IRC Logs for #io Monday, 2013-12-16

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stevedekorteis mio an io implementation?02:17
stevedekortefound it - cool http://mio-lang.readthedocs.org/en/latest/02:18
stevedekortelooks nice02:19
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prologicstevedekorte:  mio is Io-ish -- however that being said it would be trivial to make it Io compliant (in the end)04:43
prologicit's still (obviously) very experimental, in desng/prototype, etc, etc :)04:43
prologicit shares much with Io and mostly has the same grammar so far04:44
prologicwith lots of Pythonic influence littered all over it's std. lib :)04:44
stevedekorteprologic: does it implement Io semantics wrt everything being a message?05:24
prologicyes yes it does05:30
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prologicstevedekorte: Do you think we could use something like the codebase of mio (with modifications) and do some effort towards getting it all RPython compliant and compilable?23:24
stevedekorteprologic: for a new implementation on the server/desktop, sure23:27
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stevedekortethe question is where is there a market for Io? Where are people most likely to use it in practice?23:28
locksnowadays that's hard to say23:28
stevedekorteOn the server side, people tend to focus either on speed or framework compatibility - I'm not sure how Io can compete there23:29
lockswith node in rasperrypis and whatnot23:29
prologicyeah stevedekorte  I couldn't agree more23:35
prologicI think in order to compete in the language space these days23:35
prologicyou need to interoperate well with other languages23:35
prologicnot just low-level languages like C23:35
prologicbut high level languages like JavaScript, Python, Ruby, etc23:36
prologicin terms of performance, I think "fast enough" is the best you can hope for without going to too much effort optimizing the VM23:36
prologicwith RPython you'd take advantage of their tracing JIT there23:36
prologicquestion is I don't know how well it will perform with a language like Io/mio23:36
prologicin theory it should perform "fast enough"23:37
stevedekortelots of compatibility comes at a high cost of labor investment, which sounds like too much work for a small project 23:37
prologicbecause it's not JITing functions/methods per say23:37
prologicbut the entire VM/interpreter23:37
stevedekorteI ran into this with Io, it seems not so bad to write a lib wrapper etc, until you have to support and maintain it...23:37
prologicand tracing hotspots and simplifying them into smaller chunks of code and compiling them to machine code23:37
prologicyeah that's probably true re lang compat23:38
prologicsupporting one high level lang is probably not os bad23:38
prologicsupporting more than one is probably harder and more work over time23:38
prologicanyway just a thought23:39
stevedekorteyeah23:39
prologicregardless of any interest or lack thereof, I will continue with moo's design and implementation :)23:39
prologicand then maybe try to make an Io compatible fork just for fun23:39
prologicwhich I could probably do in the runtime/lang itself23:40
prologicby modifying the bootstrapping code of the std. lib23:40
stevedekortelanguages seem to need either a backer with billions of $ or a killer app to survive23:40
prologicas in the nature of a homiicons language23:40
prologic*nods*23:40
prologicI don't have the fomrer23:40
prologicbut I wonder if one could write a killer app :)23:40
prologichaha23:40
prologicstevedekorte: you've obviously seen the pypy Io clone right?23:44
prologicit's just such a shame it's in a non-working state23:44
prologicnor is it very useful as it has no std. lib at all really or hook into C libraries, etc23:44
stevedekorteI remember hearing about it23:44
prologicI considered trying to resurrect it, but I don't know enough about how RPython fits together yet (still wrapping my head around it)23:45
prologicI think I saw a comment from you about it :)23:45
stevedekorteonly the JS implementation interests me wrt what I'd work on myself23:45
stevedekorteI should ad mio to the implementation links on the website23:47
prologicheh feel free23:47
prologicI'd appreciate it if you did :)23:47
prologicI dod intend for it to by Io-compliant-ish23:47
prologicit largely is except for a few minor things like getSlot -> get, setSlot -> set, etc. and no := or ::= just =23:48
prologicbut these are things that could be adapted in the bootstrap IHMO23:49
prologicI do like the js imll. on pypy's repos too btw23:56
prologicI like that it's feature complete (so it seems)23:56
prologicand it's fast!23:56

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