IRC Logs for #io Friday, 2014-06-13

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staplerhi19:46
staplerare there any good gui libraries for io20:26
robonerdhi stapler, what do you like about io?20:32
staplersmalltalk is cool, but i feel io is more portable and good for getting things going really fast.20:33
staplerexcellent prototyping as well.20:33
robonerdhow is io more portable?20:33
staplerim not a fan of the whole image-based development20:34
robonerdwhy not?20:35
staplerit feels too bulky for me.20:36
robonerdah20:36
staplerif i just want to write something off the top of my head, i can't really do that.20:36
robonerdhow is io more portable?20:36
stapleri meant that it is more portable than languages similar to io (namely smalltalk.)20:37
robonerdwhat do you mean by portable is what i'm asking20:38
stapleras in20:38
stapleri can toss an io file to a server or a friend to do something20:38
staplerrobonerd, any reason why you're asking me this kind of stuff?20:40
staplerjsut curious.20:40
robonerdlanguages fascinate me, sorry20:44
staplerah!20:46
staplerill admit im getting started in io myself20:46
robonerdit makes sense that it's more simple to send a text file around of io code vs some kind of binary blob of an image system20:47
stapleryes.20:47
staplerare you familiar with the bike example20:47
staplerfor java oop?20:47
robonerdno, what's that?20:47
staplerbasically every java tutorial ever uses this sort of bike object20:48
staplerhttp://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/concepts/class.html20:48
staplerim sure you could do it better, but this is how i did it in io: http://pastie.org/928759820:49
robonerdahh20:49
stapleryoure familiar with Object message, right?20:49
robonerdyea20:49
robonerdlooks good to me20:49
stapler::= is super helpful20:50
robonerdwhat's it do?20:50
staplerso20:50
staplerin io, you don't want to do 20:50
staplerbike1 cadence = 5020:50
stapler::= makes a setter as well20:50
staplerso you would call bike1 setCadence(50)20:51
robonerdwhy is bike1 cadence = 50 not good?20:51
stapleryou do a lot of chaining in io20:52
staplerlet me show you an example20:53
robonerdty!20:53
staplerhttp://pastie.org/928760520:54
staplerwhich one is better?20:54
robonerdwell the latter is shorter, but the former makes it easy to print intermediate values20:55
robonerdso i'm not sure20:55
stapleryou can print intermediate values20:56
stapleryou can stick another print in there if you want20:56
robonerdah, nice20:58
robonerdthe shorter one then20:59
staplerwell20:59
robonerdwell, the single line20:59
stapleri might be wrong actually20:59
staplerif you stick another print in there20:59
staplerand do setGear after that20:59
staplertheres no setGear slot for a Sequence21:00
staplerim sure you could do it all in one line though21:00
stapleragain i'm also new to io21:00
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robonerdyanno i actually tend to do it former style in all of my code21:00
robonerdi do very little chaining21:00
robonerdi find it makes debugging  a hassle21:00
staplerchaining is godly in io tho so21:00
robonerdand lines are cheap21:00
robonerdhehe21:00
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staplernot mine, but heres an irc bot in io https://github.com/imownbey/jim/blob/master/jim.io21:02
staplerit looks complicated, but just read through it21:03
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robonerdlooks nice21:04
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stapleralso pixar uses io in some cases21:21
robonerdwow really?21:25
robonerdhow do you know?21:25
staplerrobonerd, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=198459421:50
staplerrobonerd, http://renderman.pixar.com/resources/current/rms/iceManBracketScript.html21:50
robonerdcool@21:54
robonerd!21:54
staplerping22:47
prologicrobonerd, if languages fascinate you perhaps you'd like to help experiment and continue one I've started? :P http://mio-lang.org/ :)22:56
prologicstapler, you're quite right. sticking another print in there won't work22:59
robonerdi can take a look22:59
prologicthe context will become the result of the print method23:00
prologicyou would need a method on bikel that prints stuff and returns self as the result23:00
prologicso you could keep chaining23:00
prologicstapler, I want an Io-style language to look more like: (IRC Bot Example) --> https://bitbucket.org/circuits/circuits/src/tip/examples/ircbot.py23:06
staplerso23:22
staplerevent based23:22
stapleri hope you know about nodejs23:22
prologicof course I do23:23
prologicit's also very new :P23:23
staplerid say nodejs is actually pretty mature at this point23:24
prologicnot as mature as Python :)23:24
staplerthough nodejs has been designed around being event-driven23:24
prologicanyway my point was I'd love to (and am trying) to design an Io-style lang23:24
prologicwith event-driven approaches23:25
staplerneat, but unfortunately, it doesn't look like my cup of tea.23:25
staplersorry.23:25
prologicwhat doesn't?23:25
staplermio.23:25
prologicmio is just a toy23:25
staplerit looks neat though.23:26
prologicit's (right now) mostly just an Io clone23:26
prologicwritten in Python23:26
prologictrying to port it to RPython atm23:26
staplerpls include setters23:26
robonerdhow does one design a language around being event based? in principle23:26
staplersetters are my life23:26
prologicit differs a little but not too much23:26
prologicwrite them yourself :)23:27
prologictis the Io way :)23:27
stapler::=23:27
prologicset("::=", method( ...))23:27
prologicuse your imagination :P23:27
prologicit's Homiconic23:27
robonerddo you mean homoiconic?23:27
prologicmost of mio's runtime is actually written in mio itself already23:27
prologicin fact more than 50% of it is23:27
staplerwriting boilerplate is annoying and unnecessary23:28
prologicrobonerd, yes :)23:28
pdurbinthankfully, tools help write boilerplate :)23:28
robonerdah23:28
staplerthere is no reason to have to write ::= in23:28
staplerof course its great to be able to override it, though.23:28
prologicrobonerd, re event-driven -- I think of a language with first-class async i/o and eventing23:28
robonerdwhat if you want a read only property?23:29
prologicso you're not writing silly blocking/synchronous crap that doesn't scale23:29
prologicthere is every reason to implement ::= in the lang itself23:29
prologicthat's one of the biggest things about Io/Smalltalk/mio etc23:29
prologicthe fact that the syntax is part of the data structures in the language and exposed to user space23:30
prologicwithout, Io would just be an S-expression language with lots of braces23:30
stapleri'll be back23:30
stapleri'm still moving boxes around, and i'm going to go eat.23:30
stapleri'll be back in an hour or two.23:31
robonerdcya stapler23:31
prologicsame taking my daughter swimming23:31
prologicback later23:31
stapleri would bring you guys with me on my phone, but i already have low battery, so.23:32
staplerno car charger :/.23:32
prologicrobonerd, what do you think of mio-lang so far? :)23:33
prologicI need help porting it to RPython :)23:34
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robonerdi couldn't tell enough from the 2 small examples on the front page23:39
robonerdblocks looked first class23:39
robonerdis that correct?23:39
robonerdblock()23:39
robonerdbut passed as an argument23:40

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