IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2019-04-26

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ryuothis website never gets old.01:04
ryuohttp://tiffzhang.com/startup/?s=33143377610101:04
ryuohttp://tiffzhang.com/startup/?s=32970540399401:04
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pedjainteresting. zerotier-one prefers clang to gcc, 'smaller and faster builds'13:06
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pedjahas anyone played with https://github.com/debauchee/barrier? it's synergy-1.x fork13:28
AbdullahI have found some ports in opt which are outdated and unmaintaied. so what to do there?13:29
pedjaopen a bug at flyspray13:29
Abdullahlibsrtp and openal13:29
AbdullahI wanna maintain them if there is a way13:30
pedjaattach a patch updating them. that's a start :)13:30
pedjaof course, test if they break anything first13:31
AbdullahI get them only if I do `prt-get listinst | grep "\[ \]"`13:33
pedjaboth ports have maintainers listed. open a bug, attach a patch if you can be bothered13:39
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ryuohonestly this is one of crux's sore points. what to do when maintainers neglect their packages.13:50
ryuoi think there should be a policy to allow other maintainers to modify such packages within reason.13:51
pedjadefine 'reason'13:52
ryuoSecurity updates, minor version bumps.13:52
ryuomajor reworking should only be done by the regular maintainer.13:53
ryuohow many times have you seen packages that are out of date only in minor terms?13:53
ryuoand then take awhile to receive an update.13:54
ryuoi just think it could be helpful when the maintainers are unavailable for some reason, either temporary or permanent.13:54
ryuofor example, i wanted to update lxc in contrib. it's owned by tek_ but they haven't modified it in 2+ years.13:56
ryuounder current policy i'm SOL.13:56
ryuoi'm not the only one that's been burned by this flaw.13:58
ryuoCRUX has had issues with maintainers that fall inactive and getting butthurt when people modify their packages in their absence to keep them usable and relevant.13:59
ryuoi can't recall who it was before but...13:59
ryuoa policy might help resolve the matter in some cases.13:59
pedjait's open source, anyone can fork the port and keep it updated in their repo14:00
ryuoyet, shouldn't the official repos be better maintained?14:00
ryuowe're not talking personal repos here.14:01
pedjacontrib is best-effort, user maintained, afaik14:01
ryuofair enough. i guess standards of quality are irrelevant then. :p14:02
pedjawell, opening bug in flyspray would help, but14:06
TimB_15:52 < pedja> define 'reason' <- to not leave flyspray tasks open for years? ;)14:06
ryuoright. i'll just file a bug that'll be promptly ignored.14:06
ryuoD:14:06
jaegerryuo: have you considered asking tek_ if you can take over lxc?14:07
ryuojaeger: i tried, but i've effectively been ignored when i asked him about lxc in the past.14:08
jaegerAh, bummer. :/14:08
ryuoit's hard enough to reach them on irc.14:08
ryuoi don't like stepping on toes, but it does get old when people stop maintaining stuff.14:09
jaegerYeah, can be frustrating. I'd suggest forking it for the time being. Yes, it would be nice if everything were kept up-to-date14:11
ryuoi mean, if you're not going to maintain an active presence... why can't people take over your old packages14:12
ryuoit just seems common sense14:12
jaegerWell, he may not feel that way, though I don't know thw reason14:13
ryuotrue, but an inactive maintainer isn't contributing anyway.14:13
ryuoi'd think packages that have had no git commits in over a year should be up for grabs.14:14
jaegerHe's not completely inactive, at least14:14
ryuomaybe 2 years.14:14
ryuofairly objective criteria.14:15
jaegerHe's updated other ports as recently as 2 days ago14:15
ryuoi see.14:15
ryuotrue.14:15
ryuobut some are rather neglected.14:15
ryuoi had done some work to overhaul LXC but i haven't gotten them to take me seriously.14:16
ryuoi had fixed up the instructions...14:16
TimB_the problem with forking: people will do the same work over and over again eventually - which is really ineffective and bad for newer users..14:16
ryuowhy i want to fix contrib stuff at the source.14:17
TimB_same here :)14:17
ryuoi never did like the 'fork off' reply.14:17
ryuolol14:17
TimB_^^'14:18
TimB_right now, /usr/ports/overlay has 268 dirs over here ~.~14:18
TimB_a lot from core/opt/contrib14:18
pedjaso, what do you do when two people disagree on how the port should be made? one prefers minimal, other full featured14:18
TimB_well, minus around 119 for all the perl modules I packed up for biber14:19
pedjaTimB_, that's impressive :)14:19
ryuopedja: no idea, but what i discussed has nothing to do with that.14:19
pedjait's one of the reasons people fork ports14:19
TimB_pedja: well, isn't CRUX always going the minimal approach? and add things as they are needed and within reason maybe? everything else can get a seperated, full feature port?14:20
pedjahence the fork :)14:20
ryuogentoo resolves this issue with a complicated build system.14:20
ryuobut not going to fly here.14:20
ryuogentoo builds are usually heavily customizable for optional depends.14:20
ryuopedja: even so, i think the maintenance issue should be addressed. differences of opinion on packaging can't really be resolved.14:22
ryuoin a general manner anyway.14:22
ryuoi think the last major stink i saw was from the XFCE maintainer.14:23
ryuosepen was it?14:23
pedjayes14:24
ryuoapparently got upset that people modified their packages, arguably doing them a favor, when they weren't around.14:24
ryuothough i don't know the full details.14:24
TimB_I would be so happy if somebody would do that for me.. D:14:25
pedjaI forked xfce and maintain it in my personal repo. works for me[tm]14:25
ryuoi dunno, i just expect more from contrib packages. as is they're not much different from personal repos due to this flaw.14:27
TimB_I always like to try and see what somebody interested in trying CRUX out would think - or the casual user, if there are any using CRUX :P14:28
ryuowhy can't there be a policy for port repossession?14:28
ryuocontrib authors already have to agree to some rules.14:29
pedjawhen the ports gets orphaned, it's fair game. either someone picks it up, or it gets nuked14:29
ryuodefine "orphan"14:29
pedjamaintainer gives up on it, mostly14:30
ryuoi'd say lxc counts as orphaned.14:30
ryuothough tek_ still maintains other things.14:30
TimB_ryuo: well, technically I recall him saying he want's to take a look at it14:31
ryuothat was months ago.14:31
TimB_he just seems very busy with everything else14:31
ryuoand they never got back to me.14:31
TimB_yeah14:31
ryuoi'd like to see a policy where you can file a bug report for an issue with a package X.14:31
pedjathere is a bug for lxc on flyspray, assigned to him14:32
TimB_pedja: but it's open for too long14:32
TimB_with no action whatsoever14:32
ryuoif maintainer Y doesn't act on it, and it's a simple matter to patch, i think someon else should be allowed to fix it.14:32
TimB_why make ports in core/opt/contrib a "personal item" at all?14:33
TimB_isn't this a community effort after all?14:33
pedjaif the port or issue is significant enough, it gets patched by someone else.14:33
pedjaTimB_, check the maintainer line in core, it says 'CRUX system team'14:37
TimB_pedja: true, I forgot :P14:37
pedjasame goes for xorg14:38
TimB_I have to say, I barely ever walk into a xorg package I want to bump manually14:39
pedjaI stay away from core/xorg :)14:39
TimB_well I mostly try to at least.. :P14:40
TimB_had to bump openssl for something a long time ago14:40
pedja1.1 in 3.514:41
TimB_jep :)14:41
TimB_well nothing in opt/contrib seemed to have demanded a bump in 3.4 for it, so I just forked that and delete it when I update everything to 3.5 :) I only have one machine running 3.4 anyway14:43
pedjaI only have one machine, period14:43
pedjawell, I do have a netbook, but that's running Leap14:44
TimB_this makes it a lot easier :P when I was only maintaining my desktop I was doing stuff all over the place. I have a private git repo for my overlay now to organize everything.. else this would be complete madness :D14:46
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TimB_is there any fan of Karen O or Danger Mouse here (music)?15:02
TimB_or to phrase it differently: if somebody is interested in their latest album (Lux Prima) give me shout, I have one official code to give away15:09
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