IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2019-10-22

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Plazmanice to see crux is still going good00:21
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SiFuh_TimB_: yeah I already did a patch similar before I decided to use the without gtk-doc flag.05:06
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Frankensteinoh goody, my crux vm stopped booting05:38
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: nss: updated to 3.4705:42
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: btrfs-progs: updated to 5.305:42
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dlcusaTimB_, per direction, I have copied you on referal of the lo pdfium bug to the lo devs' mailing list.08:05
dlcusaThat's if anyone else is interested.08:07
frinnstSubnet Usage Used: 59 | Free: ~792�10^26 (100%) | Total: ~792�10^2609:49
frinnstipv6 is awesome09:49
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Frankensteini should probably switch my stuff over to ipv612:43
Frankensteinis it safe to ctrl+z a running sysup for a minute or two?12:43
SiFuhFrankenstein: do it all the time13:39
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TimB_dlcusa: will have a look in a bit, noticed the email when it arrived but haven't had the time to read it14:28
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brainzma1Is there anyway to download one of the pre-compiled package from the installation image without having to download & unpack the iso?14:35
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SiFuhBrainzman: if you have loopback support in the kernel built in or as a module   modprobe loop    you can mount the iso as a loopback device14:37
SiFuhmount -o loop crux-3.5.iso /mnt/14:38
TimB_Brainzman: which package do you need?14:38
BrainzmanI know that, the thing is that rn im at a place with a very slow connection, the download time would be around 18 hours, and I just need one pkg from the install iso14:39
Brainzmanfirefox 69.x14:39
Frankensteini just downloaded the iso this morning. i can throw it on my webserver real quick if you want14:40
BrainzmanOoooh waiiit14:42
BrainzmanI forgot that we have a firefox-bin pkg now14:42
Brainzmanyeah exactly14:42
Brainzmanthanks timB_14:42
Spoofingfolks, anybody know a minimal list of packages from "core" required for CRUX? no devel-packages, no exim, man, etc... only core system for boot15:27
joacimI'd say all of core is required for the normal function of crux, but i guess you can cut it further if you just want it to boot15:31
pedjawithout the toolchain, crux docker image is ~half the size, iirc16:06
pedjaI guess, useful as a minimal system to run something on16:07
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pedjapost-apocalypse OS :)
SiFuh <-- intersting16:56
TimB_dlcusa: so, the thing is, it builds for me w/o the tarball17:05
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john_cephalopoda"Has a text editor modeled after UNIX's ed." <- Which guarantees that 99.9% of humanity got no clue how to use it.17:25
Anselmoed is pretty easy to learn if you spend 5 minutes reading the documentation, and especially if oyu already have used sed or such things .. . .17:26
Anselmosome of us like the wygiwyg model for editing17:28
john_cephalopodaI prefer seeing what I am working with. When I edit files in CLI, I use nano.17:30
AnselmoI mean, I think clearly the advantage of ed in a thing like that is that a viable ed like editor can be very small (in terms of code), and can be acceptable to run on a wide range of display types17:31
Anselmoincluding very small or even tty type things17:31
Anselmowhereas vim/nano/vi are rewriting the entire display every time you move the cursor, which you're obligated to do extremely often to do anything17:33
SiFuhjohn_cephalopoda: I use vi and I find that using it constantly affects how you use other text editors due to habits. Many times i open Libreoffice or something and try to delete a line with dd or save it with :x.17:34
SiFuhTimB_: Installing openshot with flatpak now. Curious about how flatpak works17:36
TimB_vim is love, vim is life.17:39
Anselmobut ed is the standard :317:39
TimB_SiFuh: i do recommend doing flatpak install --user <whatever> btw, to not litter your /var (iirc)17:40
AnselmoI think I tried using flatpak a while ago but it never worked17:40
TimB_flatpaks distfiles do tend to grow a bit in size17:40
Anselmoor maybe it was appimages17:40
SiFuhTimB_: tried --user and cried about something... but since i am not root I just ran the command with oout it17:40
TimB_SiFuh: weird. flatpak does seem to be picky, maybe it's pam?17:41
SiFuhTimB_:  error: No remote refs found similar to ‘org.openshot.OpenShot’17:41
TimB_logs might help17:41
TimB_SiFuh: oh!17:41
TimB_because you need to add the repo with --user as well!17:42
TimB_(i know.. weird!)17:42
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SiFuhTimB_: I will show you the command17:43
SiFuhflatpak --user install flathub org.openshot.OpenShot17:43
TimB_yeah but no, one sec17:44
SiFuhand I tried     flatpak --user install org.openshot.OpenShot17:44
TimB_flatpak remote-add --user --if-not-exists flathub
TimB_like that first, then: flatpak install --user org.openshot.OpenShot17:44
SiFuhok  understood17:45
TimB_maybe i should put that in a readme as well17:45
SiFuhSo far I am not liking it17:45
john_cephalopodaSiFuh: I can just use Ctrl-K to delete a line, which works in nano and geany, the two editors I use.17:45
TimB_i mean, it's not replacing the ports system in any way for me either. desktop portals do work, but not very much to my liking either17:46
SiFuhTimB_: and where it installs stuff cause I ain't found it yet17:47
TimB_if --user, ~/.var/app17:47
Plazmaoh crux supporst flatpak now? wonderful17:47
SiFuh/var/lib/flatpak/ for system17:47
TimB_Plazma: it's in contrib17:49
TimB_SiFuh: exactly17:49
TimB_i moved everything to my ~ after a bit, because it really grew considerably17:49
SiFuhTimB_: ok I found it   it is installing to /var/lib/17:49
SiFuhI will uninstall it all and do that --user thing17:50
SiFuhor copy it over to ~/17:50
TimB_i did remove it, then install it again. didn't want to fiddle with it if it decides to be fed up about something17:51
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SiFuhTimB_: yeah i actually removed all the repos uninstalled the port, searched for any flatpak remaining, deleted that and reinstalled the port18:04
dlcusaTimB_, I gather your platform's build does not try to enable pdfium.  We've already learned your build enables --enable-kde5 and --enable-gtk3-kde5 and mine doesn't.  Is that the problem?18:04
TimB_dlcusa: that's not a problem, i do have okular installed which provides the directories the Pkgfile probes for18:05
dlcusaThen I am missing depends?18:06
TimB_you are not18:06
TimB_it's not a hard dependency, but a soft one. gtk is the hard dependency18:07
TimB_it needs something unless you try headless libreoffice :) gtk is in opt, kde isn't18:07
dlcusaSo the long-term solution is my own port that disable pdfium?18:08
dlcusaOr included the missing tarball?18:08
TimB_dlcusa: not at all, but i assume it's yet another bug in the libreoffice configure script18:08
dlcusaSo far, they are not inclined to see it that way--you are receiving the emails?18:09
TimB_i do18:09
TimB_i did read them earlier as well by now, but what can i say? I have said this before: set up a clean crux 3.5 container, do prt-get depinst libreoffice with just core ports installed and it will just work for me18:10
dlcusaDoes your build retrieve the pdfium tarball inri src/tarballs--mine does not.18:10
TimB_and i suppose it will work for you as well18:10
TimB_dlcusa: no, it doesn't download a thing18:10
TimB_the first versions that i had in contrib still pulled tarballs, as i was only pulling the source for lo itself, now it does provide some more distfiles which do suffice to build it in an unaltered crux environment18:11
TimB_no shell changed, no packages installed. i do keep the core ports updated in my container though18:12
TimB_then prt-get depinst -fr libreoffice, after i am done, i do pkg-clean -r (it's in romsters repository, great tool!)18:12
TimB_pkg-clean will delete everything except for core packages18:14
dlcusaIt shouldn't with --disable-fetch-external, correct, so if I try to make this need for pdfium happy, I need to add the tarball to my port and include it in the source list?18:15
TimB_seemed to me that this what Miklos Vajna suggested, i would expect that to work, too18:16
TimB_would be interesting to see if it would actually build pdfium for you18:17
dlcusaFine, it's a solution and I can move on to other things that need doing.18:17
TimB_dlcusa: i can look into if it's worth to create a single port for pdfium18:18
TimB_maybe this could also be a solution for the problem?18:18
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dlcusaThen it would have to be added to Depends on, right?18:18
TimB_dlcusa: maybe, maybe not, i did try to keep the depends on line as slim as possible, mind all the if statements to probe for additional packages to enable or disable them explicitly18:19
TimB_listen, i will try to throw a pkgfile for pdfium together18:20
TimB_and then we will see if that solves your problem18:20
TimB_does that sound like a plan to you? I can also write to the mailing list (w/o subscribing) stating that it does work on a vanilla crux environment.. i mean, man, it ignores the fetch-external-tarballs for you - how can it be the fault of the pkgfile really?18:21
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SiFuhUK lawmakers have given the green light to PM Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal <- The children have come into agreeance18:24
SiFuhTimB_: ~/.local/share/flatpak/18:29
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dlcusaIt's not ignoring disable-external-tarballs, it's trying to install the pdfium tarball; i.e., the disable is a promise to provide needed tarballs manually.18:29
TimB_dlcusa: and for me, it doesn't ask for it...18:31
dlcusaSo I expect your build doesn't include pdfium.18:32
TimB_i expect the same18:32
TimB_dlcusa: how do i test that again? ;)18:32
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TimB_it doesn't show up in the footprint, it's a pdf rendering engine, it will still load a pdf file with writer i assume, or even draw18:33
TimB_oh, it doesn't, guess that's pdfium missing :)18:34
TimB_i would expect draw or even writer to be able to open a pdf file.. so maybe porting pdfium might be worth the work. what do you think about that type of solution. could still be a soft dependency, but it would be available in contrib. still - i consider that a bug on the LO side..18:38
dlcusaI gather the CRUX LO base isn't asking for pdfium support.18:40
dlcusaBy base, I mean those who install the port or the bin port.18:41
TimB_dlcusa: i think the bin ports integrates all the stuff18:42
TimB_not sure though, never inspected it too much, it just drove me up the wall that revdep reported it over and over again18:43
TimB_and CRUX is a source based distro after all ;) where is the fun with bin ports where you can build them from source? :P18:44
dlcusaI think there are still false positives with revdep.18:44
TimB_didn't notice much off with it18:44
pedjaSiFuh, have you played with ?18:45
dlcusapedja, I did years ago.18:46
pedjaoh, cool. what did you run on it?18:46
dlcusaMy first hands-on computer was a S/360 model 22.18:46
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dlcusaNot much, I had it standing by if I needed it to troubleshoot something relating to the DOS/VSE boxes I was sysprogging for my client at the time.18:48
dlcusaOS licenses are the huge gotcha with Hercules.18:50
pedjait can run z/Linux, right?18:52
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pedjabut that's just Linux on a exotic platform :)18:53
pedjait would be fun to try, thou18:53
SiFuhTimB_: flatpak installed openshot. Openshot ran fine, I thne when to settings and crashed. I laughed so hard18:54
dlcusaThe thought of running VM/370 second-level using Hercules in a KVM virtual machine still amazes me.18:54
TimB_SiFuh: haha, must be the flatpak? :D it never really crashed for me, even steam worked fine some time ago when i tried18:55
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dlcusaI'm not certain Hercules supports Z-architecture infrastructure needs of z/Linux distros, including OS licenses, unless you're running on the bare (emulated) hardware.18:59
TimB_dlcusa: so, how shall we proceed with the lo port? what works best for you?19:00
dlcusaWhy not add the pdfium tarball to the contrib port?19:01
TimB_because not everybody might need it - while i do enjoy a stable (for the most part) connection to the internet with some proper downspeed and such, others might be more scarse with bandwith and have much less bandwith to work with19:02
dlcusaI guess that's not a CRUX solution.19:02
TimB_i prefer a single port people can choose to install if they want (or are forced to by the buggy configure script)19:02
dlcusaThen a separate optional pdfium port is probably the Right Stuff.19:03
TimB_personally, i will install it on my production machines, i expect it to support pdfs - i actually switched to latex/R and do all the work with that. for me, LO is to be compatible where needed19:05
TimB_but i will not have it around in the container when i upgrade the port in the future19:06
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TimB_dlcusa: i have noticed this in my buildlog22:16
TimB_seems to me that the test isn't even working over here with zsh?22:17
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TimB_ lines 10759ff22:32
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TimB_dlcusa: for me, 'man 1 test' tells me that -a is discouraged to be used, and says both EXPRESSION1 and EXPRESSION2 are true22:37
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dlcusaTimB_, that's the test == defects that I patched in
TimB_so for me, it doesn't seem to complain, preparing to see the output from my container22:45
TimB_ same in a container22:48
dlcusaIf you apply, configure will probably go down the correct path, a different path from what it had been going down..22:48
dlcusaIt complains about those bad test ops.22:49
TimB_but continues... still, nothing else about pdfium in there..22:50
TimB_because of the failed test i assume22:50
dlcusaThat's my expectation--it's not going down that path the developers have in mind for that those tests.22:51
dlcusaWell, it may not be.22:51
TimB_trying the patch now22:52
TimB_yep, now it depends on poppler which i excluded from the depends on list because finddeps didn't pick it up22:53
TimB_ah, wrong log, sorry, anyways, tells me to get poppler22:56
TimB_and now it does want pdfium, alright22:58
dlcusaI was going to say that doesn't look patched.22:58
TimB_well, so pdfium is considered to be there by default, i already told you that i would expect that feature of libreoffice, i will try the port it approach, maybe this get's picked up as well? if not - bummer - then i'll include it in the source line, ok?23:00
dlcusaThat sounds good to me.23:00
TimB_i have to say, not depending on poppler also seems attractive ;)23:01
dlcusaMy take is it seems to be a really useful piece of software from a lot of other pacakages points of view, so why not use it?23:03
TimB_every other update of it will have some api changed and you need to rebuild stuff23:03
TimB_hurts with texlive, i suspect it to hurt with lo as well23:04
dlcusaIs its value add insignificant?23:04
TimB_speaking of texlive, teK_: any thoughts?23:04
TimB_dlcusa: the file makes me feel like it's either poppler, or pdfium, but not both?23:05
TimB_if so, they do want to have that functionality provided at all times23:05
TimB_in that way: the Pkgfile is flawed, then.23:05
dlcusaI think not, since I have poppler and it also wants pdfium.23:05
TimB_if test "$ENABLE_PDFIMPORT" == "TRUE" -a "$ENABLE_POPPLER" != "TRUE" -a "$ENABLE_PDFIUM" != "TRUE"; then AC_MSG_ERROR([Cannot import PDF without either Pdfium or Poppler; please enable either of them.])23:05
TimB_pdf importing seems to be enabled by default23:07
dlcusaI believe so.23:07
TimB_pdfium itself doesn't seem to depend on poppler, looking at if test "$ENABLE_PDFIMPORT" == "TRUE" -a "$ENABLE_POPPLER" != "TRUE" -a "$ENABLE_PDFIUM" != "TRUE"; then AC_MSG_ERROR([Cannot import PDF without either Pdfium or Poppler; please enable either of them.])23:08
TimB_damn, wrong buffer y.y it's late, i'm tired23:08
dlcusaIt's probably worth asking in the LO dev thread I started.23:09
TimB_yeah i did compose an answer to the forwarded messages you sent me, then drafted it and had a closer look..23:09
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TimB_but why won't they acknowledge the problem? I mean, their error lead us to finding out that the Pkgfile is indeed flawed. I wouldn't disable pdfimport if it's on by default.. i just didn't notice because it doesn't complain in a noticeable manner23:11
TimB_like it does now, which also still seems flawed, because it does want poppler but pdfium doesn't need poppler, it's its own engine23:11
dlcusaI didn't send them, you're being CCed.23:13
dlcusaWell, I didn't forward them is what I meant.23:14
TimB_understood, it's no problem either way, i got them is what counts :)23:15
TimB_i do want to fix that if there is anything to fix from my side, i just want to understand what the heck is going wrong and what's the best way to do it23:15
TimB_poppler is it's own kind of hell, i have it around, sure, do i want to include it? no.23:16
TimB_not being the wracking ball that poppler is. the build process for pdfium on it's own though looks kind of sketchy though, might be worth looking for how the build script does it if you provide the tarball with it23:16
TimB_i need some more time for it, tomorrow in the morning i'll have a look into it23:16
TimB_right, i remember why i put pdfium aside, it does require clang :)23:19
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TimB_ considering that gn needs clang.. this went quick for all the steps required23:41
dlcusaI think LO must want two or more different things that poppler and pdfium do not both provide, leading to requiring both despite the overlap of capabilities they have.23:41
TimB_gn does want to be build from a git checkout... my first attempt of erasing that failed.. i wonder if lo does build it without gn someway?23:42
TimB_considering that lo doesn't need clang/gn, i wonder how they build it23:44
TimB_and if providing it as a system lib actually works or not23:44
dlcusaThat another worthy question, I think.23:44
TimB_so building pdfium can work, maybe with the bin gn to not pull in clang for everybody? though building it from a git checkout works, and building pdfium doesn't seem to be a further problem23:49
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TimB_close to 2am here, need to get up at 7am - i'm out, i will try that tomorrow and see if it's any good. laters23:50
dlcusaThanks for your support!23:51
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