IRC Logs for #io Sunday, 2014-01-12

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pdurbinjer: so you're migrating more towards static typing? enforcement by the compiler? getting away from dynamic typing in general?00:28
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jerpdurbin, pretty much02:55
jerif it can reasonably be proven by the compiler, great02:55
jerless assertions i've gotta write02:55
jerless silly unit tests 02:55
jer(i.e., the unit tests that ensure that you've got the write object)02:56
prologicsorry jer03:21
prologichow am I mising the two?03:21
prologicI'm pretty sure I know the difference :)03:21
prologicstatic types, ounce bound at compile time cannot be changed :)03:21
prologicstrong typing, you cannot mix types03:21
prologice.g: PHP :)03:21
prologicbut as the link validily points out03:22
prologicPython is strongly typed03:22
prologicbut not strctly like Haskell03:22
zephyrtroniumthen what is the difference between strong and strict typing?03:22
prologicrelative strength of the strongness03:22
prologicI guess03:22
prologicit's kinda s silly term ihmo03:22
prologicthere are huge debats over strong and weak typing systems03:23
prologicand whether or not the terms are useful in any sense03:23
prologicbut they are still talked about03:23
jerprologic, i'm talking about information encoded in the compiler04:04
jerthus, i'm referring to types that can be reasoned about at compile time (statically bound)04:04
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prologicOK :)09:37
prologicbut I think I do know the difference :)09:37
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pdurbinI hope you guys have both read these:12:53
pdurbin... about this topic of static vs. dynamic typing12:54
locksoh no, not that steve12:59
pdurbinprologic: for some reason irclogger_ didn't log those lines... I'll try just the urls:13:01
pdurbinpost 1: https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/KaSKeg4vQtz13:01
pdurbinpost 2: https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/iuRbQe6EoiK13:02
pdurbinlocks: yes, that steve: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yegge :)13:02
pdurbinhe was great at http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2008/10/podcast-25/13:03
pdurbinlocks: maybe if you listen to him on that podcast you'll appreciate his writing more. He seems like a really good guy. :)13:06
locksmaybe :P13:07
locksoh13:08
locksyou know how to pick them13:08
pdurbinheh. I've listened to all of those :)13:19
locksWe Shall See13:20
pdurbin:)13:22
locksnow to get up from bed13:24
pdurbinlocks: the transcript: Podcast 025 - https://stackoverflow.fogbugz.com/default.asp?W2579513:38
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lockspdurbin: what did you want me to take from that podcast?20:51
pdurbinlocks: whether or not I should bother listening to it again :)20:52
locksand won't20:53
lockshaha20:53
pdurbinfair enough :)20:53
pdurbinlocks: so you aren't motivated to read throught those two long posts by yegge about static types?20:53
locksafter listening to the podcast? even less20:54
pdurbinwhoops20:55
pdurbinnobody else listen to that podcast ;)20:55
lockshahaha20:55
prologicpdurbin:  I didn't design it to handle unicode :)21:36
prologicI think it ignores such lines ;/21:36
prologicoh no wait I remember :)21:36
prologicthe html generator I'm using (not written by me) doesn't handle unicode21:36
prologicirclog2html21:36
pdurbinah. unicode works fine with ilbot21:38
prologicyeah21:39
prologicirc logger was a quick 10min implementation21:39
prologicI used an off-the-shelf (so to speak) log file to html tool to generate the output21:39
prologicall it needs it a better web interface really21:39
pdurbinyep. I remember21:39
prologicthe logger itself is perfectly fine21:39
pdurbinlocks: are you a regular listener of podcasts? any recommendations?21:41
locksnot really21:41
locksI was listening to a couple of them a while back, but then I dropped21:41
pdurbinok. I'm not aware of an io podcast ;)21:42
locksI listen to ruby rogues, night vale, and the besties (polygon)21:42
prologiconly implementing ii-like languages :)21:43
prologicio*21:43
prologic:)21:43
jerheh21:43
prologichehe21:43
jerio is one of those mind bender escoteric languages21:43
prologicwhich reminds me, I gotta get back int out this year21:43
jeropens up a owrld of possibilities -- like "Oh wait, you can do shit like that?"21:44
prologicnot as bad as brainfuck :)21:44
locksjer: I still have Acute stuff in my bookmarks21:44
lockstrello, workflowy :P21:44
pdurbinruby rogues is good21:44
jer(i.e., exposing the ast as runtime mutable objects)21:44
jerlocks, i still have it on my github -- maybe one day21:44
locksruby rogues is ok21:44
jerlocks, for now, bare metal programming and operating systems are what are piquing my interest these days21:44
jerspecifically on arm21:44
locksjer: go go go21:44
jeri do have the hope, one day, of building my own phone21:44
locks(not as in the language, just cheerleading)21:44
jernot for sale or anything fancy like that, at least i don't think so -- just for my own use21:45
prologicjer:  designing it and getting a manufacturer to build it?21:45
prologicor completing building it from parts, materials?21:45
jerprologic, depends on how small i can make it myself =D21:45
mkroehnertjer: I guess you have seen the Arduino phone stuff, right?21:45
jermkroehnert, yeah doesn't interest me21:45
prologicI've seen several projects succeed in this area21:45
prologicwell maybe not a phone21:45
prologicbut there's the RasbperryPi Tablet21:45
jerwhat interests me is the path from the hardware to the software21:46
prologicPiTab I think it's called21:46
jerprologic, prototyping my OS on a pi21:46
pdurbinfirefoxos phone... ubuntu phone...21:46
prologicagh you want to go that far? :)21:46
jeryup21:46
prologiccould be fun21:46
prologicand painful all at the same time :)21:46
jermostly it's an experiment21:46
jerprologic, oh yeah, i'm on my revision 2 kernel atm21:46
prologicI toyed around with simple x86 and x86 proected mode kernel development quite some years ago now21:47
jerrevision 1 was going to be an exokernel and a bunch of libraries, but it ended up being a halfassed microkernel 21:47
jermuch in the same vein as mac os classic (in terms of things like memory protections, etc.)21:47
jeri just opened up the address space and let you do whatever the hell you wanted (because it was easier)21:47
jer=p21:47
jerno mmu involved21:47
prologic*nods*21:47
jerwell, i have to say, the last time i wrote anything resembling an operating system kernel, it was the late 90s, and i was building it on i38621:48
jernot fun21:48
jeri mean, fun, but not fun21:48
jerbuilding a kernel for arm is really quite lovely21:48
prologichaha21:48
prologicsame time as I was (more or less) :)21:48
prologicI think I managed to get as far as writing a simple shell and some simple apps21:48
prologicthat only interacted with the keyboard/screen21:49
jeri got as far as some basic vga drivers, basic multiprocess support, and a simple filesystem21:49
jeri.e., "usable" for varying definitions of the word =]21:49
prologicheh21:50
prologicit's hard work writing your own OS21:50
prologicmy thoughts are always on; I wonder if there's a way to speed things up considerably21:51
jerbut yeah, right now i have in my rev2 pi kernel, proper memory protection, and bootstrapping the kernel21:51
jeri still have to reimplement tasks (processes) and context switching21:51
jerbut that's relatively straight forward21:51
prologicnice21:51
prologicrunnong on a RPi?21:51
jeryeah21:51
prologiccool21:51
prologicbeen thinking I should use my RPi finally at some stage this year21:52
prologicdo something useful with it21:52
jerprobably what this will turn into is a 3d printer tbh21:52
jerwe're giving our kids a project when they hit about 9/10 ... it's our oldests turn first21:53
prologicahh that'd be cool21:53
prologicsounds challenging21:53
prologicor your kids are really bright :)21:53
jeryou've got $300 to start a business. we'll help you with your plan, but you have to write a plan. figure out what you want to do, who your customers will be, what you need to build your first things, and budget accordingly21:53
jeroh it's one of those things you do so your kids can fail at it. i'd be shocked if they didn't21:54
jerjust hoping that they learn about priorities21:54
jerthat's *MY* goal21:54
prologicahh21:54
jerso my daughter wants to 3d print things21:54
prologicI might steal your very  idea there21:54
prologicmy daughter just turned one yesterday21:54
jer3d printer that's probably best for her isn't shipping yet, and is about $1400. so, gonna offer to supply the parts and we can build one. basically will have her mom helping her negotiate terms =]21:55
prologicheh21:55
jeri'm hoping she gets something about money management out of things too21:56
pdurbinjer: have you played with one of these yet? I have and it's really fun (and pretty cheap): http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/10/meet-sense-3d-systems-cheap-dead-simple-3d-scanner-for-the-masses/21:56
jerbut so long as she's able to see that if she wants to do things 1 month from now, she has to plan for it21:56
jerpdurbin, nope21:56
jerlet me find the one i was looking at21:57
pdurbinmy friend scanned and printed me and my wife: https://twitter.com/philipdurbin/status/40589966815841894421:57
jerhttp://store.makerbot.com/replicator-mini21:57
jerheh21:58
pdurbinjer: ah, but that's a printer, not a scanner21:58
jerright21:58
jershe doesn't want to scan things (yet)21:58
jershe wants to design them, and print them21:58
pdurbinnice21:59
jeri think i can find code though using two cameras to scan objects; maybe21:59
jerso if that does change, i'd hope it wouldn't be too hard to generate a model from that21:59
prologicpdurbin:  that's really cool :)22:00
prologicpdurbin:  what materials was used?22:00
pdurbinprologic: oh, the normal plastic makerbot filament22:01
prologicahh22:01
pdurbinprologic: you can even download me: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:192279 ;)22:01
jerhttps://twitter.com/jtregunna/status/42248870118975488122:02
pdurbinheh22:02
prologicthat's pretty freaky22:04
prologicnot sure that I'd want my 3d model of myself on the net :)22:05
pdurbinmy four year old is bringing a 3d printout of herself to show and tell tomorrow :)22:08
jerprologic, that's relatively benign; imagine your dna sequence online22:10
pdurbinhmm, I did https://www.23andme.com too :/22:10
pdurbinof course, they only sequence part of your dna, and I think only the results (not the raw data) is online22:11
prologicjer:  yeah that's what I mean :)22:15
prologictoday it's 3d printed models22:16
prologictomorrow it's your dna22:16
prologic*sigh*22:16
prologicyou're too trusting of the cloud pdurbin  :)22:16
jerprologic, thus the reason i want to build my own platform22:18
jer=D22:18
prologicof course :)22:19
prologicI would too!22:19
jeri don't think i could scale something up to production size w/o a much bigger team and a much bigger budget; but then i'd have the problem of selling it22:24
jerso i'll just build something that owrks for me, and if i think it's useful, i'll open source the whole lot22:25
jerhardware and software22:25
jeranyone else free to build their own22:25
jer=]22:25
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pdurbinprologic: yeah, I guess22:41
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