IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2019-05-03

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pedjanvidia's 430.x driver will be the last to ship non-glvnd libs.07:03
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frinnstgo to bed08:19
frinnst:-)08:19
pedjaI fell asleep at ~8 last night, woke around midnight, ate and went back to bed. rise and shine at 6h this morning :)08:42
pedjaheh. msi 1080ti is 2100€ on amazon.de. yeah, that'll sell08:44
frinnstisnt 1080 like a few years old now?08:46
pedja2 years, I think, or something like that08:51
pedjaon the local e-bay-like site, they are 400-550€08:52
pedjamost of them labeled 'worked very little, in pristine condition' :)08:53
pedjait's old, but still one hell of the gpu. nvidia pulled it from the market for a reason, after 2000 series release08:57
pedjartx is, essentially, a gimmick. *might* be useful in a couple of years, for...something08:59
TimB_depending on the perspective, it's useful today as well, to harvest money09:00
pedjaaccording to GN data, nvidia has 85-95% of the market :)09:01
pedjaDIY/enthusiast/gamer market, but I suspect its similar in other areas09:02
pedjaAMD talked about 'greater product integration' recently, which, I guess, means bundling ryzen 3000s and navi.09:09
frinnstbored at work. i wanna go for a bike ride09:17
frinnstACTION bought a mtb09:17
TimB_frinnst: which one? something fancy?09:24
frinnstscott scale 900rc09:26
frinnst201609:26
TimB_29"?09:26
frinnstyeah09:26
TimB_cool09:26
frinnsthttps://imgur.com/a/Ziz4tOM09:27
frinnstlast rode in 1997 or something like that09:27
TimB_and you had to hurt yourself already? :P09:27
frinnst29" are crazy awesome09:27
frinnstobviously09:27
TimB_well, I advise for a good helmet :P I recently learned why I want to wear one09:28
TimB_bought a POC (swedish company)09:28
frinnstI bought it from my brother in law since he went full suspension09:28
TimB_looks like a great ride though09:28
TimB_in my wet dreams I ride a Nicolai09:29
frinnstgot a specialized helmet and some clothes with the deal. you can see my 1996 shimano spd shoes on the bottom picture :D09:29
frinnstthey are falling apart so I had to buy a new pair09:29
TimB_I don't like spds, tried them, crashed a several times including jumping inside a field of nettles - no thanks09:29
TimB_platform pedals are the way to go for me :)09:30
frinnsthehe yeah it always starts out with a slooooow fall09:30
frinnstbut you get used to them09:30
TimB_https://i.imgur.com/cZ5fvpW.jpg <- that's my big one :)09:31
frinnstsweet sweet09:31
frinnsthavent gotten my muddy yet :)09:31
TimB_platform pedals and good shoes are a sweet enough. I have a friend doing semi professional dh races and the whole team switched to spds ~.~ crazy stuff man09:31
TimB_not sure they kept that.. imagine fucking up mid air not being able to get out of the god damn pedals09:32
frinnstyeah but it becomes natural pretty quick, to twist out your heel when stepping off09:33
TimB_and yeah, true, the fall is very slow as you struggle to get free haha09:33
TimB_ok.. well maybe I wasn't determined enough09:33
frinnstyeah count with a few falls but after a month or so its the most natural thing ever09:35
TimB_mh, even my road bike has platform pedals :D09:36
TimB_frinnst: how do you like the new shifters? 1x?? what is it?09:42
frinnstoh god, dont ask about the specs. no clue09:57
frinnstxtr rear, one in front09:57
TimB_well I mean, mostly it's about not being able to shift in the front :)09:57
TimB_it became pretty common I think, never tried a drivetrain that was designed that way. But I switched to that just because the chain wheels are way too expansive :D10:00
frinnstyeah back in the 90's you pretty much only used the middle cog in front10:02
frinnstunless you were on the road10:03
frinnstbut 29" and these thick tyres are the biggest difference i find10:03
TimB_I imagine that they work better on the road10:05
frinnstalso a lot bigger travel on the suspension that makes quite the difference10:05
frinnstbut I need to buy a torque wrench. silly carbon10:05
frinnstspent about a months salary on bike stuff this week10:06
frinnstD;10:06
TimB_money well spent ;P10:06
frinnst(including bike)10:06
TimB_btw, get this torque wrench. when you will ever do a service on your fork you will need it as well10:06
frinnstACTION is expecting a link10:09
TimB_for a wrench? Uhm, I dunno. I think mine is a Hazet I bought used which will work for both inbus as well as hexagon sockets10:10
frinnst"btw, get this torque wrench." was expecting a product link :)10:11
TimB_let me have a look10:11
frinnsti need a troque for fucking everything. seatpost adjust? carbon, headpost? carbon handlebar? carbon10:12
TimB_what Nm do those get?10:12
TimB_5-10?10:12
frinnstyeah some stuff even lower i think10:12
TimB_yeah10:12
TimB_you might need two wrenches, not sure10:12
frinnstI havent looked over everything yet10:12
frinnstyep for sure. one for low and one for high10:13
frinnstdoesnt seem like there is one that can do everything10:13
TimB_https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-TW-5-2-Ratcheting/dp/B0029LKYOU/ref=sr_1_3?crid=37R6YP0UWK9IJ&keywords=park+tool+torque+wrench&qid=1556878325&s=gateway&sprefix=park+tool+tor%2Caps%2C246&sr=8-310:13
TimB_something like that could do the job, park tool is pretty good for bike tools10:13
TimB_else, look for Wera, Hazet, Wuerth if you want general quality. Cyclus Tools are great specialized tools as well10:17
TimB_maybe Romster has a tip as well?10:18
TimB_https://www.amazon.com/Wera-05075393001-Torque-Wrench/dp/B00BT0F7JE/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=wera+torque+wrench&qid=1556878558&s=gateway&sr=8-3 <- 1-25Nm is a great range10:19
TimB_bottom the bottom brackets need more, not sure what they take in a carbon frame though10:20
TimB_the problem with the range is that it gets less precise, and I heard from a friend that worked at a BMW shop that those parts even crack with a torque wrench from time to time.. so yeah :) be careful10:22
TimB_if I'm not mistaken, there is even a specialized paste you should apply before screwing two carbon parts together?10:23
pedjawhat, something like 3m's thread adhesive thingie?10:38
TimB_pedja: not exactly, more of like some kind of "grease"10:39
pedjawhat its supposed to do?10:39
TimB_https://www.galaxus.ch/en/s3/product/carbon-montagepaste-bike-maintenance-6051973 something like that10:40
TimB_pedja: not exactly sure, but I think it spreads the clamping power more evenly so you don't break one spot or something10:40
pedja'[...]increases friction between the two contact surfaces, so tightening requires considerably less force' interesting10:42
pedjamy co-worker was a bicycle freak. dropped a couple of thousand euros on some fancy, lightweight bike several years ago10:46
pedjacarbon fiber titanium whatever10:47
TimB_I remember seeing a titan sinter print frame some years back...10:48
pedjadidn't help with the drunker driver, thou10:48
TimB_ouch :/10:48
TimB_My experience shows: even wearing a bright orange jacket doesn't help if a driver just doesn't look10:49
pedjaor doesn't care10:49
pedjahere is even more dangerous, cities rarely have bicycle lanes10:50
TimB_lovely ~.~10:50
pedjathe 'thinking' is 'riding a bike? too poor to buy a car, eh?'11:06
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pedjaI gave up on the whole bicycle thing when I crashed riding a 4-wheel one when I was about...6 years old? not for me :)11:10
TimB_traumatized for life? :)11:11
pedjanah, I just suck at it :)11:12
TimB_almost a month ago I crashed and got stiched up in the face, now I own that helmet haha11:12
TimB_well, not everybody needs to bike :)11:12
pedjasmall town, so I walk pretty much everywhere11:13
TimB_that's also great :) I couldn't get by foot around here but with my bike I am almost faster than with a car when there is traffic. and faster than with the public transport for sure, those just suck around here11:14
pedjais there such a place where public transport doesn't suck? Scandinavia, maybe. or Japan11:18
TimB_I've visited Vienna once and it was pretty good there at the time11:19
pedjanow you mention it, trains in Italy were pretty punctual when I was there11:21
TimB_I think there are places that got it right11:22
TimB_here it's a private company, maximizing profit is the name of the game like always11:22
TimB_the people driving buses here are barely employees of the local public transport company, but outsourced to a personal service.. horrible11:23
TimB_in student networks they are called "the racing team" :)11:24
pedjawhere is that, .de?11:24
TimB_yes11:24
pedjalots of public transport drivers from here went there11:24
pedjabetter pay, better life11:24
pedjaGermany is go-to destination for generations :)11:25
TimB_at least that's whats promised, I wonder how that worked out. those personal service companies that now employ them don't give a single thought about anything else than profit11:25
frinnstnot sure I'd trust a tool with that wide a range of torque11:29
TimB_Wera is top shelf for a tool available on the open market. but I get you, I'd take two as well. My old hazet has 2-25Nm btw, I had a look out of curiosity :)11:30
frinnstyeah the reviews look good11:44
frinnstTimB_: are you running tubeless?11:57
TimB_frinnst: yes sir, on my DMR I do11:58
TimB_mavic crossmax rims and continental tyres11:58
frinnst<311:58
TimB_indeed11:59
TimB_tubeless is just great really, maintenance level is the same I'd say, with changing the "sealing milk" every now and then, but heck it feels great and it eats so much abuse12:00
frinnstyeah it's tempting to switch12:00
frinnstI just replaced my tyres the other day. my old racing ralph was a bit worn down. still tubes but I'm tempted to go tubeless after the next flat :-)12:01
TimB_I once crashed and had the tyre slip of the rim, had to carry my bike to the next gas station, after putting it back on "it just worked" again12:01
TimB_If I can suggest something it's the continentals12:02
TimB_the made in germany line is so good12:02
TimB_I was riding nobby nics and racing ralphs before my change to conti, can't look back :)12:02
frinnstwent for specialized renegade and whatever the front tyre is called12:02
TimB_what I've done to that "ruber queen" I have on my front tyre is simply torture12:03
frinnstfasttrack i think12:03
frinnstheh12:03
TimB_once went to fast downhill as third in line, the first one makes a turn to the left to go around, the second one goes to the right, I just rolled over that big tree stump ~.~ nothing happend besides my suspension eating up all that energy12:04
TimB_I really believe other tyres would have exploded on impact :D might be wrong though12:05
frinnstshit weather outside. like 7C D;12:06
TimB_there is no such thing as shit weather ;)12:06
frinnstI only have sunshine clothes right now :)12:08
TimB_he, okay. this might be a bit cold :D12:09
TimB_I still need to fix my bike after the crash, haven't touched it since, but maybe I can do it this weekend12:10
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pedjaACTION might check out The Battle Of the Nations tournament this weekend14:35
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stenurArg, PAM. I can change my passwd, but i cannot chsh.19:49
stenurIn effect though that all ends up in pam_unix.so, right?19:49
obarunstenur: i don't know well crux system but you should have a /etc/shells, in this file you should have the desire shell. Also when you change your shell you should log out and log in to apply the change20:02
stenurobarun: problem is chsh rejects to even enter a password for authentication20:02
obarundo you launch the command as simple user or root user?20:03
stenurThe user who wants to change its shell.20:06
obaruntry e.g as root : chsh -s /bin/zsh <user_name>20:07
obarunif it's doesn't work i cannot help more20:07
stenurYeah sure that works.  I would presume the first line of pam.d/chsh would be sufficient for that, no?20:09
frinnst works for me on 3.5. I havent touched pam20:10
stenurfrinnst: chsh from a normal user?20:11
frinnstyes20:11
frinnsthttps://e5b8dc7a83817ca1.paste.se/ pam.d/chsh20:11
stenurThat is the same i have, i have not changed anything there.20:13
TimB_works for me as well (prompts for password, or in my case my yubikey first)20:24
TimB_same pam.d/chsh20:24
stenurTimB_: really?? Wow, then. Here not.21:02
jaegerworks for me too21:06
TimB_is /var/log/auth saying anything?21:08
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stenurnot really. i can sudo and anything. if i copy over pam.d/sudo to pam.d/chsh it still will not do21:12
TimB_weird21:12
stenurMore so: chfn works: https://74e74ed01dc82181.paste.se21:22
stenurWell i don't mind.21:26
stenurAs long as root can.21:26
stenurHave it!! I had installed contrib/mksh without running post-install..21:30
stenurand manually set that in passwd for me..21:31
TimB_:)21:31
stenurand chsh will plain fail to do anything in that case.21:31
stenurIs a bug in chsh, no?21:32
stenurTimB_: ha!21:32
TimB_I dunno21:32
TimB_D:21:32
stenurAnyway, manually adding /bin/mksh to /etc/shells, and now chsh works.21:33
stenurTimB_: it could at least give a reasonable reason, instead of "can't change shell for xy"21:34
stenurOk that it doesn't allow setting anything anew if not in /etc/shells,21:36
stenurbut .... well; it now works.21:36
stenurAn admin would have found it immediately i guess.  Just missing the nose here.21:37
TimB_I agree with giving a more helpful output if it fails21:39
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stenurI swear on Schwalbe Marathon for bicycle tires.21:47
stenurThey are so down i am on the puncture protection on the rear.21:48
TimB_I once had a schwalbe nobby nic burst within the first 50km of its life. I hate them since then ;)21:48
TimB_marathons are good, still not the best in its field imo21:49
TimB_stenur: it that state, please change it even if it will stay a marathon :D21:50
stenurI have this pair for three years, this makes thousands kilometres, mostly street but also field.21:50
TimB_there is a "cross country" variant of marathons21:50
stenurWell, have to.  Changed front and back last year.21:50
stenurMine are street.21:51
TimB_https://www.continental-tires.com/bicycle/tires/city-trekking-tires/top-contact2 I'd get that one21:54
pedjajoacim, looking to buy a server? https://www.labgopher.com/21:54
stenurAha. Sounds good. I have this small old store here, they have Schwalbe. :)21:57
stenurHe is still alive and well even without offering electric bikes.21:58
stenurI don't know how he accomplishes that here.21:58
TimB_money laundry21:59
TimB_:P21:59
stenurHAhaha!21:59
joacimoh bicycle talk21:59
stenurOrdinary people.21:59
TimB_Generationenvertrag for pension isn't safe anymore as well, so you have to take care of stuff, right? :P21:59
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stenurThey have no parachute for sure.22:00
joacimhttps://www.panaracer.com/lineup/gravel.html22:00
joacimi want the gravelking, or the sk variant22:00
joacimthey seem so very comfortable to ride on22:00
stenurWe also have other shops here, with Stevens and whatever. But i stay with him.22:01
joacimnot much of a puncture danger here, so riding lighter softer tires tend to work well i think22:01
stenurThis website enters endless redirection loop for me.22:01
joacimmy current bike just has some 700x32 commuter tires22:01
joacimhard riding, but they were cheap22:02
joacimpedja: those prices are pretty damn cheap22:02
joacimim not in the market for old servers like those tho =)22:03
stenurCheap seems to be relative.. :)22:03
joacimthinking 20 euro or so22:03
joacimthink panaracer tires tend to sit around 50 maybe22:04
pedja#CruxUsersBikeSociety22:06
joacimmight get a bike later this month22:06
joacimif the store can follow up on their promise to get a frame size sutiable for 188cm people22:06
joacimalready bought myself a light tent and sleeping bag for bikepacking =)22:07
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stenurGreat, kitchen cleaning without stool.22:07
stenurThat is a great thing.22:07
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stenurNever did it myself.  Some kind of real freedom.22:09
stenurWith bike overland.22:09
stenurIn the summer when the days are very long i can do day trips to Rheinland-Pfalz, over the Rhine.22:10
joacimmostly i just go for short rides around the city22:10
stenurOr deep into the Odenwald, the other side.22:10
joacimcould use my current bike for bikepacking too, but i could always use an excuse to get new stuff22:10
stenurMe too; what can be reached within two or three hours. Even less in winter.22:11
stenurIn effect even less, i like going up hills, so only a few real locations, but in summer.22:12
joacimgot nothing but hills :(22:13
stenurI will keep this bike forever.  The geometry is perfect for me, i never had to stand even in the wildest ramps we have.22:13
stenurReally? Boah!! :)22:13
joacimmine isnt perfect. think i could do with a frame a few cm larger22:14
joacimit is an old frame tho, and comfortable enough with a longer post22:14
stenurOn the other hand, it boosted my endurance enormously once i changed to just going longer.22:15
stenurBut back to hills asap.22:15
stenurNo i am happy. The frame is German, alloy, azurro, and with weld seams so beautiful as they can be.22:16
stenurAnything else is Japanese.22:16
TimB_bikepacking? I also love the idea! :)22:17
stenurReally.  The time they took to polish those weld seams.22:17
TimB_never done it myself either, but I should some time22:17
TimB_stenur: a german made frame? It's old then or nicolai...22:17
stenurTimB_: no, it is a Hartje Atrato Travel22:18
stenurIt is old, but for me.22:20
stenurI am not the fastest anyway.  I know almost all horses, sheeps, cows and their farmers along all the ways i drive.22:21
TimB_stenur: cool! I know there are a lot smaller companies doing small quant. but the only one producing a considerable number is nicolai that I know of22:21
TimB_others market with that but they are actually made in taiwan ~.~22:21
stenurHmm, my store has one from Schweinfurt, let me have a look22:21
TimB_had one "manufacture" on the phone while looking at their website asking for their welding expert they quoted and had a picture on. the guy on the other line then explained it's just for show, lol22:22
stenurAnything small is dying, that is a pity.22:24
stenurBut Stevens is big, is it?22:25
TimB_yeah, sad but true22:25
TimB_Stevens? I'd say so22:25
stenurWell my little store is still grumbling, because he bought some tools just for the front fork.22:27
stenurOf my bike. And another one. He sold just two of us.22:27
stenurNo but the painting and the weld seams they are fantastic, really.22:27
stenurI mean: this is really expensive stuff to do!22:28
stenurLook at BMW under the hood.  And they are damn rich.22:28
TimB_https://i2.wp.com/i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo264/attitudebikes/Nicolai%202011%20build/DSC_0264.jpg look, this is what I am dreaming about22:28
stenurNooooo.22:30
stenurManual anyway.22:30
TimB_you mention great welding :P22:30
TimB_But yeah, specialized tools are a pita. If I ever want to open up the brackets on my rims I would need a special dt swiss tool for ~150bucks last time I checked22:31
stenurNot bad those. But despite not being able to do that myself, i have seen a lot of great weld seams. The father of a girl friend of mine did so, and i read motorbike magazines for a long time22:36
TimB_:)22:36
stenurUnfortunately Google globbers anything with BMW Ninet, but here is https://www.buzzfeed.com/de/maximilianzender/schweissschweissbaby22:36
stenurThese are great.22:37
TimB_welding porn is great22:37
stenurYes. Pure passion what some guys22:37
stenur++produce. Number 10 of that, that comes near my Hartje.22:38
stenurThere is painting on top.22:38
stenurBut number 10 comes near the frame that i have; there was a great guy who did really really great.22:38
stenurI keep that thing until i die, even if a buy a Bianchi on top someday.22:40
stenurJust to honour him that is. Who knows, maybe he has to work at DHL or whatever today.22:41
TimB_Bianchi <322:42
TimB_I had a italian gf once that thought me the right way to pronounce it :P still, she always started swearing when I was mentioning every bianchi I saw while with her :D22:43
stenur:)22:44
TimB_what can I say, velophiles do what velophiles do :P22:48
stenurThat is true.22:48
stenurThough it got better. As a young boy i rolled the (80ccm) motorbike through the flat just to look at it for hours.22:49
stenurA former friend had his Moto Guzzi right beside the bed.22:50
stenurFront left Moto Guzzi, front right Aquarium, girl friend in the middle.22:51
stenurHumans are visual creatures.22:51
TimB_:D22:52
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