IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2019-03-28

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jaegertracer_: the folks who host the server01:58
tracer_jaeger: who are they, are they on irc, too?01:58
jaegerwhy do you ask?01:58
tracer_if I would setup a forum it would be helpful to have it under a official subdomain, else no one will take it for real, so it will end dead …01:59
ryuotracer_: ... 24 years? do you mean hours?01:59
tracer_ryuo: no, why do you think? I started with a CD labeled S.u.S.E 1.0.902:00
ryuotracer_: eh, nevermind. but are you sure you want to deal with a forum? they're a giant hassle to keep maintained.02:01
tracer_ryuo: running forums was for yeas part of my job, i still run some of them, my largest, personal one has more than 1 mio posts. I guess I can handle it :)02:02
ryuoi saw a lot of issues we had in Frugalware with our forums.02:02
ryuoUpgrades forced us to move to newer software. Sometimes we had to dump the old database because it was too much work to upgrade.02:03
tracer_what is frubalware? and what kond of issues?02:03
ryuoFrugalware, a more niche distribution than CRUX.02:03
tracer_Oh, I see, no, you don't have to cope with such problems. I'll take care.02:04
ryuoI take it you're more of an IT user.02:05
ryuoProgrammers are somewhat rare here.02:05
tracer_well I'm into IT since the mid 80ies. In the nineties I was responsible for military training systems, UNIx bases, mainly SUNs and DEC Alphas. So I started with Linux. Besides in a certified programmer in ADA (hate it) and Java (even more hate it), have a good knowledge of PHP and Javascript. So, well, a little bit more than just a user.02:08
ryuoI'm more of a C person myself.02:08
tracer_I used to code some C, late C++ on OS/2 and a few thing with Objective C on Macs, but since 2005 I'm selfemployed in web business, my customers demand support for PHP stuff.02:10
ryuoI see.02:10
ryuoI'm getting into web stuff myself, as C is hardly an employable skill a lot of times.02:10
ryuoBut, finding work isn't exactly easy.02:11
tracer_I thunk a god coder is able to adopt any language fast.02:11
tracer_Where do you live?02:11
ryuoMidwest.02:11
ryuoIt's a part of the US.02:12
tracer_Ah, OK, I'm in Germany. Good people get jobs easily. But I'm not keen on working for someones else.02:13
ryuounderstandable. I'm just trying to find something. A lot of places here are asking for a lot.02:14
Anselmohehe, I have a friend who lives in the midwest and works for a german company02:14
Anselmobut not C02:14
ryuoI wouldn't mind working remotely, but it's rarely an option.02:15
tracer_They always als for a lot more than 5 people can handle. If you're good at one, and have heard of the others you'll be able to get training on the job for the rest.02:15
tracer_Hi Anselmo02:15
ryuotracer_: Do you employ other people?02:16
Anselmoheya tracer_ and ruyo02:16
tracer_sorry, no, I'm a freelancer on my own. Not big enough to hire people, and too old to start a big business, and not really keen on it :-)02:16
Anselmoheh02:17
ryuotracer_: Ah. I thought it was worth asking at least.02:17
tracer_You're welcome :)02:17
tracer_Are you looking for something to make a few bucks for a short time, or a real job?02:18
ryuoEither right now.02:18
ryuoI manage some servers as well as doing programming.02:18
tracer_You can make about 18 USD/hour remote, but it's boring.02:18
ryuoBoring, maybe. I don't mind myself.02:19
ryuoIT isn't very exciting to begin with, but there's still things I enjoy.02:19
ryuoI've found myself using Ubuntu Server alongside my desktops at home.02:20
tracer_That jobs are not for coders or admins. You work (indirectly) for comapnnies like Google, Amazon even Wikimedia. Web Search Engine Evaluation. Google for Lionbridge or Leapforce, resp they were bought by Appen/Bunkerhill. They pay timely.02:21
tracer_I used to have Debian on my servers, now switching to Devuan. Desktop Linux is just a hobby for me, my main machine is … well, some kind of BSD :)02:22
Anselmoaah, looking for jobs is a pain02:29
ryuotracer_: systemd?02:34
tracer_hate it02:34
ryuoi can't see what else would motivate you to leave debian.02:34
tracer_isn't it enough?02:34
ryuoindeed.02:34
ryuoi use systemd out of requirements, but it greatly complicates services...02:35
ryuosysvinit is rather synchronous but very simple.02:35
ryuoasync requires a lot more effort to do correctly.02:35
ryuoand for what? a server that boots a bit faster?02:36
tracer_My server@home is quite old, I set it up as a debian Bo (1.3?), than for years hardware upgrades, dist-upgrades, but everything worked well. Untill Jessie and systemd came. I hate that big fat monster.02:36
ryuoDebian is gradually phasing out ifupdown even.02:36
ryuoIn favor of networkd.02:36
tracer_Exactly, I don't care if my machine boots in 20 or in 30 seconds. if a fsck is running on a 5TB /usr partion it doesn't matter if it start 10 seconds earlier or not.02:37
ryuoAfter using systemd for awhile, sysvinit feels a bit lacking, but it's still easy to get stuff done.02:37
ryuothere's other inits out there that aren't too bad for an sysvinit alternative...02:38
tracer_All distris move to the new ip tools, that is OK for me. More like BSD :)02:38
ryuorunit was one of my favorites.02:38
ryuotracer_: you use LXC before?02:38
tracer_No, ryuo never.02:38
ryuoi'm working on making CRUX usable on it, as a guest and host.02:39
ryuoLXC doesn't care what init you use, just that it responds to the way it interacts with init.02:39
ryuotracer_: ah, too bad. i find myself prefering them to VMs now.02:40
tracer_A container stuff. never dealt with it. Will come, will go. AWS is already shifting away from docker.02:40
ryuothey're easy to use and deploy for various experiments.02:40
ryuoah... LXC is a container technology that's less like docker and more like user mode linux.02:41
tracer_I use xen guests, easy enough for me :)02:41
tracer_AWS is going to deploy firecracker, maybe knowledge with it would be helpful in finding a job :)02:42
ryuofair enough. i just consider virtualization to be overkill when i don't need a virtual machine.02:42
tracer_That's my words about Java :-)02:43
ryuolol... JVM isn't what most call a VM these day.02:43
tracer_No, but is is overhead.02:43
Anselmowell, for java your architecture is the foreign one :P02:43
ryuotracer_: everything has some degree of overhead... i'm not a fan of Java, but for reasons you'll probably laugh at.02:44
ryuoJava's standard UI libraries look like shit. I've never seen a single Java GUI that didn't look fugly on Linux.02:45
ryuoFonts in particular look terrible.02:45
tracer_I'm currently fighting with a VM, too. I used parallels for CRUX, managed to get parallels tools running with linux 5.0.3, took me hours. But I wasn't happy. So I'll give vbox a try, again.02:46
ryuoI see.02:46
ryuowell, i'm working on LXC support for CRUX. if you decided to try it out, i can hook you up.02:46
tracer_Java looks ugly ever since. When I learned Java, it was about 2000, SWING was state of the art. Ugly like hell.02:46
ryuoit's rather easy to launch them once the kernel is configured.02:46
tracer_You can ask me in 1-2 weeks when I'm settled with CRUX.02:47
ryuook.02:48
ryuoi'm also working on a C rewrite of pkgutils.02:48
ryuoone goal is to make it into a library.02:48
tracer_motivation?02:48
tracer_Ah, ok.02:48
ryuowell, there's also the fact that no one wants to touch the C++ code.02:49
ryuoC may be a bit easier to approach.02:49
tracer_find a better name prt-get, please :)02:49
ryuoprt-get is a separate utility.02:49
tracer_I like C better for non GUI code.02:49
ryuopkgutils is just pkgadd, pkgrm, pkginfo02:49
ryuothe only thing i hate about using C is how much more work everything is, even compared to C++.02:50
tracer_Yes, but it still needs a better name, one, max tweo letter to type and then "tab", now I must type prt-<tab> that suxx :)02:50
ryuomaybe. i'm working on one thing at a time.02:50
ryuoi have to consider legacy software too.02:51
tracer_Ahm, OK. When my vbox is running I'll go back to modifiyng pkgmk, its only bash, but I found one issue and I want one improvement.02:51
ryuogo ahead. pkgmk i'm not revising.02:52
ryuoit's fine as is, mostly.02:52
ryuothere's not much you can improve with it honestly.02:52
tracer_Well, I found two thing, wait, I'll copy it ...02:53
ryuoi've found my share of inefficiencies in the C++ code.02:53
ryuolike, constantly recompiling the same RE patterns.02:53
tracer_Anyone fit with pkgmk? It defines a function remove_work_dir(), but also calls rm -rf $PKGMK_WORK_DIR 7 times. Any reason for that?02:53
tracer_19:56 tracer_: I stumbled upon this while I'm trying to extend pkgmk, I want a config option for -kw for ports developing02:53
ryuoI saw that.02:53
ryuoi remember from using posix REs in the past that reusing the compiled engine is better than recompiling it each time.02:54
ryuoit adds noticeable overhead.02:54
tracer_Never worked with RE in C++ before, only in scripting languages.02:54
ryuoah, POSIX defines a fair amount of useful extensions02:55
ryuoregcomp, regexec, regfree, regerror are the functions for the posix RE C API02:55
ryuothe REs work the same as you'd expect from grep, awk, etc02:56
tracer_OK. That makes it easier to fiddle with them.02:57
ryuoit's not super complicated to use, but there's better options for static patterns.02:57
tracer_How many people are working on CRUX?02:59
ryuoHonestly, not sure. CRUX doesn't have many fluent in programming. Most are just scripters.02:59
tracer_Ok. Well, I must my system get up and running (motivation is to build a GTK free Desktop), than i'll look further.03:00
ryuothat's a tall order...03:01
ryuowhat would you use instead? QT?03:01
tracer_I'm into KDE since Icaza didn't even dream of GNOME, so about beta 0.6.7 or so.03:01
ryuoto have a complete desktop, you'd need a web browser, and those require either QT or GTK engines for the best options.03:01
ryuotracer_: really? when did you last use QT?03:02
tracer_I'm perfectly well with QT, that is a very good product.03:02
ryuoerr KDE03:02
ryuoKDE since 3 has been a giant turd for regular use... crashes galore.03:03
ryuoi stopped using KDE4 for years due to various issues.03:03
ryuothen i started again when it was stable.03:03
tracer_I left desktop linux 15 years ago, only spying every half year or so into the development. KDE still looks good. Though the start with 4.x was a dumbass thing.03:03
ryuothen it becames unstable against with the jump to QT503:03
ryuoKDE5 has been a crash happy beast every time i've tried it with Ubuntu.03:04
tracer_You, you could user trinity, if you prefer QT3/KDE3(.5)03:04
ryuoNah, honestly. It doesn't age well, unfortunately.03:04
ryuoWhat's your issue with GTK+? There's still usable DEs other than GNOME that are largely rock solid.03:05
tracer_I'll give it a try. As I said, it is just a hobby. If I leave it alone for another 6 months it will be OK. However, I have fun fiddling with CRUX.03:05
ryuoOk.03:05
ryuoI'm just telling you my experience with both in recent years.03:05
tracer_GTK is C, stupid idea for a desktop GUI.03:06
ryuoDon't be surprised if KDE5 in CRUX is still crashy, though it's possible it has been resolved by now.03:07
ryuoI haven't tried KDE in 2 years or so.03:07
tracer_If you want C(++) with good OO you'll need to look at Objective C or QT.x03:07
tracer_I guess I will see it in a few hours, already compiled the whole framework and most of plasma-meta. Nevertheless, local time is 04:08, I guess I must go to bed for a few hours, spent the last 30 hours in front of the screen only interrupet by short brakes for food and stuff.03:09
ryuotracer_: sleep well.03:09
tracer_Not yet, but within the next few hours I guess. Have to get the X server running (again).03:10
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frinnsttek__: ubiquiti unifi stuff really copy apple in their designs08:22
frinnstahh my first new larger customer network of the year08:25
frinnstcomplete with dualstack \o/08:25
frinnstnew year's resolution08:25
ryuofrinnst: but how does it stack up? =p09:21
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frinnstbooooooo :-)10:25
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pedja2 ipv6 hosts, both can ping6 google, host1 can ping6 host2, but not the other way around. interesting problem(from another channel)13:46
deep42thoughtHi, is it desirable to have gnat available in crux in general or should I stick with my fork of the Pkgfile of gcc for my personal use?13:47
deep42thoughtpedja: maybe host1 doesn't answer ipv6 ping at all?13:47
pedjadeep42thought, if I am reading the paste correctly, it does when the ipv6 address is pinged directly13:52
pedjaand it answers on domain name randomly, it seems13:56
pedjaso I guess, dns issue? it's always dns :)13:56
deep42thoughtdoes it list its link-local address in dns, too? ;-P13:57
pedjaapparently, it's a vps, so who knows wth is going on there13:59
pedjadeep42thought, so how did you resolve your gnat/ada issue?13:59
deep42thoughtI found a gnat binary for x86_6414:00
deep42thoughtwell "a" binary is misleading14:00
pedjawhich one?14:00
pedjathere are a few of them, iirc14:00
deep42thoughthttps://crux.eckner.net/gcc/Pkgfile14:00
deep42thoughtit's called gnat-gpl, IIRC14:01
deep42thoughtthe problem was, I needed to move ld and as out-of-the-way, so the build would succeed14:01
pedjaas LFS suggests :)14:01
deep42thoughtyes14:02
deep42thought:-)14:02
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pedjadouble-sided tape ftw15:07
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ryuopedja: my favorite is double-edged tape.15:17
pedja"Cisco Fixes RV320/RV325 Vulnerability by Banning “curl” in User-Agent"15:32
pedjahm15:32
pedjano going around that, I guess15:33
TimB_how would anyone be able to do that?15:34
pedjaspoofing user-agent? don't think it's even possible :)15:37
TimB_spoofing? that's illegal right?15:38
TimB_has to be15:38
pedjaidk, not a lawyer15:39
TimB_hehe15:40
tracer_re15:40
tracer_why not use wget instead?15:40
pedjaspoofing browser user-agent because the site won't let me d/l Windows sw otherwise? no, never done it15:40
TimB_it's too specific to be a lie15:41
pedjatracer_, interesting point. if you are curious, https://www.redteam-pentesting.de/en/advisories/rt-sa-2019-005/-cisco-rv320-command-injection15:42
tracer_I'll check that link later, still busy getting X running for CRUX. However, yesterday I found a brand new vboxdriver for 5.0.x kernels. Might work.15:44
pedja'prt-get depinst xorg' should be enough to get it going?15:46
pedjaTimB_, lie? me? never :)15:47
TimB_hehe15:49
tracer_No. Kernel 5.x broke some headers. I fixed it for Parallels, but had other issues, besides, I dislike to policy from Parallels, so I try to get CRUX up with vbox. But there are issues with newer kernels. Can use either staging vboxvideo or the latest driver from oracle, but but make trouble while compiling.15:49
pedjaiirc, vbox has 'supported kernels up to foo'15:50
pedjaone of the reasons I dumped it and moved to libvirt15:50
TimB_pedja: btw, have you ever checked out pulseeffects? I am currently trying their loudness plugin and it works significantly better than the one you hinted to me some months ago15:50
TimB_for me at least15:51
pedjaTimB_, I have a port for it, but I have yet to try it15:51
tracer_pedja: never used libvirt, I thought it is only a wrapper for xen, kvm and co?15:51
TimB_pedja: was gonna offer a pkgfile too haha15:51
pedjatracer_, it is15:51
TimB_well, I guess the fun part is all the deps for the other plugins (if one needs them?)15:51
tracer_So, when it's only a wrapper, I must be able to get the suff below up and running standalone.15:52
pedjaTimB_, that's a good question. it depends on bunch of stuff, and there were some changes with the latest release, iirc. still figuring that out15:52
TimB_well I got some15:53
TimB_but I haven't got much time right now15:54
pedjatracer_, I am lame/lazy, so I use the virt-manager to install, and then virsh. can't be bothered with qemu scripting :)15:54
pedjaTimB_, when you get around to it, paste the pkgfile for it, I'd like to take a look. I probably missed something :)15:55
pedjamight push it to contrib at some point, but it needs a bit more testing before that15:57
TimB_pedja: http://sprunge.us/JuOSxo15:57
pedjaTimB_, nice. lot less deps then mine15:59
pedjahave to trim that down eventually16:00
AbdullahTimB_: I think I had it but didn't feel some difference. I'll gonna compile it in this machine now16:04
pedjaTimB_, which one are you using? compressor, multiband compressor or?16:05
pedjaACTION scrolls down16:05
pedjaah. there is a loudness one :)16:06
TimB_pedja: loudness16:06
TimB_well it lists all the plugins but it's missing the actual deps for it16:06
Abdullahhow to resolve dependencies with pkgmk ?16:07
Abdullahis that possible?16:07
TimB_other than that, for loudness it works fine16:07
TimB_Abdullah: not quiet yet16:07
pedjaTimB_, I have most the deps, gone a little overboard :)16:07
Abdullahhmm so I have to manaually solve them16:07
TimB_pedja: hehe, well, great16:07
TimB_Abdullah: or you just wait this one out? :P16:08
Abdullah;-)16:08
pedjaI'll have to check which dependency is enabling something actually useful vs just cool to play with16:10
AbdullahI got only one dependency issue in this port. gst-plugins-bad16:10
pedjawhat's the issue?16:11
AbdullahI mean I didn't have that installed16:12
pedjaah16:12
Abdullahbtw if we use only alsa and no pulse?16:13
Abdullahcan't we live without pulse?16:13
pedjagst-plugins are in contrib, Romster is maintaining them, afaik16:13
Abdullahyeah I'm compiling it16:13
pedjayou can, if you don't need the sound in firefox16:13
AbdullahI use chrome ;-)16:13
pedjafirefox-bin, that is16:14
pedjafor chrome, I am not sure16:14
Abdullahwhen I came to crux, there was an issue with rust port so I move to chrome.16:14
Abdullahdunno if rust update is solved or not.16:14
pedjathe issue with rust is that it's PITA16:14
pedjathere is a rust-bin port, thou16:15
Abdullahfootprint mismatch found for gst-plugins-bad Romster16:17
pedjaNEW or MISSING?16:18
AbdullahNEW16:18
pedjaignore that16:18
AbdullahI have installed it manually yeah16:19
Abdullahlibebur128 now is missing for pulseeffects16:19
pedjathere is a setting in pkgmk.conf for it too16:19
AbdullahI think I have to go for portdb now ;-)16:19
pedjaor make your own16:20
Abdullahokay16:20
Abdullahlibebur128 isn't in portdb. maybe TimB_ created a port today and portdb isn't updated yet16:21
pedjahere you go http://dpaste.com/3P6W44W16:23
pedjajust check if it's up to date16:23
TimB_http://sprunge.us/5UMgpU16:23
TimB_he16:23
TimB_well, yeah. I like this solution a lot more16:24
TimB_it's just easier plus a nice gui16:24
pedjaTimB_, time to apply for contrib :) ?16:24
TimB_I mean for pulse... it's whatever16:24
TimB_haha, yeah? After my homework that I am currently avoiding?16:24
TimB_it's about the fucking euro crisis, I can't stand this hellhole topic16:25
AbdullahI was writting a port for it but thanks ;-)16:25
pedjaeuro crisis as in the currency or EU?16:27
TimB_well both16:27
pedjaah, economics. so I guess the first one16:27
TimB_it's very much going hand in hand for the most part16:28
Abdullahpedja: its updated. released this on Jan 28, 201816:28
TimB_and the question for the homework is "was the crisis management successfull?" fun part: you don't get much info about that from literature16:28
TimB_so I called the german national bank and asked them if they had material, statistics and so on. answer: "you'd never get any information on regard of that topic from us"16:29
pedjaheh16:29
TimB_I am thinking about copying banksy and printing that in the introduction16:29
pedjawhat is 'successful'? the markets didn't implode?16:30
pedjaby that metric, yes, crisis management was a success, I guess :)16:31
TimB_pedja: I am having a troublesome time defining that myself, plus the homework is for a prof who excels in that topic and it will include an oral test16:31
TimB_so yeah, fun times :D16:31
pedjadoes a prof have a book or some published work about it?16:31
TimB_pedja: I am also getting at Dragis "the ECB will do whatever it takes, and trust me, it will be enough" :)16:32
TimB_pedja: guess just some articles maybe, but never found one on my searches16:32
TimB_I just had a class with that prof two semesters ago which includes fiscal topics and she is freaking fit about that stuff16:33
TimB_so yeah :D16:33
TimB_I mean, this shit is just crazy and most of it is secret. everybody in contact with that matter is under disclosure16:34
TimB_so all you can do is get and compare some stats, and not answer the topic?16:34
TimB_in the end, maybe make a vague assumption?16:34
Abdullah(pulseeffects:16235): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: 21:34:38.183: Settings schema 'com.github.wwmm.pulseeffects' is not installed16:35
Abdullahzsh: trace trap  pulseeffects16:35
TimB_oh, you are missing the postinstall16:35
AbdullahTimB_: some script to run right?16:35
TimB_glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas16:35
AbdullahTimB_: I forgot your github name16:36
TimB_it's not online16:36
Abdullahso how can I have this post install ?16:37
TimB_I just posted the command you need to run above...16:37
pedjaTimB_, maybe just draw conclusions based on the data you have.16:37
TimB_pedja: that's the plan so far, seems like the best tactic. I am not deep into the topic16:38
TimB_so I can't make a wild ride out of it16:38
TimB_plus: only 10-15 pages16:38
pedja20+pt font :)16:38
TimB_hahahaha you wish16:38
TimB_actually16:39
TimB_I WISH16:39
TimB_no, working with latex and official page layout, 12pt, one and a half line spacing and so on and so forth16:39
pedjaisn't there a metric for the health of the economy?16:39
TimB_well, they are some, but none is qualified really to count as a single performance indicator really, not to my knowledge so far16:40
TimB_so I am getting a battery of different statistcs like unemployment, gdp, debt and so on16:40
pedjalooking for trends?16:41
TimB_from 2010 to guess the best I can get is 2017 maybe 201816:41
TimB_yeah16:41
TimB_from there it's just a comparison to say what changed, what made the change, and if it could be considered good?16:42
TimB_I mean, you can't expect somebody to fully answer that on 15 pages :D16:42
pedjaanswer, no. informed opinion, otoh16:43
TimB_yeah16:43
pedjaI think that's the point of it16:43
Abdullahhttp://ix.io/1EJb16:43
TimB_are you running dbus? plus: I need to detach this window, cya all later16:44
pedjagood luck16:45
TimB_pedja: ty!16:45
AbdullahTimB_: take care. lets do this sometime later.16:45
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Abdullahis there somewhere 3.5 iso available? someone is asking for it on mailing lists18:51
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