IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2019-08-04

frinnstweednix: nice00:01
frinnstextra thumbs up for libre :)00:01
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weednixthanks frinnst :P00:03
weednixI found that I should run openvpn as a user, then visited freeopenvpn.org if I'm not in error, downloaded a config and tryed,... was expecting it was as simple as that :P00:05
frinnstnot sure how well linux libre would work on my hardware00:09
frinnstwould probably  create some gpu problems (amd)00:09
ryuofrinnst: probably not very well. anything requiring firmware is likely out.00:10
ryuoit means no microcode updates, no firmware for drivers.00:11
ryuolet alone no proprietary apps.00:11
ryuoi consider it impractical to go fully libre.00:12
weednixI had to scavange current wifi on this laptop to be able to use.00:12
ryuowhat vendor?00:12
ryuomany vendors use whitelists to make that impossible.00:12
john_cephalopodaI think the only blob I am using is iwlwifi (intel wifi)00:12
ryuolast i checked AMD, nouveau, and newer intel all use firmware blobs.00:13
weednixcurrent is atheros (? spelling hilfe)00:13
ryuoweednix: oh, i meant the laptop.00:13
weednixis a magalhaes00:13
ryuoi only know for sure that Dell doesn't use whitelists.00:13
ryuonever heard of that.00:13
ryuoprobably some remote one that rebadges another vendor's machines such as Clevos.00:14
frinnstamdgpu can somewhat handle not having any firmware00:14
weednixis a laptop from portugal, is very resistant is a intel N450, I put 2G ram and this wifi and it rocks.00:15
frinnstbut many useful features goes out the window. KMS for example00:15
john_cephalopodaryuo: Huh, didn't know that nouveau used a blob.00:15
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: it does, for newer hardware.00:15
ryuohttps://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/00:16
ryuosee: "External firmware"00:16
weednix:(00:16
ryuothough seems it's primarily for the video hardware acceleration.00:16
ryuoweednix: you still use something that ancient? wow.00:16
weednixI stop buying hardware, people this days just drop laptops ...00:17
ryuodrop as in... sell them off or literally drop?00:17
john_cephalopodaryuo: But does it ship with it or is it a compile-time option that is off by default?00:17
weednixmostly this days i5 and old model with 2 core or something00:17
john_cephalopodaI'dd guess it's the latter, for license reasons, but not sure.00:17
weednixdrop...00:17
ryuojohn_cephalopoda: no idea. i don't use it. i just know it needs it to be fully functional.00:17
weednixmost of them are not in perfect state ... old for people standards ... ...00:18
ryuoweednix: i see. i got through rebuilding some latitudes from 2012-2013 era.00:18
ryuoivy bridge.00:18
ryuopretty decent linux support.00:18
ryuoE5530 was pretty nice to rebuild.00:19
ryuoalso been working on a 6475b probook00:19
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weednix:) it seems I get more pleasure this days re-using this machines...00:20
ryuoweednix: fair enough. you're probably better off waiting for this speculative execution crap to be properly fixed.00:21
weednixI need to buy a router to connect them by cable00:21
ryuoweednix: don't you already have a router?00:21
weednixryuo: :D I have a k7 working by the way, use diskets00:21
ryuotalking about old... you'd probably like this then.00:22
weednixryuo: the ones I have are not reliable and the one connected to the internet only have one ethernet connection00:22
ryuohttps://monotech.fwscart.com/NuXT_-_MicroATX_Turbo_XT_-_955MHz,_832K_RAM,_XT-CF,_SVGA,_Floppy,_Serial/p6083514_19777986.aspx00:22
ryuoweednix: i see. for expanding your ethernet network you can use a switch instead if you already have a router.00:23
weednixI asked on the local shop, they call it a router, so ... since they don't let me see the box,,, I will also call it ... router ...00:23
weednixI'm sure is just a switch00:24
ryuoa switch only transfers traffic within the same network.00:24
ryuoa router allows you to transfer traffic between networks.00:24
ryuoswitches are effectively the same as software bridges as far as networking goes.00:25
ryuoyou can put physical ports in a bridge to connect them like they're in a switch.00:25
ryuoit's common for routers to include both if they're an ISR.00:26
weednixwow ryuo :P00:26
weednixI was looking at that ....00:26
ryuoit's a new build but it uses very early PC hardwar.00:26
frinnstswitches and routers can get a bit blurry00:27
frinnstespecially when talking layer3. they are pretty much just routers00:27
ryuoyes, but main difference is what kind of networks they connect to.00:27
ryuoerr connect together00:27
ryuoin the home, you're unlikely to have a layer 3 switch though.00:27
ryuomost of them it's just a dumb switch, the unmanaged kind.00:28
ryuos/them/time/00:28
ryuothey're literally plug and play.00:28
ryuono configuration.00:28
ryuobut routers.00:29
ryuoi always use openwrt compatible stuff thes days.00:29
ryuoopenwrt isn't the greatest but it helps reduce what i have to maintain and it's updateable.00:29
ryuoit's far superior to vendor firmware.00:29
ryuoand you can build it yourself from scratch if you have cause to.00:29
weednixryuo: humm interesting00:30
ryuoweednix: openwrt?00:30
weednixbuild from scratch thing, the openwrt is old on my wish list ...00:31
ryuoit's an option, not one i suggest if the official builds are good enough.00:31
ryuobecause openwrt actually has packages you can install to extend it00:31
ryuoif you've got a place to put them...00:31
weednixhow much cost this days a openrt compatible one on the internet ?00:31
ryuodepends on the model.00:32
ryuowhat features you want will dictate the cost the most.00:32
ryuogigabit is fairly affordable but more expensive than 10/100 routers.00:32
weednix:}00:32
ryuoalso how new the wifi is.00:32
ryuoand other hardware specs.00:32
weednixwifi for me is optional ... really...00:33
ryuobut pretty much all of them come with it these days.00:33
weednixwold use other computer or router connected to that one or other computer00:33
ryuoif you have the budget to burn, you could always get a turia omnia, probably the high end of openwrt.00:33
ryuo$300+00:34
ryuoBut i've seen compatible ones as low at $15 new.00:34
ryuoused is also an option.00:34
ryuobut the $15 ones are extremely bare.00:34
ryuolow flash capacity and RAM.00:34
ryuoopenwrt requires at least 4MB of flash, and that's barely enough.00:35
ryuomy current openwrt router is an N270 with 2G of RAM.00:35
ryuoit has gigabit NICs and a wifi card for AP mode.00:35
ryuono switch.00:36
ryuoi use an external one for that.00:36
ryuolargely a custom built.00:36
ryuobuild00:36
weednixN270 is intel atom ?00:36
ryuoyes, an older one.00:36
weednix:D00:36
ryuoi bought some routers people were ditching because pfsense dropped 32 bit support.00:36
ryuobut openwrt doesn't care.00:36
ryuoin fact, if you needed the raw power, an alix APU2 router would probably be the best option.00:37
ryuolow power AMD build. coreboot.00:37
ryuohas hardware AES, useful for stuff like VPNs.00:37
weednixI must learn the new iptables by the way... but I'm not a heavy network guy, just a user/messer...00:37
ryuonftables?00:38
weednixyes00:38
weednixI keep using iptables scripts done by hand ... :/00:38
ryuopeople still use iptables for now.00:38
ryuoit's not going anywhere.00:38
ryuoa lot of tools still generate iptables stuff.00:38
ryuoi only see nftables replacing it if enough software makes the switch.00:39
weednixso, any computer can be used is just the question of the network cards00:39
ryuoin theory, yes. it largely depends on available hardware.00:40
ryuobut integrated solutions offer advantages, notably low power dedicated hardware.00:40
weednixLePotato if I'm not in error says conssumes 1W, I use a laptop as my server,00:42
weednixBut is ARM and, since I like to document everything and so on, if I start playing with ARM I will have double work I have now XD00:43
weednixA decent router and well configured ARM, later solar and batteries ...00:44
weednix... then is only internet connection ...00:44
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weednixryuo: that kit is super compeling to learn00:46
ryuoweednix: the PC clone?00:47
weednixyes :)00:48
weednixsince is more simple, the co-processor is optional :P like the original ...00:50
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: [notify] qt5: QTBUG-76625 Generated la files are invalid04:35
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: wine: 4.12.1 -> 4.1306:04
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: steam: 1.0.0.59 -> 1.0.0.6109:11
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weednixMorning Crux'ers :)11:55
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: tcl-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: slang-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: popt-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: openssl1-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libunistring-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libtool-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libpsl-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libnewt-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libndp-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libdaemon-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libcanberra-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libcaca-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: jq-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: jansson-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: cups-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: avahi-32: initial import12:29
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: pango-32: 1.42.4 -> 1.44.212:29
TimB_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)12:29
weednix:)12:31
TimB_hey weednix12:32
Romsterhi weednix12:32
Romsteri need a cider after all that testing12:32
weednixhello, :D Romster  was just thinking to do that12:32
weednixI discover I can't run bitcoin on this laptop and I should use wasabi :P12:33
weednixbut will finish bitcoin thing anyway,12:34
weednixI need to research again how contrib repository works,12:35
weednixI'm thinking to move the port's I have to my branch of contrib12:35
weednixthat wold make easy if someone wish to "import/merge" the ports and improve them ?12:36
TimB_why not maintain yourself in contrib directly? maintaining something without caring for it in the slightest is a bit of a rough job to do, speaken from my point of view.12:37
weednixyep, I had a separate ... at the time seem to me more simple ...12:40
TimB_yeah, I noticed you maintain quiet a lot by yourself12:41
weednixyes, I endup doing this ...12:42
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weednixwhy others then don't also use contrib ?12:49
weednixbecome to huge and hard to maintain ?12:49
Romsteri dunno12:49
Romsterbut i do a ton in contrib12:49
weednixok, will copy and add the "ports" collection I have into contrib,12:51
TimB_I want to put some more stuff to contrib as well. But I need to work a bit more on my collection :)12:52
weednixor maybe only the ports I consider more "stable",... because then, to many commit's12:52
weednixTimB_: different branch, development ...12:52
TimB_weednix: I don't think this is how contrib works12:53
TimB_I do that all on my local overlay12:54
weednixI mean a branch different from upstream ones, I think as usual I will use two for me, one for testing and other stable.12:55
weednixTimB_: what is "local overlay" ?12:56
TimB_you mean for you to merge back your work into upstream contrib?12:56
TimB_I created a dir /usr/ports/overlay and some more from time to time12:56
TimB_had everything indicators in /usr/ports/indicators for example when I started working on them12:56
weednixI use git branches, I have a "build machine" traciking stable-3.4, on my laptop I use develop branch and master, when I think is fine I merge into stable-3.4 and then all the other machines get the updates from pkg-get12:59
weednixlatelly I stop using master and develop, I will start using them for 3.512:59
TimB_I try to run everything through a clean lxc container and see what I can rattle out. Got some great tips on the topic from romster this weekend.. got some ports to check now :)13:00
TimB_but I don't have a build machine, strongest box I own is my desktop that does most of the work13:01
weednixTimB_: my build machine is a virtual machine inside a half broken laptop, just want him far from me, to hot and noisy... and being far seems to don't inflict pain in me to build things.13:02
weednixI don't yet got into containers :'(13:02
TimB_ah13:02
TimB_lxc is great13:02
weednixI know they use name spaces ? to isulate processes13:03
weednix*isolate processes , and I guess disk two ?13:03
weednix*to13:03
TimB_I have an updated port in my personal repo, and some documentation that makes for a quick start: https://nullvoid.de/crux/lxc-container/13:03
TimB_cgroup, yes13:04
weednixThanks TimB_ , and that's make's me once for all create a page with links to other crux pages ...13:04
TimB_what do you mean with disk two?13:04
weednixa process inside a container have different view of the disk other process outside ? or they share the same ?13:04
TimB_it's isolated13:05
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jolupahi! how is going!!13:08
weednixTimB_: There is nothing on this page. :D13:08
TimB_weednix: where? the link I posted?13:10
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jolupaQuick question, I think, with the last pango update... I'm trying to rebuild xfce4-settings with the colord support and now the build tells me it can't find libpangocairo-1.0.la13:10
jolupaSearch on the net but nothing comes...13:10
TimB_oh, my startpage :P13:10
TimB_jolupa: hi, i'm about to put indicators to contrib soon, fyi13:11
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jolupa@TimB_  Uo cool!! It works something near perfect obinslab with that apps.. Now only segfaults when I press the systray icon... XD13:12
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jolupaThe last pango update is crappy... Vim and Gvim are showing only squares for fonts!!13:13
TimB_some stuff broke for me too with pango :) that's how life goes13:14
weednixTimB_: yep,,, added to https://hive.gnu.systems/wiki/Main/Cruxdir13:14
TimB_no idea for the segfault, but they had some quirks Romster helped to polish out13:14
weednixany sugestions to other pages add on comments, no need to register ...13:14
jolupaAnd the xfce panel that shows the number of windows you have openned now only shows garbage...13:15
jolupaI think I will revert to 1.43...13:15
TimB_weednix: https://crux.ster.zone/13:15
TimB_jolupa: don't resist, rebuild ;D13:15
jolupaI rebuild pango 1.44 ten times since this morning... Later I see the chaos in the pango gitlab... My god!13:17
TimB_not pango :D all that pango broke of course13:17
TimB_run revdep13:17
jolupanop.. revdep don't tell me nothing. It says all is ok13:18
TimB_that's weird13:18
TimB_I have no problems with pango updated and rebuild some stuff after a reboot13:18
jolupabut that library libpangocairo-1.0.la is not in my install...13:18
TimB_that was promoted on the ml and so on, one sec13:19
jolupathere's a lot of libpangocairo.so but no .la13:20
TimB_for f in $(grep -lrs libpangocairo-1.0.la /usr/lib); do pkginfo -o $f | awk '!/^Package/ {print $1}'; done | sort -u13:20
TimB_try that13:20
TimB_that's the current problem with la files..13:20
jolupaok... is searching..13:21
TimB_search that for anything that comes up with .la files13:22
TimB_s/search/save/13:22
TimB_it's that, or this here https://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux/2019-July/006318.html13:23
TimB_mine will rebuild all the ports in one go13:23
Romsterthose squares are glyphs it can't fine a font that has that codepage in it13:27
Romsterfine/find13:27
RomsterTimB_,  yours needs prt-get cache before you can use prt-cache13:28
Romstersince ports -u changes stuff13:28
TimB_right13:33
jolupaSo if I make this... prt-get update -fr for f in $(grep -lrs libpangocairo-1.0.la /usr/lib);do pkginfo -o $f | awk '!/^Package/{print $1}'; done | sort -u gives me an error telling me: bash: syntax error near unexpected token `do'13:39
jolupasorry for my ignorance but programing is not my strenght... :(13:40
jolupaI make another revdep... And all is ok...13:40
TimB_you can take mine if you want13:40
TimB_it does what you want13:41
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jolupa@TimB_ the one in the link?13:44
TimB_yes, the one i posted on the mailing list13:44
TimB_change the .la file it checks for13:45
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jolupaI put the one in the mailing list and gives an error prt-cache update take at least 1 argument...13:49
jolupaI change prt-cache for prt-get and the error is the same...13:49
TimB_did you change the .la file it checks for..?13:52
jolupayes13:52
TimB_mh, no idea now13:53
TimB_have you been able to fix those ports the first command reported?13:53
jolupathe first you posted is still working... didn't show nothing right now... I don't now is hanged..13:55
jolupaops! one moment...13:55
jolupaWith the first command now I have a list of pkgs... I have to rebuild all that?13:56
TimB_yeah13:56
TimB_have fun :)13:56
jolupamy there's a lot... Ok... let's go for a coffe! XD13:57
TimB_have a good one ^^13:58
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jolupaok I think is a problem with xfce... all the xfce packages rebuilding are asking for libpangocairo-1.0.la14:05
jolupalet's them finish and make another round...14:05
Romsteryeah have to do a few rounds sometimes14:06
Romsterand may be other la files too.14:06
Romsteri'll be happy when libtool is burred14:06
TimB_same14:07
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: libindicator-gtk3: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: libindicator-gtk2: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: libido3: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: wayland-protocols: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: wayland: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-xml-sax: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-xml-sax-base: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-xml-namespacesupport: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-xml-libxml: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-sort-versions: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-path-tiny: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-file-which: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-file-chdir: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-ffi-checklib: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-capture-tiny: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-alien-libxml2: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-alien-build: initial commit14:16
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: openssl1: initial commit14:16
TimB_cruxbot: there were more, admit it!14:17
Romsteryeah that's what i thought14:17
jaegerIt got throttled by the server14:17
jaegerthey show up in the bot's log14:17
TimB_:D14:17
TimB_pedja: indicators are in contrib14:17
joacimhow does freenode decide what is spam and what isnt?14:33
joacimhow fast the bot posts?14:33
jaegerseems to be a rate limiting thing. up to a point it silently ignores the messages... if they're too fast it closes the connection14:34
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: networkmanager-32: initial import14:39
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: dbus-glib-32: initial import14:39
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: steam-native-runtime: initial-commit14:43
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libva1-32: initial import15:20
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: wayland-32: initial import15:20
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: rtmpdump-32: initial import15:20
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: libva1: add missing dependency15:24
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libudev0-shim-32: initial import15:32
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libgudev-32: initial import15:32
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libnl-32: initial import15:48
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libsdl2-32: initial import15:48
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jolupaOk! I'm reducing the list of packages to rebuild... XD16:25
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: dracut: initial import, version 04816:40
jolupaAh! only 3 packages left... graphviz, but I think is a more serious problem with pango 'cause is throwing errors of deprecated things in pango... imagemagick is a problem with the url and pygtk looks too more serious 'cause are deprecated function in pango too... I take a look later.16:51
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deep42thoughtHi, since my last update/reboot, several programs (pidgin, lazarus, simple graphical programs compiled with fpc) don't display any letters anymore - I'm left with these boxes containing the raw code. Exemplarily, I recompiled pidgin and several of its dependencies to no avail - any idea where I should look?17:44
deep42thoughtI should note: I'm not really familiar with fonts under X and I actually don't really care, how the font looks as long as it shows letters instead of boxes :_D17:45
deep42thought:_D17:45
deep42thought:-D17:45
deep42thoughtgimp has broken fonts, too17:46
deep42thoughthttps://eckner.net/2019-08-04_3360x1080.png17:47
TimB_deep42thought: hello, something something libpangocairo-1.0.la missing? :)17:48
deep42thoughtI knew it ...17:48
deep42thoughtACTION should have re-read the mailing list17:48
deep42thoughtThanks, TimB_!17:48
TimB_also: you maintain kde5 ports, right? I adopted wayland and put that to contrib today17:48
joacimdo you use font types that arent supported by some library anymore?17:48
joacimthe one library a lot of projects also depends on?17:48
TimB_me?17:49
joacimno the guy with the font rpoblems17:49
TimB_ah lol, didn't notice the nick changed :P17:49
TimB_I think I'm done with today17:49
joacimi think support for pixmap fonts got dropped, as certain key projects switched to a library that dont support those types of fonts17:51
joacimno idea if it is a planned change, or if it already happened17:52
deep42thoughtjoacim: it is planned, I think17:52
deep42thoughtah, misread, sry17:52
deep42thoughtit already happened17:52
deep42thoughtby plan17:52
deep42thought... that't what I meant17:52
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jolupsThie pango affair!18:03
deep42thoughthopefully, rebuilding all the wrongly-linking-against-*.la packages helps for me :-)18:04
jolupsAfter a lot of rebuilding to me too.... Only gvim is hesitant... I loaded a default font...18:05
jolupsI was reading the rants from user in the pango gitlab and is amazing, as I see, the superiority of some of the gnome dev... They can't admit that they made something wrong...18:07
pedja1.44.3 should fix some font issues https://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/pango/1.44/pango-1.44.3.news18:14
pedjaand gimp build18:14
jolupsBut they put a lot of users in a worry... My god!18:19
jolupsnick jolupa18:22
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pedjayay, finally gimp builds18:29
pedjathat concludes pango*.la removal breakage adventure18:29
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pedjainterestingly enough, after pango update, only application that started rendering fonts slightly differently was hexchat, with source sans otf18:40
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pedjaah, so pango is no longer using freetype for fonts? interesting18:43
jolupaIf someone is interested and didn't read it... https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pango/issues/38618:48
pedjahttps://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2019/05/25/pango-future-directions/18:54
pedjafrom a developer POV, makes sense to be lazy and reuse the library that is actively maintained :)18:56
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deep42thoughtpidgin still only shows boxes :-(19:14
pedjadeep42thought, either try using a 21st century font, or bump locally and install pango-1.44.3 :)19:22
deep42thoughtI'll go the recent-font way19:22
deep42thoughtany tip which font to use?19:23
deep42thought(I don't really care which font it is :-D)19:23
pedjaI use source pro sans, but there are a lot of quality fonts19:23
pedjaubuntu or google ones are nice, apparently19:23
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t58Is there a way to rebuild and reinstall all packages?19:47
deep42thoughtprt-get update -fr $(prt-get listinst)19:47
t58cheers19:48
deep42thoughtnp19:48
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: discount: switch to shared library21:21
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: pango: updated to 1.44.322:15
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