IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2019-12-28

joacim       pedja i like this one00:02
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SiFuhHypersonic weapons fly far faster than the speed of sound. Avangard is capable of reaching Mach 27 without losing control or disintegrating under heat and pressure.03:42
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SiFuhOh the ignominy of relegation.05:28
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SiFuhyeah right11:17
joacimdont get to see the front of the phone. could just be two screens in a wallet case from what they show in that video11:28
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joacimpatent holders deserves a beating11:54
joacimI'm sure apple will throw him some pocket change, and he'll be happy with that, but he could do that to small businesses too11:54
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SiFuhjoacim, i kind of gree with you on the beating12:18
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pedjaspeaking of patents, this is an interesting one
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: clang: 9.0.0 -> 9.0.114:08
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: llvm: 9.0.0 -> 9.0.114:08
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: rust: 1.39.0 -> 1.40.014:08
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: rust-bin: 1.39.0 -> 1.40.014:08
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.5]: llvm-32: 9.0.0 -> 9.0.114:09
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pedjaSiFuh, yeah, I am looking at
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: iputils: fix build with libcap 2.2917:53
cruxbot[core.git/3.5]: libcap: update to 2.2917:54
cruxbot[opt.git/3.5]: msmtp: update to 1.8.717:56
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stenurTalking about rockets, me myself & i go with Joseph Beuys "Sonne statt Regen" (
stenurI'd wish they would be more stingy with atoms.18:57
stenur"Living without taking up of arms, there as to be rust on rockets"18:59
stenurThat was something in 1982.18:59
stenurs/Regen/Reagan/.  Of course.18:59
stenurDead. ;)19:21
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stenurActually one fun fact. One of his art pieces was a painted etc. bathtub, and in the museum here in Darmstadt where i live, a cleaning lady .. cleaned it :-))19:22
stenurIt was a Germany-wide (at least) laugher.19:23
stenurModern art is difficult to understand.  (I do not, for example.)19:23
stenurhmm.  Actually my childhood memory fooled me, according to Wikipedia. Hmmm.  But i still see him arm in arm with that lady, so who knows...19:25
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stenurTalking about modern art, actually i (at the moment: have to) listen to Harold Budd's "As long as i can hold my breath (by night)" for some time now.19:29
joacimany ideas on where date picks up on the time format? I want a 24 hour clock everywhere19:29
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][_R_][Do you have a date alias?19:30
stenurset TZ=Europe/Vienna19:31
stenurAnd unset all your LC stuff but LC_ALL.  Or LANG, if you want to overwrite anything LC_'ish.19:32
joacimthat didnt change anything19:33
stenurBut since all your LC_ thingies are set to the same value, you can very well just save that effort and simply use LANG (or LC_ALL).19:33
joacimI only set LANG myself19:34
joacimthe rest is picked up from LANG19:34
][_R_][I have LC_ALL and LC_COLLATE set (en_US.UTF-8 and C respectively)19:34
stenurReally???  Oh.  Indeed, Linux locale(1) does that.19:35
joacimhabit i picked up a long time ago19:35
joacimi used to set LC_ALL, but ran into some issues with os x and debian19:35
stenurReally? was about date.  POSIX says LC_TIME should be used, and i wonder why en_US.UTF-8 uses 24 hour clock?19:36
stenurLC_TIME             Determine the format and contents of date and time strings written by date.19:37
joacimhow about the output from ls?19:37
joacimtimestamps on my files are all 24 hour19:37
stenurSeems like a bug to me, then.  I would think en_US should use 12 hour clocks, no?19:38
joacimmight be a difference with how opensuse generates the locales. compared to every other distro in my possession (and how i do it on crux)19:38
joacimthe commands that generate the locales on my crux systems. which gives me a 24 hour time output from date =)19:39
joacimi know what to poke now. thanks19:41
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joacimalso it triggers me that the language of days and months changes when i just want a norwegian formating standard :)19:42
joacimtime and date format, and language is not the same in my head19:42
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joacimbut thats not as bad as having to redo a bunch of excel formulas because with different locales, you have to use , instead of ; :)19:43
stenurLuckily no graphical spreadsheet in over twenty years here. Only DB fields, if.19:46
joacimi have to convert between comma and semicolon separated csv files a lot19:47
][_R_][Gotta love it when Excel corrupts data because it thinks something should be a date when it isn't19:47
joacimoh seen that too19:48
][_R_][There was what, 40 years or something of SCIENTIFIC DATA corrupted because of that?19:48
joacimcan take years before you notice such things too19:48
][_R_][Yeah that's why there was so mcuh19:49
joacimit is completely random too, if excel thinks a field should be date or not19:50
joacimseen it format a date column in 3 very different ways. and they were all wrong19:50
joacimthe exported csv file just had iso formated dates in that column. if excel just treated that like regular text instead, it would've been fine19:51
][_R_][Yeah, and there's no way to set a column to be a certain type19:53
][_R_][There's a way to set all cells in a column to be a certain type19:53
][_R_][But not the column itself19:53
SiFuh joacim: i set my to UK to get 24 hour time19:54
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joacimyou can when inserting data into an existing excel shit19:55
joacimyou can define what kind of separation the csv file uses, and define what kind of data is in each column19:56
joacimSiFuh: i set it to en_IE.utf819:56
SiFuhoh no  I am using US on CRUX but all other systems i am using UK19:57
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SiFuhLANG=en_US.UTF-8     LC_ALL=     LC_COLLATE=C19:58
SiFuhthis is what I have in CRUX and got 24 hour19:58
SiFuhand I have locale -a    listing every locale ever known to man ;-)20:00
joacimon my crux system, that's just 8 locales20:01
joacimC, POSIX, + the en_US and nb_NO ones that I like to use =)20:01
SiFuhwell i did the mass locale since I spend majority of my time in foreign countries20:03
SiFuhglibc 2.29 fixed a bug, en_US.UTF-8 started showing in 12-hour format, as was intended. If wanting to use 24-hour format, use LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8.
joacimmust be why20:05
SiFuhlocale date_fmt20:05
joacimmost of my systems are more LTS20:05
SiFuhshows %a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y20:05
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SiFuhjoacim: LC_TIME might be an option20:09
joacimalready set that20:09
joacimand it works20:09
SiFuhLC_TIME=zh_CN.UTF-8  ;-)20:09
joacimas shown above =)20:09
SiFuhoops didn't read20:09
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SiFuhjoacim:      /etc/locale.gen20:15
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SiFuhjoacim: this is the arch script that they use to generate locales from /etc/locale.gen20:21
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pedjajoacim, that's leap or tw?21:02
pedjaI get 24h time on leap with en_US.utf8, fwiw21:04
joacimguessing it has the bugfix21:04
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pedjahm, interesting. I pulled the latest tw image, and tried "LC_DATE="en_US.utf8" date"21:10
pedjathe output is in 24h format21:10
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joacimwhat does LC_TIME say?21:11
pedjathe default is 'POSIX'21:12
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pedjayup, when I 'export LC_TIME=en_US.utf8', date output is 12h thingie21:14
pedjathe same 'LC_TIME=en_US.utf8 date' (sorry about the previous fsckup)21:15
pedjaweird difference between leap and tw behaviour21:24
pedjaperhaps tw is the correct one :)21:37
joacimtw represents the new behavior i think. so LTS distros, and people with older software will have to adapt =)21:42
pedjathe infamous patch :)21:57
pedjasilly 'Mericans22:02
joacimi often forget the difference between AM and PM. never have to use it in my day to day life22:07
pedjanow, do I fix this now, or rely on the 'broken' behavior until leap 15.2 fixes it, and then change :)? hm22:10
pedjaain't using sr_RS for it, 'суб, 28. дец 2019.' is just weird to my eyes22:12
pedjaheh, slackware apparently reverted that patch in their glibc22:25
joacimcould try using the C or POSIX for LC_TIME22:34
joacimor switch to en_IE or en_UK22:34
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