IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2019-03-31

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Abdullahjue: don't we have some post install script for kvm related stuff?03:52
ryuojue: so what creates it?04:39
ryuoi was using a bare 3.4 so that's why.04:40
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joacim"changelog edit"09:07
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pedjaI just might go and check this out
pedjait's a 10min walk to it :)11:59
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joacimexpect to see nerds that complain about anachronisms =)12:36
pedja'how dare they have an ambulance standing by!'12:47
pedjait will be interesting to see Norwegian team against, say, Russia12:49
pedjaor Serbia :)12:49
pedjahopefully the fortress will get its much needed cleaning before the event, used needles and condoms are totally anachronistic12:52
joacimnorwegian tourists are known for being drunk12:57
joacimalso we might just try to trade with the other team instead of fighting12:58
pedjaalcohol is cheap here :)13:12
joacimyeah. how much dry fish for a pint?13:16
pedjanot familiar with the current exchange rate, sorry :)13:31
john_cephalopodaHow many ml are a pint?13:31
joacimfor metric people it is more or less the same as 0.5 litre, but it can be less or more depending on the non-metric country14:17
joacimif you ask for a pint in norway, you just get a regular .5 litre glass14:17
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pedjasame here. ~2€ or more, depending on the branch and how fancy the bar is14:27
pedjaand when those are closed, there are several stores open 24/7, so14:31
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joacim2 euro for a pint?15:25
joacimi think a .5 litre serving is about 8-9 euro here15:26
joacimand thats just some cheap mass produced lager15:26
joacimmore of a tax thing, so micro brews and local small brands arent much more expensive15:27
joacimordering whisky is annoying, since most bars arent used to it15:28
joacimthe people that run around and clear out empty glasses from tables, will take your glass of whisky away from you, even tho there are a good 2-3 sips left15:28
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joacimamazing how much of a difference dns servers make.15:36
joacim <- anything like this for linux systems?15:37
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pedja, perhaps?15:45
joacimcurrent css on stackexchange is an improvement15:46
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joacimvery confused by that dockerfile15:46
Anselmodoh wait is it april15:50
joacimfor me it is tomorrow15:51
AnselmoI think it is tommorow most places. maybe on the very edge of the meridian its already tomorow x-x15:51
pedjajoacim, what's confusing about it? installs the deps and dnstest script in alpine image15:51
joacimthe deps is so very minimal tho15:51
joacimalso a tool like this doesnt seem like something that would need a dockerfile15:52
joacimdocker itself seems overkill for a tool like this15:53
pedjadrill is not that commonly installed15:53
joacimmy fbsd-based router firmware has drill15:55
joacimthe fedora system i ran that script on did not have drill15:55
pedjait ships with ldns15:55
joacimis that a dig-like?15:56
pedjapretty much, yes15:56
joacimexplains why they'd install that with alpine15:56
pedjasupports dnssec thingie15:56
pedjain fact, it's designed for dnssec debugging15:58
pedjasame people maintain unbound, nsd, and a few other tools16:00
joacimseems like that tool would work equally well with either16:01
tilmanAnselmo: i think stackoverflow is celebrating april fools already16:43
ryuotilman: their stack overflowed?16:49
joacimsucks when sites make improved style sheets and designes just as a joke16:49
joacimlike when some american sites made text only sites as a reaction to gdpr16:50
frinnst looks fun and rewarding16:55
joacimyou're supposed to just stand there and take it?16:57
frinnstlooks like a US prisoner rodeo16:57
frinnstso not that much fun as I first thought16:57
frinnstjesus fucking christ that's sick16:58
frinnst something a bit more fun17:01
joacim don't think this is where i found it17:24
joacimit's not in my urls.log17:24
Abdullahon new installations, fakeroot comes installed or we have to install it? (writting a tutorial for new comers, don't remember if it was installed or I installed it manually)18:42
AbdullahI mean if we have to compile it or it is installed when we do setup?18:43
joacimit is in opt, and therefore is not preinstalled18:43
joacimor at least cannot be expected to be on every system18:44
joacimmost that install it do so to install packages as an unprivileged user18:44
joacimbuild packages rather18:44
Abdullahopts aren't installed during setup? I mean we don't get option of opt there?18:46
joacimyou get the option to install opt stuff18:48
joacimbut it is not selected by default18:48
joacimonly core is selected by default18:48
Abdullahso if we select opt fakeroot is installed.18:50
AbdullahI advised to select all things in setup. so I think I'd ask them to do again compile fakeroot ;)18:51
joacimi would just advice to prt-get depinst fakeroot =)18:53
joacimi rather exactly which tool i need to install, than to be told to install the entire kitchen sink18:53
Abdullahokay I'll advise them to compile it again ;)18:54
Abdullahwho cares ;)18:54
joacimwhy compile it again?18:54
joacimonce should be enough =)18:54
Abdullahyeah as you said its in opt and once per my advice if they select everything in setup, it will be already there.18:55
joacimi dont get it18:57
Abdullahjoacim: once we mount everything in installation we invoke setup.18:59
Abdullahthen we get some option to select what we wanna install.18:59
Abdullahand you said opt is also there.19:00
TimB_advice to check for fakeroot with prt-get isinst fakeroot?19:00
TimB_then proceed with wether to install it or not19:00
Abdullahso if we select opt. fakeroot is there then.19:00
joacimmy confusion is based on two parts. first one you suggest to select everything in opt, which is confusing since that makes people spend more time waiting for compiles during system updates, and have to deal with more issues with rejmerge and revdep19:00
joacimsecond, you say your advice is to "compile it again", which shouldnt be needed when you already have that application =)19:01
TimB_+1 ^19:01
Abdullahjoacim: nah, I said, select everything like xorg etc during setup19:01
Abdullahokay. let me complete the tutorial and I'll put it there. and won't add it to index until you people are happy with it.19:02
joacimoh, norwegians are never happy, unless drunk on cheap foreign liquor19:03
pedjadon't complicate it, just say 'install fakeroot (prt-get depinst fakeroot), if you don't have it already19:04
pedjainstalling just core and then adding applications as needed is what most people do, afaik19:07
joacimwith crux, i think it is better to "diy" a bit, since it takes a bit of knowing to maintain an install19:08
TimB_I would agree19:09
pedjablindly c/p stuff to shell is Arch, not Crux way :)19:10
pedjaor so I've heard, never used Arch, and I don't intend to19:11
Abdullahpedja:  Thanks.19:12
Abdullahpedja: I think you are old enough and have seen that arch was derived from crux (though they don't accept it)19:13
pedjaiirc, they removed 'inspired, in part, by Crux' from their web page :)19:13
Abdullahso who goes for it at least if they know this thing already. I was told many times that I should go manjaro or something which is derived from arch just because they were easy but I selected arch that time. I didn't know about crux that time.19:14
Abdullahpedja: I think they still have this thing there, at least a few days ago they had. lemme check19:15
pedjadon't bother, not at all interested in it19:15
AbdullahCRUX is a lightweight distribution that focuses on the KISS principle. CRUX inspired Judd Vinet to create Arch.19:16
Abdullahthey have it ;)19:16
pedjaoh, so I mis-remembered then :) apologies19:16
Abdullahits okay :)19:17
pedjaArchwiki is a valuable resource, I'll give them that19:17
AbdullahI had a debate with archers on this in #linux. I mean on KISS principle.19:18
Abdullahyeah arch wiki is cool.19:18
AbdullahI had many guys there who favoured crux. You know I'm new to linux (started in late 2017). those people also told me they liked arch was only good for them till it didn't have makepkg.19:19
AbdullahI think makepkg is also our tool just they forked it if I'm not wrong?19:20
joacimi tend to see imageboard people talk about crux like it is a minimalism distro19:20
joacimnot sure if i agree with that19:20
joacimsince simplicity doesnt have to be minimal19:21
AbdullahOne thing in crux manuals I don't agree that its aimed to experienced/advanced users only. As its the distro which made me somehow advanced. in one month I have 100 ports who never packaged something before.19:23
Anselmowell, the distro itself is minimalist,a given crux system doesnt have to be19:23
joacimin 10 years i only have 10-20 ports19:24
Abdullaharch sucks in this matter, I had trouble in a font and I asked for guide on it. I mean on ABS. and none helped me. I spent more than 24 hours and had no idea. After I came to crux, now I'm sure I can write hunderds of pkgbuilds if I want for arch but I won't give it a fuck after crux now.19:24
AnselmoI learned how to write arch packages also by writing crux ports :P19:27
Abdullahyeah its minimalistic. I have an encrypted install on external drive with less than 350 packages and I can do my job with it easily. if you do install arch, after having X you're there with more than 400 packages.19:27
joacimi still have no idea how to make an rpm for fedora19:27
AbdullahThere are more than 200 packages which starts with x just to have X in arch.19:28
Anselmoehh, not sure whether thats much to say about arch or more about X19:30
joacimi dont know how many packages from X i have19:31
joacima lot of those packages might just be different parts of one application split up in more than one package19:31
joacimi think weechat on alpine have 6 packages in total19:31
Abdullaharch is recompile ubuntu.19:31
joacimfor different features19:32
AnselmoI have 111 packages from xorg installed on my descktop19:32
Abdullahno compiler optimiztion at all.19:32
joacimi cared about that shit when i used gentoo, but now i just use generic amd64 flags19:33
joacimthe default ones19:33
AnselmoI basically always use default flags x-x19:33
Anselmoand always have19:33
joacimthink it is nice to have a portable system too19:33
joacimsince it lets me simply move my ssd to a different system, and it will still work fine19:34
AbdullahI get more than 250 mbs on fresh boot on arch with dwm and slstatus. on my crux I get 80 mbs on fresh boot. with urxvtd, and a urxvt scratchpad instance too.19:35
Abdullahmaybe its due to systemd too.19:35
Abdullahso if a custom port if installed with flag depinst, it will compile all those things mentioned in dependencies and also those which are dependencies of dependencies?19:46
Anselmoprovided they're not already installed or compiled19:48
Abdullahsorry can't get it19:49
Abdullahyou if they aren't already installed, they will be installed.19:49
Abdullahs/you/you meant/19:50
Anselmoyes, and if they're not already compiled they'll be compiled19:50
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Abdullahhere is goes, kindly read and tell me if I'm missing something.
joacimwould it be possible with an encrypted boot partition too?21:08
joacimsince anything unencrypted can lead to modifications by external agents21:09
Abdullahyeah its very possible.21:09
joacimback doors etc.21:09
Abdullahwell, you can use secure boot too as I use with my own keys21:09
Abdullahbut its also possible to install with an encrypted boot partition since grub2 supports it.21:10
joacimsomething signature based to prevent tampering at least21:12
Abdullahjoacim: how can one tampers my kernel witout booting the machine once secure boot is enabled with my own keys?21:14
Abdullahthey cant boot using other iso21:15
Abdullaheven if they break into supervisor password, main system partition is encrypted21:16
joacimi mean if the boot is unencrypted21:19
Abdullahif the boot is unencrypted, can someone break encryption or it helps them in some way to break into?21:23
joacimif the boot partition is unencrypted, someone could take the drive and modify the kernel from a second system21:30
joacimofc would still help against something as simple as theft21:31
joacimwhich is probably more likely21:31
joacimthan someone stealing your system to add a back door21:31
joacimthat back door would be gone as soon as you update your kernel too =)21:31
joacimi would think21:31
joacimunless they did something automated that patched the kernel sources or binary before you rebooted21:32
AbdullahI have the builtin card21:33
joacimnot very likely unless you're some kind of freedom fighter =)21:33
joacimmore likely that you get some random malware from browsing, but hardly anything targets linux-based systems21:33
Abdullahdoes it apply to secure boot?21:34
joacimwell they do, but not the same way as windows i'd think21:34
joacimno idea.21:34
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Abdullahjoacim: since we are listening about upgrade to 3.5, is it possible to upgrade without a new install?22:09
joacimboot iso, run the setup script22:10
joacimafter mounting install to /mnt22:10
joacimit'll list an upgrade option22:10
joacimit is possible to do the upgrade from an online system22:11
joacimbut that document has not been updated in a while22:11
joacimit's on the wiki22:11
joacimi think it is more or less correct, with adjustments required22:11
joacimthink i'll try it on in a vm later22:11
joacimwhen rcs start to roll out22:11
AbdullahHow long we have to wait approx for 3.5?22:12
joacimanything from a few weeks to a few months22:12
joacimdepends on interest of the maintainers and when the rc comes out =)22:13
joacimdont think it takes long from the rc comes out to a full release22:13
Abdullahhope to see it soon ;)22:13
joacimI'm horribly lazy about upgrading =)22:13
joacimi upgraded the server just before christmas i think22:14
Abdullahmaybe it takes time?22:14
joacimstill thinking about replacing that with illumos and zfs tho22:14
joacimbeen lazy about that too22:14
AbdullahI daily do a ports -u; sysup22:14
joacimtried a year ago, but then i realised i had to install all my services again22:14
joacimwhich i couldnt be bothered with22:14
Abdullahusing ext4. never tried zfs. once I tried btrfs22:15
joacimi use btrfs today22:15
joacimi like it on my desktop22:15
AbdullahI think its good for ssds22:15
joacimi mostly use it when i want to use use mirroring or some other feature22:21
joacimon my desktop i have one file system that i use for /home + virtual machines somewhere in /var22:21
Abdullahdo you also use kvm stuff?22:22
joacimfor testing things mostly22:22
AbdullahI installed windows a few days ago.22:22
Abdullahin kvm.22:22
AbdullahI used a usb as iso installation media. after installation, it still asks me for it.22:23
AbdullahI think I have to add some path to it.22:23
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joacimhey =)22:28
tracer_Hi joacim, maybe you can help me. I need to patch a Makefile for a port. Is there any example?22:29
joacimi'd grep around in opt and contrib22:31
joacimif it is just a single line that needs changing, sed can be a decent option22:32
joacimif it is more involved, a diff can be made22:32
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tracer__Hi, sorry, my DSL went bad again :( I'm now on via cell phone tethering :-(22:33
joacimoh. did you see my reply?22:33
tracer__No, might you repeat?22:33
joacim00:31     joacim | i'd grep around in opt and contrib22:33
joacim00:32          + | if it is just a single line that needs changing, sed can be a decent option22:33
joacim00:32          + | if it is more involved, a diff can be made22:33
joacimi dont see it on our gdpr compliant irc log yet, so i might as well =)22:34
tracer__Oh, I just need to remove one Line in the Makefile. But, well, I guess I have to deal with, but I have never worked with autoconf nor CRUX ports before.22:35
joacimi tend to prefer sed when the change is just a few lines, up to 6 or so maybe22:35
joacimidk. depends on my mood22:35
joacimlots of sed examples in opt and contrib =)22:35
joacimi think my ports has some too22:35
joacimyeah i use sed in my swapd port22:36
tracer__OK, I'll grab .. Oh, no, wait, can't read my CRUX machine when I'm on cellular.22:36
tracer__OK, check it later. I already found post and pre install. But I must change the source after the download, what would be the right place for that?22:37
joacimi do it in the Pkgfile22:39
joacimi think that is also the most common22:39
joacimsince a pre-install method could cause issues with md5sum and signatures22:40
tracer__Oh, I'm currently working with -is and -im, I'not that for to take care for that stuff, just want to get things up and running :)22:41
joacimdo it in the Pkgfile =)22:41
joacimit will unpack the plain unmodified source, then run sed to modify the unpacked source22:42
tracer__OK. I'll have a look. Switch back to LAN; maybe my DAL comes back online later.22:42
tracer__Ah, sound reasonable. thx.22:42
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