IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2019-10-10

Spoofingcrux have no iptables rc.d script to store/restore rules, what is right way to do this? using rc.local for store on-the-fly?01:47
jaegerYou could use rc.local or make an rc script, either way01:54
jaegerOr even put it in /etc/rc.d/net01:54
jaegerUp to you01:54
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SiFuhjaeger: cool. I wonder how he went with his sshd03:14
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: qownnotes: 19.10.1 -> 19.10.305:25
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-role-tiny: 2.001001 -> 2.00100305:30
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: p5-datetime-locale: 1.22 -> 1.2505:30
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frinnsthttps://pythonclock.org/08:57
also_uplimei hope they wrote it in python 209:00
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: cups-filters: update to 1.25.1009:31
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pedja_hpminihttps://www.anandtech.com/show/14938/supermicro-expands-european-manufacturing-operations11:37
pedja_hpminididn't know that supermicro had any presence in EU, tbh11:40
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raph_aelnice to read12:15
pedja_hpminiCutress wrote an excellent article about intel vs amd turbo, and the recent drama about it12:22
lealaps1hello, can you recommend some good server rack cabinet for home use? I have a few 1u switches, routers etc and they start to pile up :D12:25
lealaps1by 'you' I mean anyone :D12:25
frinnstikea lack-rack12:36
frinnsthttps://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack12:36
frinnstif its only switches and other light weight stuff12:36
lealaps1yeah, just switches, etc12:38
lealaps1thanks for the idea12:38
lealaps1ok, it also needs to be cat-proof12:39
pedja_hpminis/toshiba/kioxia12:40
lealaps1LackRack does not seem to be :D12:40
frinnstyou can probably find simple comm racks that are lockable etc in any local hardware shop12:40
lealaps1sure, I was wondering if there are any exceptional cabinets, but if does not make any difference, then I'll just find whatever12:41
pedja_hpminicat "owner": "I got some cat-proof gear." cat: "Challenge accepted."12:43
lealaps1:D12:44
raph_aellealaps1: lackrack but nailed to ceiling13:05
lealaps1still not sure if cat-proof :D13:06
lealaps1cats like high places13:06
lealaps1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YYBvjFAvJQ13:06
lealaps1anything that won't hold up to 5kg body slam or containing holes larger than 4cm in diameter would be compromised13:09
pedja_hpmini:)13:11
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abenzhttps://pcpartpicker.com/list/Hg67Pn13:45
abenzfeedback most welcome13:45
pedja_hpminiis 'I am jealous' considered as feedback :) ?13:49
abenzpedja_hpmini: I will buy this in parts (case, psu first).. and mobo/ram/cpu in a few months time13:50
abenzjust saying that in case you think I burn cash left and right ;)13:51
pedja_hpminiheh13:51
pedja_hpminimy 'when I win the lottery' list is pretty similar, just with more ram and nvidia 2070 super13:53
pedja_hpminilike it or not, cuda rules compute14:00
raph_aelfun, nowadays desktop pcs are almost more expensive than laptops14:00
pedja_hpminidiy always is14:01
pedja_hpminiiStuff excluded :)14:02
pedja_hpmini1k$ for a monitor stand is...silly14:06
pedja_hpminione of the more interesting comments in HN thread on Huawei Matebook was14:11
pedja_hpmini"I won't buy it, because that would mean I support design theft from apple"14:11
raph_aelahah14:27
raph_aelpedja_hpmini: long time ago, even diy pc were far cheaper than laptops14:27
jaegerabenz: looks reasonable... I might suggest 2 changes which are purely subjective choices - I'd go with an M.2 SSD so no cables would be needed, and maybe a slightly larger CPU cooler (by larger I mean 140mm fans, not just larger for size's sake :))14:42
jaegerhaving used the NH-U12S in the past, though, it'll certainly work great14:45
pedja_hpminidoesn't 3900x come with the wraith cooler?14:49
pedja_hpminior is it the case of 'better the cooling, higher the core boost'?14:52
jaegerIt does come with one but yeah, your max speeds are directly affected by better cooling. Also larger fans generally run quieter, though the NH-U12S is by no means loud14:55
dlcusaTimB_, frinnst, libreoffice's configure uses 'test -f "$1" && test -x "$1"' on /usr/bin/qmake-qt5, and opt/qt5 installed my symlink.  It looks like opt/qt5 or contrib/libreoffice needs some remediation or at least a README..14:57
TimB_dlcusa: have you run this upstream with lo? you are the only one experiencing it so far15:02
TimB_romster maintains qt5, and builds lo with the port i maintain as far as i know15:02
dlcusaSo what does test -f /usr/bin/qmake-qt5 produce on flying-saucer, or ls -lh /usr/bin/qmake-qt5?15:04
TimB_test -f returns nothing15:05
TimB_lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Okt  8 19:31 /usr/bin/qmake-qt5 -> ../lib/qt5/bin/qmake15:05
dlcusa$? is what matters.15:05
TimB_dlcusa: what do you mean with '$?'?15:10
TimB_oh, you mean exit status, sorry :)15:10
joacimi am very happy with both my my nh-u12s variants15:10
TimB_and on noctua, saw the all black edition on linus tech tips yesterday, looks mighty fine, i'm very tempted with this one15:11
dlcusaWell, this is a puzzlement-- it's true when I run it from the command line, but fails dependably in the configure script.15:12
dlcusausing /bin/sh -c also produces a true result.  I will add some more debugging code to configure and report back.15:19
TimB_just for my amusement, did you try "prt-get remove qt5; prt-get install libreoffice" once?15:22
dlcusaNo, but for your amusement, I'll test it.15:23
dlcusaMust it be install?  I'm trying to update since I'm using what's installed.15:24
TimB_no15:24
TimB_update is fine15:24
TimB_just to know if it would fail for you even though qt5 is not around15:25
dlcusaI agree that could be a significant datum.15:28
dlcusaFirst, though, I'll try a run after symlinking /bin/sh to /bin/bash instead of dash--that datum would be even more significant.15:31
TimB_true, but since it builds on a clean install w/o problems...15:32
dlcusaIsn't dash symlinked by core?15:32
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dlcusaYes, core/dash owns the /bin/sh symlink.15:36
pedja_hpminiyou could try 'CONFIG_SHELL=/bin/bash ./configure', but I am not sure that's the issue15:39
dlcusaI may try that later if bash's internal test produces true.  Configure is very smart about figuring out what shell it's using without CONFIG_SHELL.15:43
pedja_hpmininot in my experience, sometimes it needs a nudge/kick to behave :)15:45
dlcusaIt's clearly not yet perfect since I found those '==' operators in some test commands.15:46
dlcusaI wonder if they're new in 6.3.2.2...15:46
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dlcusaTimB_, frinnst, pedja_hpmini, a literally closer look has revealed the defect: the 'as_dummy="$QT5DIR/bin:$PATH " statement sets the PATH to be searched.16:44
TimB_dlcusa: so export QT5DIR=/usr/lib/qt516:46
TimB_?16:46
dlcusaThat trailing space becomes the last character of the last directory in the path, for me, /usr/bin, for TimB, not /usr/bin.16:46
dlcusaMy old eyes glossed over that space in 'test /usr/bin /qmake-qt5'.16:49
TimB_dlcusa: that really should go upstream16:49
TimB_if they didn't know already16:49
TimB_<.<16:49
dlcusaTimB_, along with those test '==' defects.  Are you asking me to bring it to their attention?16:51
TimB_dlcusa: what's the alternative? should i do it?16:51
alandipertthinking about upgrading my laptop, anyone have an opinion on x1 carbon vs. ideapad 730s? the x1 carbon is around twice the price, not sure if worth it16:52
TimB_(spoiler: i wouldn't want to. i wouldn't be able to debug it the way you did, so i can barely answer any questions about it)16:52
dlcusaI think most distros assume the packager handles upstreaming bugs, that's all.16:52
TimB_i would feel a lot more comfortable if you'd do it, i am barely involved with just applying your patch and sending you the log16:53
dlcusaNP.16:54
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dlcusaYour involvement wouldm't have been needed if my eyes were better :-(.16:56
TimB_but you did great work. i will need to take a closer look at the patch you sent me, it's neatly commented as well16:57
TimB_i am just swamped with the semester starting and my flat ate a lot of my attention lately16:57
dlcusaNobody here has any problem with your contribution, sir.16:58
TimB_so, thanks for being so thorough even with the comments! much appreciated16:58
dlcusaI like to teach (and make things easier for those who come behind me).16:59
TimB_it shows and i love it :D16:59
TimB_i noticed all the comments when i applied it and had a quick look over it, but i haven't had the time to study it for a bit17:00
dlcusaHopefully a lot more to come in the future,17:00
TimB_on another note, do we have a java expert in here?17:02
TimB_s/expert/<whatever>/17:03
dlcusaNot me.17:03
TimB_damn :D17:03
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TimB_i booked a course from the media informatics institute and they have to hand in "homework" each week in java. i am studying business myself, and i never touched java in my spare time. i need to read up on that topic asap17:05
alandipertTimB_ i know some java things, happy to assist17:06
TimB_alandipert: great! so, basically, what we will have to prepare over the semester (at least it seems like that) is Toolbox.java, with a public class Toolbox which then can run different stuff, first task is to create this framework plus the option to measure the length of an input string17:08
TimB_so that you can run "java Toolbox length wowthisisaverylongstring"17:08
TimB_i do have the length function figured out, but it only works with a fixed definded string for me (i need it to read the argv, though, right?) and if i put it as the main function17:09
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stenurMy IdeaPad is great, but power plug off is not recognized automatically when doing so with lid closed. Does not matter much, event can be simulated.17:25
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stenurI would buy a Tuxedo laptop if i would buy one now. Made in Germany, for Linux.17:27
alandipertstenur thanks. haven't heard of Tuxedo, looks nice17:30
alandipertah they have a nice fanless one, that's a huge plus17:31
stenurFunnily i looked at that 2-core one this afternoon too.  US keyboard, with anything i want, about 1020.- or so. Only heard good things of Tuxedo anyway.17:33
stenurDo not know whether people outside of Europe have waited for yet another manufacturer though. ;)17:33
alandiperti'm always happy to find an alternative to system76, friends have had bad experiences with those machines. but i like the idea of supporting linux-oriented hardware companies17:39
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stenurYes, me too. In Germany/Austria and without support all ends up at ixsoft.de or Tuxedo. With support you can also take a Wortmann Terra (support who selects a model that fits Linux)17:44
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stenursystem76 also looks nice.17:56
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jaegerstill happy with my chinese laptop :D17:59
alandipertjaeger oh, what do you have?18:01
jaegerxiaomi mi notebook pro i5/8GB model18:02
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jaegerIt's been the best linux laptop I've used so far from a standpoint of hardware support18:06
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alandipertinteresting, i have not heard that about those machines. makes them much more compelling18:08
jaegerIt was a good deal, $829 USD at the time I bought it18:08
jaegerIt also has an extra m.2 slot so I added a second SSD18:09
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jaegerThe RAM is not replaceable, just for info18:09
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TimB_there are a lot of people loving xiaomi it seems18:28
TimB_no first hand experience here, my notebook is old (2013 or 2014)18:28
SiFuh_TimB_: oppo is the most popular on the planet18:28
SiFuh_Oh you are talking about notebooks or phones?18:29
TimB_notebooks18:29
SiFuh_Oops ;-)18:30
TimB_:D18:30
SiFuh_Whenever I build a system for someone, I always test if they have international font working by going to  https://myanmar.mmtimes.com/national-news.html18:34
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SiFuh_Right, I am killing that SiFuh guy18:35
SiFuh_The Intel 8260 Wireless card keeps dropping out randomnly on that machine18:39
jaegerbummer, that's normally a very solid chipset18:40
SiFuh_It will become a CRUX laptop after I replace all the fans in it this week sometime.18:41
onoderamy gimp doesnt show any icons, does anyone know how to fix this18:57
TimB_onodera: librsvg probably18:57
onoderaI have it installed18:58
TimB_rebuilding it might solve the issue18:58
onoderaoh running the librsvg post-installed fixed the issue18:58
onoderathanks18:59
TimB_ah, nice18:59
pedja_hpminithat myanmar site looks like Middle Earth news with that weird script :)19:04
SiFuhpedja_hpmini: feels like middle earth when you walk through Shan state in the North East19:21
SiFuhI can't believe that they have mattresses thrown onto concrete floors in random corners and empty rooms at the bus stations and people just lay on them or fall asleep while waiting for their bus.19:27
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jaegerI just put some lithium grease on one of my fans in the xiaomi notebook, the left one as you look at it from the bottom is known to be a bit rattly, it seems21:11
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abenzjaeger: thanks for the input, I figured with the tdp being only 105, the single tower would suffice21:58
abenzI actually had a nh-d14 for my old fx (now sold), and thought it was a bit overkill21:59
abenzthe silent operation is most certainly welcome though21:59
abenzthought I'd avoid potentioal ram clearance issues by going with the u12s22:02
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joacimthe nh-u12s is more than good enough for that processor, probably22:33
joacimthe 92mm coolers might be a bit more noisy tho22:33
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jaegerYeah, the NH-U12S will do the job well22:44
jaegerand quietly22:44
pedja_hpminiis Norsemen any good? I'd like to keep Norse theme going after watching Beforeigners :)22:48
joacimi still havent found anything that is silent tho. the mac mini was nice like that. silent when in normal use, only getting audible under load22:48
pedja_hpminiare aio or custom water loops quieter then air coolers?22:50
pedja_hpminiI guess the pump is noisy there22:50
jaegerGenerally the opposite, if you're comparing with a good air cooler22:50
jaegerbecause aios and custom loops still have fans, plus the pump22:51
pedja_hpminiah22:51
jaegerYou can make them very quiet but it's hard to make them AS quiet as a good air cooler alone22:51
pedja_hpminiso, what's the appeal then? is the temp diff that big between good air cooler and aio?22:58
pedja_hpminiI am curious about gpu water blocks.23:04
pedja_hpminiall of my gpu's (well, both of them) were passively cooled, so I never had the pleasure of dealing with those fans :)23:08
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pedja_hpminibut my nephew had rx480 and now 1070, and those things are *loud* under load23:10
joacimmost current graphics cards will be silent unless under load23:12
joacimmuch harder to achieve with water =)23:12
joacimsince the fans turn off when the gpu isnt doing much. would be nice to see motherboards that do that with case and cpu fans too23:13
joacimthink i can with my system, but i dont think it would be more annoying as i would hear the fans ramp up and down more often23:15
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