IRC Logs for #io Friday, 2016-02-26

brixenjer: what even is Ruby I don't know how's Idris :)00:27
brixenjer: pretty seriously considering implementing Elm on Rubinius00:28
brixenwhat a breath of fresh air the JS community is lol00:28
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jerbrixen, howdy01:27
jerbrixen, Idris is lovely, i favour it over Haskell01:27
jerthough Haskell has more library support right now, so it tends to win out on new, more serious projects01:27
jeralas i spend most of the day writing Swift/Objective-C for mobile apps, C and a little bit of C++ for embedded software (firmware), and Go for server side stuff. at least, that's work.01:30
jeri do most of my personal stuff in either Go, Idris, Haskell or Rust these days01:30
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pdurbinjer: so Go for work and personal stuff. Sounds good. I've been playing with Go a bit.01:34
jeri'm not a fan of go, i just happen to use it a lot at work so it spills a bit out into my own personal stuff01:35
pdurbinoh :)01:35
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pdurbinjer: why aren't you a fan of Go?01:36
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jerpdurbin, no generic functions and structs primarily, secondarily a minor nitpick in not having to explicitly conform to interfaces01:37
jerand somewhere between those two things, are the lacking of sum types01:38
jerconst just doesn't really supplement01:38
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pdurbinok01:40
jerwhat i really want is a language with first class types, sum and product types, eager evaluation with optional explicit laziness, interactive (not just a handicapped repl like haskell, or idris, but actual playground like things)01:40
jerand you know; C level performance =p01:41
jernot a lot really heh01:41
jerthough i do have a prototype of a type system i find a good start, built01:41
pdurbinso what gets you closest to that?01:41
jeridris01:41
pdurbinah01:42
jeri do without strong interactivity (which is really helpful for experimenting) -- the tactics system is really nice too01:42
pdurbinso the thing idris is lacking is a playground?01:42
jerit's not that i want to be able to write proofs for all my code, but damnit, there's some code that i'd rather trust to a proof than unit tests01:42
jerplaygrounds, performance and libraries, yeah01:43
pdurbinok01:44
jeri've got an implementation of a lc with dependent types built01:44
jerworks well enough, still trying to figure out generic eliminators for arbitrary data types01:44
jerbut other than that it's a good start01:45
jerit's fully interactive atm01:45
jerwhich is good; will make it AOT some time later01:45
jernot really performant though01:45
jerbut definiately faster than io =p01:45
pdurbin:)01:45
jeri dunno i see this project as something that i'll finish probably never, but that i'll sink decades of my time into01:54
jermy retirement project is probably going to be split between sailing and working on this thing =]01:54
pdurbinmmm, sailing. I used to sail at http://www.community-boating.org01:58
jercool02:04
jeri'm figuring in about 20 years i'll be ready to go02:05
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jeri want to build the perfect bluewater cruiser -- a go anywhere boat02:05
jerso i figure i will make 3 or 4 mistakes first02:05
jer=p02:05
pdurbin:)02:06
pdurbinMaybe I'm not picky enough about my languages. I was in a Perl shop first and didn't hate it. Been doing Java professionally for the last three years and it's fine.02:13
jeri don't hate any language, i just hate to think of me using them to solve problems i'm thinking about at the time =p02:19
pdurbinI've been enjoying Go because it's so much faster than something I first wrote in Ruby. And I like gofmt a lot.02:23
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PEW_hello04:34
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jerpdurbin, i used to use ruby a lot to prototype things, just because i knew it so well, it has decent interactivity support, and was reasonable, performance wise given what it is.04:36
jerbut i'm not doing that anymore04:37
jerin fact, i've not written any ruby code in a few weeks, and don't plan on writing any outside of work if i have to, for the forseeable future.04:37
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pdurbinjer: but you still prototype things right? which language do you use for this?11:32
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jerpdurbin, depends. lately i've been using a lot of go for server side prototyping; and swift for user side prototyping14:22
pdurbinjer: do you like Swift in general? A friend of mine seems to really enjoy it. He never really spent much time using Objective C.14:27
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jerpdurbin, it's ok14:44
jeri'm far more productive in objc, just by sheer time spent using it -- well over 20 years now14:44
jeri'm not a fan of swiftc's error reporting, it's often less than adequate; debugger support isn't quite up to objc level's which can lead you to writing print statements in your code instead14:45
jernot a fan of swift's error handling (note the difference to reporting), would much rather have had an Either type that's returned where the Left channel points at your error, Right at your value14:45
jerbecause then an implementation of bind on Either would let us strip out the error or propogate it14:45
jerachieves the same thing as their try/catch bit (which isn't exceptions) but keeps it type safe14:46
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pdurbinjer: you're a tough man to please. But in a good way. You're a good thinker. :)15:19
jerit's a blessing and a curse. i'm always trying to think of ways to solve a problem with a language feature i don't like15:20
jerit's like colour theory or typesetting -- for instance, once you know about kerning, you can't unsee when type is offset.15:21
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pdurbinyeah. and yet this book doesn't make me appreciate music less. quite the opposite: http://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/john-powell/how-music-works/9780316098311/17:17
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