:39
ryuoit's optimized for storage purposes.01:39
ryuoKimSufi is OVH's line of old but affordable x86 servers.01:40
ryuothough i'd honestly avoid most of them unless they're AMD or an intel atom that's immune to meltdown.01:40
ryuothe main problem is finding them on sale. Many times they're sold out.01:41
ryuopankerini: if you were looking to rent a server space for some purpose, i'd suggest a VPS. they're more beginner friendly.01:41
ryuoi've only use OVH VPS though.01:42
ryuonamely because you get a cheap ass KVM if you really need it.01:42
ryuoACTION coughs.01:42
ryuoOVH doesn't offer KVM for their regular servers unless you pay a small fortune.01:43
joacimsoyoustart is nice too. more powerful hardware, more than one drive that you can raid1 if you want01:43
joacimsome ssd options too01:43
ryuoSYS is the one that offers the storage ARM servers.01:43
pankeriniI've used Hertzner only, mostly because of friend recommendations01:43
joacimand they do have opterons in the mix, if you care about that stuff01:44
joacimyeah a friend was nagging me about hertzner too. havent tried their stuff yet01:44
joacimlooks decent tho01:44
ryuodoes hertzner hertz now?01:44
joacimhetzner i mean01:45
ryuo... Europe hosting it seems.01:45
pankeriniThe name is confusing, but I haven't had any troubles so far.01:45
joacimi dont know how they are if you mess up your firewall or remote access01:46
joacimsoyoustart can be annoying if you need a remote kvm01:46
ryuoKimSufi doesn't even have KVM.01:46
ryuossh is literally your only option/01:46
ryuoIf you lock yourself out, you have to use the control panel to reboot into rescue.01:47
ryuoso, it's why i wouldn't recommend it. you'll be flying blind and if you aren't familiar with hardware...01:49
joacimi use ramnode for cheap stuff. got their cheapest vps for now01:49
ryuoyou'll run into a lot more issues that would be easier to solve with a KVM.01:49
joacimalso if i mess up, there is a vnc option that doesnt cost anything extra01:50
joacimi guess most VPS hosts is like that01:50
ryuoyea... it's the dedicated ones that require more work to offer that with.01:50
ryuoOFC, dedicated has its own advantages.01:51
ryuofor one, you don't share physical hardware.01:51
joacimi would like to try out buyvm too. dedicated cpu cores / shares, but they're always sold out01:51
ryuothe BSD hypervisor?01:51
joacimhttps://buyvm.net/01:51
ryuoOh.01:51
joacimbhyve is another topic. i hear there is interest with omnios to port bhyve to that and other illumos distros.01:52
joacimsince their kvm port got old, and getting it up to date would require even more porting effort01:52
ryuoseems like our OSes keep importing tech from others.01:53
ryuoLinux has a bit of NIH.01:53
ryuoHow many iterations of firewall interfaces have we gone through?01:53
ryuoAlso, ALSA.01:53
ryuoAt least that one hasn't gone through major revisions.01:53
joacimhttp://81.4.101.23/01:54
joacimturns out i did do something with my VPS01:54
joacimi made an index.html01:54
ryuoHuh. I got an error. Apparently your web page isn't apologetic enough. =p01:55
joacimoh?01:55
ryuoJoke.01:55
ryuo<.<01:55
joacimoh =)01:55
ryuoAnd your web server reveals itself.01:55
ryuoServer: lighttpd/1.4.4501:55
joacimyeh01:55
joacimnot sure if there is a point to even try to hide that kind of stuff01:57
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nweis someone in herer good on makefile? why doesnt this work ifeq ($(GW),$(default_gw)) @export http_proxy=<ip> endif05:34
tilmanuh05:42
tilmanuse a make variable instead of trying to set a shell variable05:43
tilmani don't think @export will do what you might think it does ;)05:43
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john_cephalopodapedja: You have brought various packages from 6c37 over into one of your repos, haven't you? Any chance they will go into contrib eventually?10:49
joacimsome of these repositories are surprisingly large10:59
john_cephalopodaI'd like contrib to become some thing similar to AUR.11:04
john_cephalopodaHaving 8 packages for i3 that all differ a tiny bit isn't that great.11:06
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joacimalso confusing number of duplicated ports11:08
joacimwhen i made my port for dtach, there were no others afaik11:08
joacimsince i made mine, 4 others showed up, including 6c3711:09
john_cephalopodaThere is an i3 port in contrib, but instead of separating the dependencies, it bulk installs it.11:10
john_cephalopodaFor example libev, which is in contrib anyway.11:12
joacimthe old one i used didnt do that11:17
john_cephalopodaThe one in my repo (jmf) just ships all the dependencies.11:20
john_cephalopoda* has all dependencies in the "Dependencies:" list and all deps in contrib or jmf.11:20
joacimthat's a lot cleaner11:21
john_cephalopodaLooks like the i3 in contrib is by jue.11:25
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frinnstI'm torn. denendencies are evil11:55
frinnstinstalling  a bunch of deps to test a new WM is annoying. just having one port leaves it a bit cleaner11:55
frinnstbut sure, silly if you already have the deps installed11:56
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joacimi think it is a bit silly in this case11:56
frinnstfair enough11:58
joacimthos dependencies aren't exactly unique to i311:58
joacimat least for me11:58
frinnstI'm a fluxbox lifer so I dont care :>12:00
pedjaI am perhaps conservative/old, but I really don't see the appeal http://fluxbox.org/screenshots/screenshots_full/screenshot_tenner.png12:08
pedjait's an acquired taste, I guess :)12:09
joacimi used it a lot in the past on systems that didnt have xfce12:09
pedjaone of the live dvds I used in the past had it as a default. interesting experience12:11
joacimhttp://www.fvwm.org/screenshots/12:13
joacimpeople do some neat stuff with fvwm12:13
pedjar/unixpr0n is full of them :)12:13
pedjaxfce with Numix theme/icons is as far as I am ever going to go12:15
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ronin7zanyone who has been using steam and steamplay recently? last time i tried i had some issues13:25
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: libzip: 0.11.2 -> 1.5.113:51
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frinnstpedja: my setup is not riced like that :-)14:13
pedjaheh14:16
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frinnsthttps://github.com/yswery/PHP-DNS-SERVER/blob/master/README.md14:23
frinnstwow14:23
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jaegerheh... that's kinda funny15:16
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pedjaanyone tried nvidia binary driver on 4.19?16:12
pedja410.7316:12
joacimhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-DC-Power-Adapter-12V-1-5A-with-EU-US-UK-plug-5-5mm-x-2-1mm-connector/32329675338116:43
joacimi think this is the kind of attachments the brick for my kvm switch used16:43
joacimtempted to buy it just to skip using an adapter, but 0 feedback16:44
john_cephalopodaOnly nouveau, no binary here.16:48
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ronin7zsoo uhm , does the firefox-bin from opt come with PA or Alsa?16:51
joacimI think that one depends on PA16:57
joacimas thats what upstream defaults at16:57
john_cephalopodaDoesn't list PA in the deps though.16:57
ronin7zbecasue u know, im compiling firefox-pa now and its taking a little long16:57
john_cephalopodafrinnst is the maintainer.16:57
joacimonly takes 90 minutes on my sandybridge i517:01
ronin7zi wonder how long it takes on my sky lake i717:02
ronin7zskylake*17:02
joacimI remember it took 20 minutes or so on my i5 4690, but that was a long time ago17:03
joacim4 years maybe17:03
ronin7zi imagine firefox only got bigger in the meantime17:03
ronin7zunlucky17:03
ronin7z670/2732, slow and steady wins the race17:05
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joacimi guess it doesn't depend on pulseaudio since there are some that prefer to keep PA away from their system17:05
joacimand those might want to use apulse instead17:05
ronin7zi would try apulse but i remmeber having alot of trouble with sound in wine when i tried that last time17:08
joacimi still get scratchy audio when i adjust volume in some applications with pulseaudio17:10
joacimi think in a few years, when PA will start to be perfectly fine on my systems too17:10
joacimsomeone will make a replacement, which all distros for some reason switch to over night17:10
ronin7zi mean, if it works i wouldnt mind lol17:11
joacimgiving me another 5-10 years of shit that doesn't quite work right =)17:11
ronin7zI never really have any problems with pulseaudi otho17:11
pankeriniThen it will be replaced by pipewire17:11
joacimi can live with scratchy audio while adjusting volume tho. that issue is minor17:11
ronin7zonly thing that has me worried for crux right now is hoping steam will work properly17:11
ronin7zbut if all else fails i can just run a snap or something17:11
pankeriniI know there's sndio for Linux, but I wish more applications support it out-of-the-box17:12
ronin7zi saw that jaeger game through with the wine-staging package which is amazing17:12
ronin7zsndio?17:12
joacimsteam seems like the kind of thing that should ship in its own app bundle, with its own libraries and dependencies contained17:12
joacimi guess they already do that17:12
joacimonly games i play on my linux systems are quake and doom.17:13
pankeriniIt's the OpenBSD's audio server17:13
ronin7zohh, ye ive never used bsd before17:13
ronin7zseems interesting tho but i havent found a excuse for trying it yet17:13
pankeriniVoid Linux has support for it17:13
ronin7zvoid linux is a nice distro, i really dislike their irc tho17:14
ronin7zjoacim: why only those 2? u never tried steamplay?17:14
joacimits mostly those two that i care about playing17:15
joacimgot some other games installed too, but i never play them17:15
joacimi mostly just boot windows whenever i want to play something new and AAA17:15
ronin7zahhh sure, steam play has been super nice for me , for native and AAA17:15
ronin7zi removed my windows partition as well :)17:16
joacimwant to try out PCIe passthrough again (been lazy about it), but online game anticheat react to that stuff17:16
ronin7zits pretty easy to hide that17:17
joacimi hear CSGO players sometimes get kicked from matches because of it17:17
joacimdont know if it is enough to hide the hypervizoer17:17
ronin7zi used passthrough before steamplay came out17:17
joacimif the anticheat just reacts to certain quirks17:17
ronin7zi think you can just set - KVM STATE = HIDDEN17:17
ronin7zor something like that17:17
joacimalso rockstar is really anal about bans in gtao17:17
ronin7zhmmm might be, games ive been playing are mainly stuff like nier automata , TW3 and dragon quest 1117:18
ronin7zwhich all work great17:18
ronin7zalso been playing a ton of wow through wine + dxvk which has been smooth as well17:18
joacimi love nier automata17:23
ronin7zi havent finished it yet17:23
ronin7zam like 20 hours in17:23
joacimseems a bit out of date maybe, but it is a lot of fun. it is nice to see games that panders to my interests once in a while =)17:23
ronin7zjoacim: nier automata btw is one of the platinum steamplay games for linux17:24
ronin7zdid i discover a fellow weeb ? :eyes:17:24
joacimi intended to get all the endings, but for now, i just did the playthroughs to see A2s ending17:24
joacimI've been a weeb for at least 20 years17:24
ronin7zi have such a long way to go, A2 is hot tho17:24
ronin7zive been a fan of anime and stuff since like 14 so that makes a little short of 10 years now17:25
ronin7zyou played persona 5 ?17:26
joacimhavent played any of those games17:26
joacimor from that developer17:26
ronin7zhmmm , i think the games are really good17:27
ronin7zthen again my experience is limited to almost finishing p5 and playing p4 for like 10 hours17:27
joacimdont remember if one of those ever showed up on the wii u17:27
ronin7znah they were sony games17:28
joacimthats my newest console. bought it for fatal frame / project zero17:28
ronin7zyou can emulate them perfectly on linux tho17:28
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SiFuhthanks pedja Magnum PI is ok17:48
SiFuh][_R_][: thanks needed your script. Even removing KDE still had issues since some used QT;-)17:49
SiFuhyour script cleaned it up real quick17:49
][_R_][No biggie17:52
][_R_][I probably do some WTFy things in it though, but it should be readable enough that you could extend it17:52
SiFuhI understood it17:52
SiFuhit was done good17:53
][_R_][\o/17:54
SiFuh:-P18:14
SiFuhyou code good18:14
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ronin7zcompiling rust is a slow process huh18:56
john_cephalopodaHeh18:57
john_cephalopodaThings get bigger and bigger.18:57
ronin7zworst thing is that i dont even know what its needed for lol19:01
john_cephalopodaFirefox needs Rust now.19:01
ronin7zdammit19:01
ronin7zi wonder if there is a good browser with the same kinda level of functions as firefox has that isnt chrome19:02
john_cephalopodaNope.19:08
john_cephalopodaEither you want software that isn't GBs of source, takes only a few minutes to compile and has sensible dependencies OR you want a web browser.19:09
john_cephalopodaCan't have both.19:09
][_R_][Uzbl or Vivaldi?19:09
ronin7zjohn_cephalopoda: sadly that makes sense19:10
ronin7zmaybe i will try suckless' browser, surf lol19:10
john_cephalopodaronin7z: That one is horrible.19:11
john_cephalopodaIt is basically a webkit example application. Last time I checked it used 100% CPU.19:11
ronin7zor i need some kind off browser with more keybind support, cause the trackpad on my laptop is aboslute shit19:11
jaegerI've played persona 2, 3, 4, and 519:13
jaegerfun games, good style19:13
ronin7zyee i really loved five19:13
ronin7zi never finished it tho19:13
ronin7zbecause i picked the wrong waifu, so i have been at the last palace for months lol19:13
jaegerheh19:13
ronin7zmakoto is boring ya know19:14
ronin7zoutside of that tho, the game is amazing . the palaces are cool, story is really fun and the combat is sooo goood19:14
john_cephalopodaThere are so many web technologies, and browsers are expected to do them ALL.19:17
ronin7zhonestly i just need to be able to watch youtube, twitch anime and check reddit19:18
john_cephalopodaInstead of just creating some static content server19:18
john_cephalopoda-side, they overstess the server by sending 10 MB of JS at every site load.19:18
john_cephalopodaThere is seriously little JS that makes sense. I can't remember any right now.19:20
ronin7zi wouldnt know about all that19:23
ronin7zi dont do any coding19:23
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jaegeralso, I've used steamplay to play a couple of games, mainly dishonored lately. seems to work fine19:38
ronin7zohh nice, thats good then19:38
ronin7zunlucky that i still need wine for blizzard games but oh well19:38
ronin7zjaeger: oh right, thanks for the wine-staging package :)20:05
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jaegerno problem20:23
ronin7zi remember asking about it a while ago and u came through20:24
ronin7zthats really cool20:24
ronin7zthe openal mirror is down btw20:26
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ronin7zonodera on the same provider as me , hiii :)20:31
onoderahi ronin7z20:34
onoderaye :)20:34
ronin7zhow has xs4all been treating you? i was thinking of switching actually20:35
ronin7zbut they seem concistent20:35
cruxbot[opt.git/3.4]: nvidia: updated to version 410.7320:37
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.4]: nvidia-32: updated to version 410.7320:37
onoderaronin7z: actually my father decided on this provider and I never really looked into the different providers, but xs4all seems to be pretty good, especially when it comes to privace and rights20:43
onoderaI think it was the only providor (and ziggo) that got banned from serving thepiratebay because they protested the block or something20:44
ronin7zyeee that does make sense20:44
onoderaalthough that was a few years ago, I don't really jnow what they are up to now20:44
ronin7zand yee outages are really rare which is pretty good20:44
ronin7zlike ziggo might have been faster at the time, but xs4all is like never down20:45
ronin7zits pretty great20:45
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ronin7zso weird question, but is the only way to update the kernel by getting it from kernel.org?21:53
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Ronin7zhmm seems like im having some problems with my graphicsstack22:32
jaegerRonin7z: you could make a kernel package if you want, but we don't offer an official one currently22:33
jaegerSo usually getting it and compiling it yourself is the way to go22:33
Ronin7zyee i was trying that earlier while installing and i got some errors22:33
Ronin7zi wonder if the graphic issues i have right now stem from the kernel or something else22:34
Ronin7zi think it has to do with llvm22:34
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Ronin7zthis is the output if i run glxinfo -  https://paste.pound-python.org/show/Nev0XT85aZfL1qWaXBcw/22:36
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Ronin7zi tried rebuilding mesa after installing llvm22:36
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Ronin7zseems like wow through wine is working, just not steam. might be because i tried manually installing openal because the mirror for the dep was down22:45
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Ronin7znice connect =)22:48
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