IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2019-02-11

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kevinHi Jaeger.  Just following up from yesterday (fail to load root fs).  I couldn't find anything missing in the kernel config, so I turned to grub.  The entry in grub.cfg from os-prober was long and complicated, so I finally tried replacing it with the very simple example from the Crux handbook. And it works!00:38
jaegernice. Glad you got it figured out :)00:39
kevinYeah, it was a good learning experience.  Looking forward to more of those.00:41
jaeger:D00:43
jaegerI've definitely learned a ton using distros like crux where tinkering is required00:43
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timcowchipif I put "export CONFIG_SHELL=/bin/bash" in /etc/pkgmk.conf will it fix the issue of builds stopping at "make"?07:58
timcowchipnvm08:10
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mayfrosthello there13:41
mayfrostI am trying to make w3mimg work13:41
mayfrostfound a problem with xquerytree "missing" according to error13:42
mayfrostanyone have a clue?13:42
mayfrostxquerytree is an XLIB function13:52
mayfrostI do have it but somehow is not finding it13:53
pedjamayfrost, paste the build log14:05
mayfrosthttp://ix.io/1AKO14:12
pedjamayfrost, w3m build fine here14:15
pedjabuilds*14:15
mayfrostI modify it to add w3m-img14:16
mayfrosthere is the pkgfile http://ix.io/1AKR14:19
pedjamayfrost, try rebuilding imlib214:20
mayfrostok14:21
hsnis there manual for zfs on root?14:25
pedjafreebsd has a nice one14:27
pedjaI guess ubuntu might have one too, they ship zfs14:29
mayfrostpedja, same error14:30
hsndo i need to download special kernel or something for instalation?14:36
mayfrosthsn, no but you need to compile one14:37
hsnso i need to boot from iso, compile new kernel then boot new kernel?14:37
hsni am new to zfs on linux14:38
mayfrostdon't know about zfs bt yeah those are the steps14:38
Anselmoisnt there like, a patched kernel for ZFS and whatever14:38
Anselmoooh, but I dont know about mounting a current zfs from the crux ISO, never have tried that14:39
jaegeryou will need to use an initramfs/initrd with zfs modules and tools in it. dracut is a decent choice for that14:39
jaegerThe CRUX ISO has no support for ZFS14:39
pedjayet :)14:40
Anselmothere are also tricky ways you can like, get around that sort of thing with chroots and virtual machines alot of the time x-x14:40
pedjamayfrost, confirmed, I get the same error14:40
Anselmo^^ also imlib2 isnt updating for me at the moment14:41
mayfrostpedja, thank god at least is reproducible14:41
pedjaheh14:41
mayfrostI don't know why all the buzz about zfs14:41
hsnwhat is dracut14:42
Anselmoits useful for like, building initramfs14:42
mayfrostit doesn't work on linux, many people report when they try it anyway things break badly14:42
Anselmoso you can have modules/other needed software avaliable immediately after the kernel boots, and before you mount the filesystems14:42
mayfrostand the features look really similar to xfs, for as much I see14:42
Anselmoalso to btrfs its kinda close seeming14:43
hsni had problems with btrfs14:43
hsni aim for zfs now, not copycat14:43
Anselmoit would be nice if there were more easy FS compatibility between linux and bsd though, filetransfer can sometimes just be a huge pain x-x14:43
hsnext2 is compatible14:44
AnselmoI mean, its not like there's nothing but it is a frustration I've run into14:45
hsnyou can use regular backup/restore for transfers14:46
pedjamayfrost, this one builds https://github.com/tats/w3m/releases/tag/v0.5.3%2Bgit2019010514:46
pedjaif zfs doesn't work on linux, why is freebsd switching to it instead of Illumos port?14:50
pedjait is not as well integrated as is on fbsd, granted, but it works (for <5.0 kernels :) )14:51
jaegerIt definitely works and you can do zfs on root, it just takes a little more work on linux14:56
mayfrostpedja, excuse my ignorance, can you show me what goes in version, source, and how to "cd" in build?14:57
jaegerhttp://ix.io/1AKZ for example14:58
pedjamayfrost, a quick hack http://dpaste.com/3CJ0GMD15:04
pedjajaeger, that's on spinning rust or ssd?15:07
jaegervirtual spinning rust15:07
pedjaah :)15:07
jaegerNo reason it wouldn't work on either, though15:07
pedjaiirc, fbsd will, as a gift to ZoL, bring in ssd trim support15:09
jaegeryeah, I remember reading something about that15:09
pedjait's battle tested on ixsystem's, well, systems :) TrueNas15:10
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mayfrostyes!15:10
mayfrostpedja, thank so much15:10
pedjanp15:10
mayfrostvifm now has picture preview15:11
pedjaweird how djvview can't open some folders. afaict, they have identical perms15:13
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AnselmoI mean. I was reasonably satisfied with it, but now I have internet many times faster and am always surprised when I can get large files in less than a day :P21:38
joacimmodem warning on every site21:38
john_cephalopodasamsung.com is 5 MB.21:38
john_cephalopodahttps://www.webbloatscore.com/21:38
pedjaHalt and Catch Fire, otoh, is awesome :)21:38
Anselmohehe, I saw a nice website a while ago, complaining about how bloated websites complaining about bloated websites were :P21:39
Anselmothat was a good laugh. but yeah.21:39
joacimoh?21:39
AnselmoI dont remember the link for it alas21:39
joacimhttps://forums.lawrencesystems.com/21:41
joacimthis site has a 2MB javascript21:41
joacimfile21:41
AnselmoACTION mumbles something about 'just use {lynx,w3m,elinks,edbrowse,whathaveyou}'21:42
joacimmeanwhile some of the old forums i like to lurk have no file above 40 kB21:42
joacim"Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled"21:43
john_cephalopodaWhat features did they gain? Did BBS get any better since the 90s?21:43
joaciminfinite scrolling, and image expansion21:43
joacimkeyboard shortcuts21:44
joacimthat go in the way of regular browser shortcuts21:44
Anselmomuch more customized feeds per user21:44
john_cephalopodaFeeds?21:45
joacimthe forum i linked just has a listing of categories, and a "latest posts" feed21:45
Anselmoisnt that what they call the like, great post listings on major social media sites ?21:45
joacimthat does not require several hundred kB of javascript21:45
john_cephalopoda"Latest posts" has been there since forever, "categories" were once called "subforums".21:45
Anselmoobviously not quite BBS but it seems like perhaps what fills the role alot of BBS used to21:45
joacimif i cant bring my entire site to school on a single floppy, the site is then far too big =)21:45
Anselmo:321:46
AnselmoI could almost do that, but I have too many photographs ;-;21:46
john_cephalopoda9.65 kB21:46
john_cephalopodaThat's my website. 5.7 of that is the website icon.21:47
joaciman entire page on a picture heavy board is about 1.5 MB. mostly due to the pictures21:47
Anselmo:321:47
john_cephalopodaAh, the internet is going to waste. Controlled by a handful of companies, degraded to be a distribution networks for CDNs.21:54
joacimseen sharepoint sites eat up 2GB or more RAM in Safari21:55
john_cephalopodaAnother horrible thing: CAPTCHAs. Using Tor and getting those very often.21:56
joacimi like the slow fading ones21:56
john_cephalopodaThey are the WORST21:56
joacimthat you fail and have to repeat at least 4 times21:56
joacimeven tho you did select all the zebra crossings21:56
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Anselmoyeah, its a stupid pain to deal with that all the time21:57
john_cephalopodaAnd the images load dynamically, so you have to wait for 30 seconds until you finally can see the next image, which still has a zebra crossing.21:57
john_cephalopodaThe grid images where you have to select all tiles with e.g. traffic lights in it are not better.21:57
joacimhttps://gizmodo.com/i-cut-the-big-five-tech-giants-from-my-life-it-was-hel-183130419421:58
joacimi thought this article on this bloated site was interesting21:58
john_cephalopodaWhat is a traffic light? Does the pole belong to the light? Does a tiny bit of traffic light that goes into the next square count?21:58
joaciminclude cloudflare too, and you've pretty much lost most popular sites21:58
Anselmowell, cloudfare puts a lot of those captchas on doesnt it22:00
Anselmonot all of them of course. . . .but alot of them22:00
john_cephalopodaOften when I see a captcha, I simply close the website. If they don't want me to see their stuff then I'm not interested.22:05
john_cephalopodaOh, another horrible thing is googleanalytics and googletagservice. Nearly every site uses those nowadays.22:06
Anselmotypically I try to sort things into different browsers, so most sites that I access are over tor and without JS, but have a seperate one for sites that I trust enough or actually need to allow to use JS x-x22:09
Anselmofor work and stuff mostly22:09
frinnstcrux.nu seems to do pretty well22:10
Anselmobuut yeah. web's a mess ;-;22:10
Anselmoyup.22:11
joacimfrinnst: that double click to edit things is bloat =)22:11
frinnsttimes out when I try to check our old company website :-)22:13
joacimthose discourse forums are actually nicer to navigate with lynx :(22:24
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