IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2018-12-08

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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: password-store: updated to 1.7.302:22
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.4]: clink: update source and url site name change, code cleanup04:37
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joacimpedja: I'm giving a serial console to everything in virsh =)
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pedjajoacim, nice :) never occurred to me to do it.11:44
cruxbot[core.git/3.4]: libdevmapper: update to 1.02.15412:18
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joacimpedja: occurs to me every time i use my laptop. i haven't installed virt manager yet, so the serial console is a lot more convenient =)17:31
joacimthan getting up to do what i needed to do at my desktop17:31
pedjayou could use virt-viewer after you start the domain in virsh17:33
pedjaI use either that or remmina17:34
joacimthat is still something i need to install on my laptop17:34
pedjafair enough17:35
pedjawhat do you run on that laptop? fedora?17:36
pedjathere is a virt-viewer port in my virt repo, you know :)17:36
joacimi know =) havent bothered with installing that yet17:36
joacimbeen meaning to install virt manager17:37
pedjain case of issues, yell17:37
joacimangry reviews on yelp17:37
pedjaI am glad to see that libvirt devs fixed the behaviour of the previous version17:42
pedjabuilds fine with previous version already installed, shits its pants on start because it linked the now non-existing libs :)17:43
pedjanow just fails straight up. much less surprises17:44
joacimalso figured out how to use virsh as a regular user17:46
joacimuse virsh -c, not virsh connect17:46
pedja'-c' is '-connect'17:46
joacimalso export LIBVIRT_DEFAULT_URI17:46
joacimi know17:46
joacimconnect isnt tho17:46
pedjayou can set default uri in libvirt.conf17:47
joacimtried that17:47
joacimit threw up errors. instead of figuring out why it was broken, i just used that variable instead17:48
joacimplease do tell how to do it right =)17:48
pedjajoacim, that's on fedora box?17:49
pedjalet me do some digging thru the docs :)17:49
pedjaso the issue is that you can't run virsh as a regular user, right?17:50
joacimi can now17:50
pedjawithout exported env?17:50
pedjawith just regular virsh, no options passed to it?17:51
joacimas root it would connect to the default qemu:///system, but not as user. after i set that variable to qemu:///system i can use it as a regular user17:51
joacimalso i tried to use connect before, instead of -c, not knowing connect is more for the command line interface of virsh17:51
pedjaafter you enter virsh cli, what does 'uri' return?17:52
pedjajoacim, set default_uri in .config/libvirt/libvirt.conf17:54
pedjaunset env variable, if any17:55
joacimthe option i found for libvirt.conf was a bit more complicated than that :(18:03
joacimthat works =)18:04
joacimi dont know why there is so much bad advice on the internet. just makes it harder to get a working system18:05
joacimseen lots of new people just give up and go back to windows due to poorly written guides18:05
john_cephalopodajoacim: Just set /usr/bin and /boot to 777.18:06
john_cephalopodaI think the main reasons why people don't just switch is because some things in Linux are not comfortable enough.18:07
pedjaI've heard technical writers, designers, etc offer help to projects, only to be rejected because who the fuck knows why18:07
john_cephalopodaPeople want a box that they turn on and that just runs. They never want to update software. They want to download anything. They want no antivirus (because that slows down the computer).18:07
pedjasad, really18:08
joacimset everything to 777 reminds me of this
pedjaI bet frinnst heard a lot of those, dealing with web devs and all :)18:09
joacimpedja: seen projects whose maintainers and users pride themselves on their lack of documentation. makes them more expert and anyone that cant figure it out is stupid18:09
joacimi can see where those dektop users are coming from. i think it would be better for desktop linux to take a route more like os x tbh18:10
john_cephalopodajoacim: I don't get the article. Why should it be dangerous to run npm as root?18:10
pedjathat's called gatekeeping, iirc18:10
pedja'look at me, I am so leet!'18:11
joacima base stable os, with something like the minimalist principle of omnios18:11
joacimuser software would be installed as self contained bundles instead, maybe appimage is that18:11
pedjayou are talking about CRUX, basically :)18:12
joacimcentos or ubuntu lts with no extra packages, and appimage on top18:12
joacimjohn_cephalopoda: because npm as root can hose your system18:12
pedjaopensuse has a project like that. r/o system base with appimages for apps, afaik18:12
joacim <- this happened earlier this year18:13
joacimsame thing can happen with crux too, with a malicious pkgfile =)18:13
pedjaor post-install18:13
joacimi think their minimalist principle is a bit different than i am used to with crux or arch18:14
joacimmaybe people on this side of the fence just choose different words18:14
john_cephalopodajoacim: When I can't trust the package manager to not do rogue stuff when installing from official repos, what can I trust then?18:14
joacimcould also just be a honest mistake18:14
joacimeve online nuked the boot files on windows once18:14
joacima long time ago18:15
joacimthat was just a typo or something18:15
pedjaWindows update nuked zip files recently, iirc18:15
john_cephalopodaHmm, per-user applications...18:15
joacimalso npm can mess with files already tracked by rpm/deb/ports, so you can end up with a bit of a mess if you run npm/luarocks/gem without defining the prefix18:16
john_cephalopodaMultiple package managers are a stupid idea anyway.18:16
joacimpedja: windows should be a proper exclusion zone by now18:16
pedjanpm, pip, gem...18:16
john_cephalopodadocker has its own pm, too, iirc.18:17
john_cephalopodaAlso haskell (cargo or something?)18:17
joacimvirsh freecell made me think it came with solitaire18:17
joacimbut it is anything but18:17
joacimwouldnt be surprised if it did. lots of projects ship with games etc.18:18
joacimzsh comes with tetris =)18:18
john_cephalopodaemacs comes with tetris and more.18:18
pedjacomes in handy when you resilver the pool, I guess18:19
pedjaah. zsh, not zfs. sorry18:19
joacimif it is raidz, you get a lot of time for solitaire18:19
pedjaone of the vendors is testing 16tb hd. soon to hit the stores18:20
joacimpedja:  $ virsh uri18:21
joacimlooks like it doesnt use the proper uri when i defined that in my libvirt.conf18:22
joacimshould be qemu:///system18:22
pedjatry restarting libvirtd, perhaps?18:23
joacimthis is a user setting tho18:23
pedjaworks for me[tm]18:24
joacimwhat does virsh uri say?18:24
pedjauri_default = "qemu:///system" set in user libvirt.conf, 'virsh uri' 'qemu://system'18:25
pedjasetting it in global libvirt.conf should work, too, I think. tbh, idk18:29
joacimglobal one is 600, so the user cant read it18:31
joacimwindows 10 still crashes when i choose a cpu model fancier than a core2duo18:32
joacimeven if i use the host cpu setting18:32
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frinnstpedja: you have a port for virt-viewer, right?20:29
frinnstwhere is it?20:29
pedjain my virt repo -->
pedjaremmina is cool, too. tabs and all that jazz20:35
pedjavnc.spice,rdp iirc20:37
frinnstplaying with ovirt20:38
frinnstaavmf-bin is a 404 :-)20:41
pedjaindeed it is. yay mirrors :)20:43
frinnstnevermind, didnt need it :-)20:46
pedjait's uefi for arm20:47
pedjabut I need to fix the links anyway, that mirror shut down, apparently20:47
pedjathanks for letting me know :)20:48
joacimhavent seen nx talked about in well over a decade20:59
joacimpeople use that still?20:59
joacimthanks for remmina btw. was looking for something like that, and ended up with rocket depot21:01
frinnstovirt looks pretty neat btw, esxi + vcenter on the cheap21:02
pedjawell, with RH^WIBM behind it, it can only get better ;)21:03
joacimi've been eyeing up xcp-ng myself21:03
pedjaxen, the new generation?21:04
pedjanever used that one21:05
pedjafrinnst, can you compare it something like Proxmox?21:06
pedjait to*21:06
pedjaI toyed with the idea to package ovirt at one point, but it's too RH-ish, iirc21:08
frinnstno, never used proxmox21:08
frinnstoh right, windows server 2019 is out21:13
joacimpedja: narrated by patrick stewart21:13
pedjaJean-Luc Picard, tyvm21:17
pedjathere will be a new ST series with him, btw21:18
frinnstlet me guess, a prequel?21:19
joacima young jean-luc picard, played by patrick stewart21:19
pedjaunknown atm21:19
frinnstoh, was expecting a 17 year old american to be cast21:19
frinnstTIL the kernel "kvmconfig" enables wireless drivers21:20
pedjais this partially broken in FF for anyone else? no images21:23
pedjaworks fine in chrome21:23
frinnstworks for me21:24
pedjaimages and all? weird.21:25
pedjaeven with disabled uOrigin/Matrix21:26
john_cephalopodaWorks for me, pedja21:28
john_cephalopodaIn firefox 63.0.321:28
frinnstbtw firefox 64 should be out soon. with that I'll drop the opt/firefox and opt/firefox-pa ports and only firefox-bin will remain21:29
pedjathey are up to rc14?21:31
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john_cephalopodafrinnst: Ew.21:31
frinnstjohn_cephalopoda: agreed. but less eeew than rust, clang, nodejs21:32
pedjaI'd use your bin port, but you remove Pocket extension from it :)21:32
frinnstfuck pocket and all their other crap21:32
joacimi think i poured too much21:32
pedjainto yourself or the glass?21:33
joacimfor now it is just in the glass21:33
joacimwill be into myself in a bit21:33
pedjabeer, wine, whiskey, bourbon, some weird .no drink?21:33
frinnstlutfisk smoothie21:34
joacimthis si whisky21:34
joacimsomething oban21:34
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joacimtheir 14 year old21:34
joacimalso have a "local" akevitt, but i think i'll have to give that to my brother for his birthday21:35
joacimi'll keep it if he tells me he wants a hat or something =)21:36
pedja' lutfisk is dried fish which has been rehydrated using lye.' wth21:36
joacimi hear it tastes nice21:36
frinnstevery summer I look up americans trying it for the first time on youtube21:37
frinnstalways hilarious21:37
frinnstif you like wathing people vomit that is21:37
joacimi do that with surstrømming =)21:37
frinnstyes that was what i was thinking21:38
frinnsti get our disgusting habits mixed up21:38
joacimeating lye might be more sanitary21:39
joacimnever tried it myself21:39
frinnstlutfisk, yes. surstr�mming no21:40
joacimsupposedly you're supposed to crack the can in a bucket of water21:40
pedjafrinnst, why in the summer? that's when the most tourists try it?21:44
joacimthey celebrate with surstrømming during their summer solstice i think21:45
joacimsørstrømming and akevitt21:46
pedjawhen I was in Italy, I drank espresso and ate pizza most of the time there21:46
pedjaif I ever visit Scandinavia, I might need to re-evaluate that 'eat what the natives eat' decision :)21:47
pedjaunlikely, thou. it's too fucking far away :)21:48
pedjainteresting. when joacim writes something in those funny letters of yours, they display fine. when frinnst does that, I get some weird question marks instead of the letters21:51
joacimwould make more sense if it was the other way around21:52
joacimon this system my irc client is on, i have to force unicode with tmux21:52
pedjaSource Sans should display them fine21:54
joacimmaybe your issue is just letters with umlauts? does ö work from me?21:54
joacimmust be that 1 Gbps internet21:55
joacimworks on my computer22:03
john_cephalopodafrinnst: I'm using a source-based distribution to get binaries shipped? ;)22:07
joacimreally like this sb 801 so far. easy to work with, and things looks nice with little effort22:17
joacimone of the standoffs were crossthreaded tho, so had to fix that22:17
joacimthe fan controller only takes plain old 12V fans, no pwm control22:18
joacimbut the controller itself can be controlled by pwm22:18
pedjafrinnst, nope :) what's the unicode value for that letter?22:26
pedjaI am looking at glyphs mapped in Source Code font that I use with hexchat22:29
pedjaI see (U+FFFD) instead22:35
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frinnstjohn_cephalopoda: well the alternative is chromium only or no browser at all22:41
frinnstor another firefox maintainer22:41
john_cephalopodasurf is the best browser! ;þ22:44
john_cephalopoda(It's horrible)22:44
pedjacrux is diy, after all. if you don't like something, fork it :)22:50
pedjalook at it this way. if this old and stupid velociraptor can package a bunch of crap, which works (most of the time), it will be a breeze for your bright, young minds22:57
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pedjaI've been using ff binary for years, but I will say good riddance when rust gets dumped from opt. it will make ISO much smaller, too :)23:03
pedjaprovided it gets dumped, because fscking librsvg library depends on it23:05
john_cephalopodaWhat is librsvg used for anyway?23:13
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john_cephalopodaHmm, I can't see rust in librsvg's deps?23:14
john_cephalopodaI can only see cbindgen -> firefox and thunderbird as deps23:15
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frinnstjohn_cephalopoda: librsvg in crux is unmaintained. the new upstream version has been rebuilt in rust23:24
frinnstbut not the version currently in our repos23:25
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frinnstahhh the joys of running btrfs on an ancient centos-kernel: BTRFS warning (device dm-4): csum failed ino 810 off 9962815488 csum 35101920 expected csum 125810914823:34
joacimi dont get why important projects jump on these meme language bandwagons23:36
joacimbetter to keep it plain and simple. better for the user, but might not be as fun for the maintainer23:36
pedjajoacim, librsvg hard depending on rust is, as far as the developers are concerned, a 'non-issue'23:44
pedjahe was using it to learn rust :)23:44
joacimshould do that with side projects23:45
joacimnot something big that a lot of software depends on23:45
pedjathat bug report is an interesting read23:47
pedjait was posted here a few times23:47
joacimoh it is a gnome hosted project23:48
joacimi get the impression nobody at gnome cares about what users want23:48
joacimlike they're in their own little bubble where nothing else matters23:48
pedjaworks for openbsd :)23:48
pedjanot so much for DE, I am afraid23:49
pedjaI respect their 'our way or the highway' attitude, thou23:51
pedjanever did understand the appeal of Gnome, but people seem to like it, so23:53
joacimi dont know. dont think it is about the highway at all. openbsd does a lot of things that might be different, but a lot of it has a good purpose23:53
pedjasecurity trumps all23:55
john_cephalopodajoacim: How dare you call a language that needs 4 GB to compile "meme language"?! ;þ23:56
pedjaand I get that. but it's not clear to me who are the users that gnome devs want to use their stuff. never used it myself23:57
joacimmust be my lack of social antennas23:57
john_cephalopodaI don't know what GNOME's doing. They were pretty decent once, a nice-looking desktop. Now they are gone and don't seem to give a fuck about what people want.23:57
john_cephalopodaBSDs are kinda strange, they live in some kind of parallel world, but at least some nice stuff drops out of it from time to time (like libressl and other stuff) and their tools are usually working well.23:58
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pedjaopensuse mantra is, afaik, 'those who do, decide'23:59

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