IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2019-10-25

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dlcusaTimB_, I have clang for firefox, so NP there (although I've been testing the PaleMoon binary for a while and am defnitely liking the code they're providing--still unsure what to make of their approach to FOSS, though).04:33
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dlcusaTimB_, I went through all of to be sure, and it does not attempt to check if pdfium is installed--pdfium is only supported via external tarball.06:10
dlcusaAnother fine question for the LO devs, I think:  is pre-installation support in the works?06:12
dlcusaFrom 5 years back (  It looks like nobody thinks packaging pdfium is worth the pain.06:27
TimB_dlcusa: i use palemoon as well :)06:44
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TimB_about gn/pdfium, sounds painful07:00
TimB_poppler can be picked up as an external lib, why not pdfium?07:01
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: gtkmm3: 3.24.1 -> 3.24.207:10
dlcusaOkay, TimB_, so you'll add the pdfium tarball to the source, then?07:11
TimB_dlcusa: yeah, i might do that07:11
dlcusaCool!  I am really impressed with the differences you're making for this distro--thanks again!07:13
TimB_no problem, you are welcome!07:15
TimB_i am glad you like it07:15
TimB_dlcusa: so if you use palemoon, i might share my port with it. j_v maintained one, but he dropped it due to the poor attitude of the devs07:15
TimB_but i still do like this browser07:16
TimB_has been very realiable for me for the past 3-4 years maybe07:16
TimB_i do have a port that i can not share, but i was thinking about a port i could put into contrib as a lighter alternative07:16
dlcusaI'll give them the benefit of the doubt regarding the binary requirement--they do have to minimize support effort given their resources.07:17
TimB_yeah, true that07:17
TimB_i still build it against system libs for the most part, but i have a mockup of the official build instructions around already07:17
dlcusaHowver, if CRUX can take care of its own, they might warm to a CRUX packaging of the browser.07:18
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TimB_ugh, no. i don't believe they would07:18
TimB_they want exactly what they instruct you to do else they won't like it having the name palemoon07:18
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TimB_they provide a different branding for that -> new moon07:19
TimB_with new moon, as far as i understand it, you are able to build it however the way suits you best07:19
TimB_but i don't want to use new moon :>07:19
dlcusaI see no problem with a different badge.07:20
TimB_i do use palemoon on windows (if i have to use windows) - so i want to stick to the name07:20
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elderKHey guys, I was wondering if anyone else is getting package conflicts with mesa and glvnd?07:22
TimB_elderK: yes, because glvnd now provides stuff that was previously offered my mesa07:22
elderKShould I remove mesa, rebuild?07:23
TimB_i am not sure if removing is needed07:23
dlcusaIceweasel worked well enough for Debian and everybody understood what was going on.07:24
TimB_yeah but we are not debian07:24
dlcusaUnderstood, I'm just saying the rebadging is a workable approach.07:25
TimB_well, yes, but it's still 'unsupported'07:25
TimB_i don't feel confident supporting it officially, it's sometimes a pain to upgrade, right now i use the git checkout because the latest release tag wouldn't build for me07:26
TimB_doesn't happen often, but it does happen, and i don't want to trouble myself with that kind of pressure07:26
dlcusaI am sure the Firefox devs came to appreciate Debian's support of Iceweasel and the Firefox improvements that originated therein.07:26
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TimB_LO barely needs more attention than bumping the version numbers for the most part, i can't say the same for PM, they don't support system libs at all and shut one poor openbsd dev down threatening a lawsuit when he tried making a port of PM for oBSD07:27
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dlcusaPerhaps someone here will develop that itch so you won't have to.07:27
TimB_i don't expect anybody to do that :)
elderKTimB_: How do I deal with the conflcit?07:36
dlcusaCopyrights have to be defended or the courts won't uphold the rights.  This is the legal environment work within.07:40
dlcusas/work/we must work/07:41
TimB_elderK: you can remove mesa, rebuild glvnd and then reinstall mesa, i guess, force overwriting files that already exists works as well though07:42
TimB_dlcusa: yeah, sure :) that's why it lives in my private overlay and doesn't see the day of light07:43
TimB_erm, light of the day :D07:43
TimB_another coffee is in the works haha07:43
dlcusaNo problem with that approach.  And I can live with their binary statically linked with the libraries they support.07:44
dlcusaI need to grab some sleep soon before I must keep a medical appointment.  So if I don't respond, you'll know why.07:45
TimB_no worries, i should work for uni as well :)07:46
TimB_are you interested in gn/pdfium ports to see if you can make LO pick it up?07:46
dlcusaSure, though I may never get around to it, given the rate at which updates break these days.  Sigh.07:47
TimB_ gn Pkgfile + foo.patch + pdfium Pkgfile + libpdfium.pc07:49
TimB_pdfium is 'inspired' by the AUR package arch has, gn works around expecting a git checkout07:50
TimB_this builds on my host, haven't tested it in a container. and i don't want to invest more time if LO doesn't support it that way anyway07:54
dlcusaGot 'em, thanks.07:54
TimB_trying LO with provided tarball right now, it builds all the stuff as bundled libs as well (as seen in the pdfium Pkgfile)07:54
TimB_ACTION sighs 07:54
SiFuhTimB_: I had never even heard of Pale Moon until I read that issue 86 you sent07:55
dlcusaThat issue made quite the splash.07:55
TimB_ the dep chain for PM07:55
TimB_it's simple, it works, i like it for that07:56
TimB_i dislike everything about how that issue went down07:56
dlcusaToo many lawyers are challenged at public relations.07:57
SiFuhdlcusa: agree08:00
SiFuh  :-)08:01
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: icu: fix source08:01
TimB_i do like qutebrowser08:01
TimB_have been testing it here and there sometimes in between, and it performs well08:02
TimB_ btw, further reading on the "pale moon side of what went down" :D08:05
TimB_anyways, that _always_ keeps me from working on my palemoon-off port08:05
SiFuhseamonkey has binary08:07
SiFuhand I always use seamonkey for browsing.. and firefox for my main tabs08:07
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TimB_dlcusa: NEW       -rwxr-xr-x      root/root       usr/lib/libreoffice/program/libpdfiumlo.so08:15
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TimB_aaaand i can open pdfs with LO again. that works08:16
TimB_bummer that it won't accept the system library, though08:17
SiFuh  similar to firefox-bin08:22
dlcusaI might look into teaching how to use the system lib, but not right away, that's certain.08:30
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TimB_that would be neat!08:37
TimB_i will include pdfium w/ the next update08:37
elderKThanks TimB_ :) That solved the problem :)08:43
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TimB_elderK: np!09:28
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elderKThank you, jue.09:52
elderKAnother question: Is anyone having any issues with dhcpcd not terminating?09:53
elderKnet stop, or wlan stop , they fail to terminate dhcpcd.09:53
elderKI usually have to kill it with kill -9.09:53
elderKOr reboot.09:53
elderKNo useful logs are present, as I originally thought it must have been the result of iwlwifi crapping its pants.09:53
elderKAlso, weird recursive font issues with fc-cache.09:53
TimB_elderK: i have that, and ubuntu patches solved it for me09:54
TimB_haven't had the time to pin down which patch does the trick09:54
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elderKTimB_: wrt dhcpcd or fc-cache?09:54
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: xorg-xorgproto-32: 2019.1 -> 2019.209:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: xorg-libxvmc-32: 1.0.11 -> 1.0.1209:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: xorg-libx11-32: 1.6.8 -> 1.6.909:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: python-32: 2.7.16 -> 2.7.1709:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: p11-kit-32: 0.23.15 -> 0.23.1809:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: nss-32: 3.46.1 -> 3.4709:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: nspr-32: 4.22 -> 4.2309:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libtasn1-32: 4.13 -> 4.1409:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libinput-32: 1.14.1 -> 1.14.209:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: libdrm-32: 2.4.99 -> 2.4.10009:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: gnutls-32: 3.6.9 -> 3.6.1009:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: glib-32: 2.62.0 -> 2.62.209:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: fribidi-32: 1.0.5 -> 1.0.709:56
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: icu-32: fix source09:56
TimB_+v when?09:56
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Romsternever :P09:58
TimB_Romster: you did build contrib/libreoffice, right? did you run into any problems lately?09:59
Romsterj_v you bumped j_v/openjdk8-headless but not contrib/openjdk809:59
frinnstomg lbreakoutHD is a thing09:59
Romsteri haven't tested since the first compile of it TimB_09:59
TimB_ah, ok09:59
Romsteri am so behind, all the crap i've had to deal with lately10:00
frinnstsame here10:00
TimB_long story short, tests are crap at some points, dlcusa has been diving into that and reporting it upstream since the build fails at configure stage for him10:00
TimB_it might pull another tarball w/ the next update, as of right now it won't pick up system poppler and it's expecting either poppler or pdfium to work with pdf, and i want to avoid poppler at all costs :)10:01
Romsterpoppler breaks ABI on every god damn update10:02
TimB_yeah, exactly.10:02
TimB_sadly, it can pick up poppler as a system dep, but not pdfium10:02
TimB_i would have liked to make it optional but it wants to enable pdf support by default, one way or the other10:03
Romsterhack ?10:03
TimB_dlcusa wanted to have a look into that, but is limited in time as well10:04
Romstermaybe one of the m4 macros are wrong and it needs a fix and autoreconf10:04
TimB_it seems like upstream doesn't intend to use a system provided lib, looking at the next answer by Miklos Vajna10:07
RomsterExcuse me, we are a supplier of synchronous clocks made in China10:11
Romsterhow did that get on the ML10:11
TimB_what, where?10:12
Romsternext message by thread10:14
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frinnstawesome. a customer we migrated a few months ago just sent in a ticket that they cannot connect to the fileserver with a fucking NT4 machine11:53
frinnstRomster: seems dead. Domain on hold12:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: scite: update to 4.2.112:14
cruxbot[core.git/3.5]: man-db: update to 2.9.012:15
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SiFuhWhere is the actual list of installed packages kept?12:36
SiFuhHah, I knew it was in var somewhere12:37
SiFuhJust came accross an anomaly. Yesterday I found xmlto on my system but it didn't exist with the prt-get listinst  or even a single file prt-get fsearch <name of xmlto file>12:39
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SiFuhI have been going through the entire system file by file comparing  prt-get fsearch * with find / * results (Some heavy filtering involved of course) and i have found about 8 other packages that don't exist but were installed12:41
pedja3fa? :)12:54
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: wine: 4.17 -> 4.1813:25
SiFuhwow didn't know wine still existed13:37
SiFuhRomster: thanks for that. All finished13:53
][_R_][WINE will stop existing when 128bit CPUs come out and they don't have support for 32bit programs14:11
frinnstdoes wine support 64bit stuff?14:11
pedjaafaik, it does, I ran some 64bit applications with it14:12
jaegerYes, and our wine and wine-staging ports build both 32- and 64-bit support14:13
Romster128bit PE binaries will exist then and wine will also run those :D14:13
pedjaor Windows 11 will be Linux-based, so no need for it anymore :)14:14
Romsteryou're dreaming right14:16
pedjasome analysts speculate that's the next logical step for MS14:17
pedjaI think it's unlikely, but it's an interesting thought14:18
Spoofingsup folks, today i started pet-project: CRUX in RAM (squashfs), here is iso w/ minimal core (64mb):
Spoofingi have many old PCs, i'm configure DHCP/TFTP on my home server and I will boot this minimal CRUX over ethernet (diskless). thats why i'm started this project.14:30
Spoofingnow, I need idea, how to get configuration-per-host by MAC-address. download from local FTP like ftp://.../52:54:00:12:34:56/init.rc or something...14:32
frinnstwhat do you run in them?14:33
frinnsti assume you are not doing any compiling :)14:33
Spoofingno, just services like DNS, DHCP, etc. and everything must be boot over ethernet. its just awesome. and very secure. if I got hacked, i just push Reset button, and boot in to clean CRUX.. yeees14:35
jaegerIf you're using syslinux for the PXE boot you can create different configs per MAC or you could modify the startup to detect the MAC and do something different14:35
Spoofingcurrently i'm modify /etc/rc.local in /initrd/init init script, then switch_root to CRUX with this modified /etc/rc.local, yep.14:37
jaegerhandy setup... I did something similar in the past to boot a few crux systems via PXE and NFS but never tried to make it that minimal or boot into RAM only14:42
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: librsvg: 2.46.2 -> 2.46.315:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: libxkbcommon: 0.8.4 -> 0.9.115:06
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.5]: mpv: 0.29.1 -> 0.30.015:11
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jueRomster: wrt poppler, it's the fault of LO and others that they use the internal-only C API and not the official C++, glib or qt interfaces. It took some time but even cups-filters has learned to do it right now and I'd expect that the big team of LO is able to do so as well.15:34
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TimB_jue: maybe it won't break, who knows15:41
TimB_i didn't try it yet, it's just my default assuption to avoid poppler where i can ;)15:41
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juethe official APIs are stable since ages, never saw a breakage15:46
TimB_if LO usese the stable c++ api, i wouldn't disagree to use it15:47
jueexactly, that's what they should use15:49
jue][_R_][: yes15:49
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UNIXn3rdcrux is a nice OS18:17
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UNIXn3rdI like how its all compile stuff and being very BSD like18:21
SiFuhthe prt utils are awesome18:24
UNIXn3rdI messed with FreeBSD using the ports system previously18:24
SiFuhIt reminds me a bit like the distro Sorcerer18:25
][_R_][Lunar's a descendant of that, Gentoo likewise is along the same lines18:27
UNIXn3rdI see both of those on Wikipedia Sourcer Linux I never heard of before18:29
SiFuhAn ancient distro and doesn't exist anymore18:29
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