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| stapler | why isn't io more popular | 17:30 |
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| jer | stapler, possibly because it's horribly unsafe in terms of predictability and constraints (it basically has less than 5 constraints) -- as well as marketing | 18:11 |
| jer | and a strong community. the community revives and then fades over long periods of time | 18:11 |
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| stapler | jer, could you say a little more on io being unsafe | 18:15 |
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| jer | stapler, sure | 18:17 |
| jer | Number + := Number getSlot("-") | 18:17 |
| jer | now do any addition | 18:17 |
| jer | even less overt: | 18:17 |
| jer | YourThing _somethingYouCallALot := YourThing getSlot("somethingYouCallALot") clone; YourThing somethingYouCallALot := method(Number + = Number getSlot("-"); call target doMessage(call message clone setName("_somethingYouCallALot"))) | 18:19 |
| jer | then you won't even know, because i can inject that at any time i want | 18:20 |
| jer | i could even hide it in the compiler | 18:20 |
| jer | lightweight profiling what code of yours gets called a lot, and insert some code to covertly mine for bitcoins, or ddos some site | 18:20 |
| jer | Io provides no protections against these sort of injection attacks | 18:20 |
| jer | Io'd be great when narrowly focused and with full disclosure of the injection problems | 18:20 |
| jer | but i would highly not recommend it for running outside of a sandbox that you control, not one that io controls | 18:21 |
| stapler | but how realistic is that, really | 18:24 |
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| prologic | jer: yeah how realistic is that really? :) | 23:55 |
| prologic | The same sorts of arguments could be made of for example Python | 23:55 |
| prologic | or really any dynamic language that has metaprogramming | 23:55 |
| prologic | protecting against malicious devleopers is like protecting against a disgrunteled employee | 23:55 |
| robonerd | how realistic is what? | 23:57 |
| prologic | malicious developers in an organization | 23:58 |
| prologic | deliberatly writing code to break systems or destroy data | 23:58 |
| robonerd | well, very, no? | 23:58 |
| prologic | I honestly wouldn’t have thought so | 23:58 |
| robonerd | what was jer driving at tho as a solution? | 23:58 |
| prologic | that sort of thing generally gets you fired | 23:58 |
| prologic | oh he wasn't | 23:58 |
| robonerd | yea but if you're working for a competitor/foreign nation, you don't care | 23:58 |
| prologic | he was just pointing out some very powerful but also very dangerous features of Io | 23:58 |
| prologic | and other langauges like it | 23:58 |
| robonerd | data as code? | 23:59 |
| prologic | *nods* | 23:59 |
| prologic | or rather | 23:59 |
| prologic | code as data | 23:59 |
| prologic | othe rway around :0 | 23:59 |
| prologic | the fact you can do: | 23:59 |
| robonerd | well code as data is fine imo, but data as code is a problem | 23:59 |
| prologic | Number + := Number getSlot(“-“) | 23:59 |
| prologic | now try to do basic armitmetic involving addition | 23:59 |
| robonerd | right | 23:59 |
| prologic | but my point is still this | 23:59 |
| prologic | if I caught a developer doing this in my codebase | 23:59 |
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